Welcome to the Knicks Iman Shumpert

[mugzi]

What makes u think Billups, Shump can even land cp3?

We dont have the assets to trade 4 him, thats a fact. FA or bust,

[GONYK]

What makes u think Billups, Shump can even land cp3?

We dont have the assets to trade 4 him, thats a fact. FA or bust,

If Paul pulls a Melo, what choice does NO have outside of taking whatever we have to offer?

[Falstaffxx]

What makes u think Billups, Shump can even land cp3?

We dont have the assets to trade 4 him, thats a fact. FA or bust,

If Paul pulls a Melo, what choice does NO have outside of taking whatever we have to offer?

I guess a major factor will be how big the "resign-with-your-old-team-for-more-money" incentives in the new CBA are. If they are big, then Paul will be more motivated to insist on a trade. It could lead to another Carmelo situation where the player is willing to consider going to a team that isn't his first choice in order to ensure that a trade happens. On the other hand, maybe he doesn't care that much about insuring he gets those incentives and will just be willing to wait for free agency in order to play with Carmelo. Who knows?

[GONYK]

What makes u think Billups, Shump can even land cp3?

We dont have the assets to trade 4 him, thats a fact. FA or bust,

If Paul pulls a Melo, what choice does NO have outside of taking whatever we have to offer?

I guess a major factor will be how big the "resign-with-your-old-team-for-more-money" incentives in the new CBA are. If they are big, then Paul will be more motivated to insist on a trade. It could lead to another Carmelo situation where the player is willing to consider going to a team that isn't his first choice in order to ensure that a trade happens. On the other hand, maybe he doesn't care that much about insuring he gets those incentives and will just be willing to wait for free agency in order to play with Carmelo. Who knows?

That's a very good point, but either way, I doubt NO lets Paul hit FA and risk losing the only valuable thing about the entire franchise for nothing. My assumption is that they will declare open season on Paul once he declines an extension.

[Falstaffxx]

Now that I think about it, wouldn't it be counter-productive for the league to insist on a clause in the new CBA that provides big incentives to resign with your old team, but then allow those incentives to be applied to sign-and-trades? That would just cause a lot of trade demands, wouldn't it?

I'm guessing if they do put those incentives in, players will only be able to get them if they are actually staying with the team. If that's the case, Paul would have to choose between either staying with NO for more money, or signing with the Knicks in free agency. I think in that scenario there would be a reasonable chance he'd wait and sign with the Knicks.

[GONYK]

Now that I think about it, wouldn't it be counter-productive for the league to insist on a clause in the new CBA that provides big incentives to resign with your old team, but then allow those incentives to be applied to sign-and-trades? That would just cause a lot of trade demands, wouldn't it?

I'm guessing if they do put those incentives in, players will only be able to get them if they are actually staying with the team. If that's the case, Paul would have to choose between either staying with NO for more money, or signing with the Knicks in free agency. I think in that scenario there would be a reasonable chance he'd wait and sign with the Knicks.

Agreed. Under those circumstances FA would be the most likely option.

At the same time though, how would they add a clause like that without doing away with the S&T altogether?

[Falstaffxx]

Now that I think about it, wouldn't it be counter-productive for the league to insist on a clause in the new CBA that provides big incentives to resign with your old team, but then allow those incentives to be applied to sign-and-trades? That would just cause a lot of trade demands, wouldn't it?

I'm guessing if they do put those incentives in, players will only be able to get them if they are actually staying with the team. If that's the case, Paul would have to choose between either staying with NO for more money, or signing with the Knicks in free agency. I think in that scenario there would be a reasonable chance he'd wait and sign with the Knicks.

Agreed. Under those circumstances FA would be the most likely option.

At the same time though, how would they add a clause like that without doing away with the S&T altogether?

You're probably right, unless they set it up so that teams can go over the cap to give bonus money that you get at the end of each season if you were with that team for a certain # of years.

[melo mvp 15]

The whole CP thing depends 100% on the new CBA.

Think about some CBA post-lockout scenarios:
1. CBA adds some franchise tag (unlikely): Paul doesn't leave New Orleans.
2. CBA adds some very high incentive ($) to re-sign (very likely): Raises Paul's value and gives N.O. much more leverage.
3. CBA adds a low cap (hard or soft) (around $45-55 mil) (somewhat likely): Makes Paul to NY hard because of lack of trade assets and not enough cap space to sign him with major paycut
4. CBA adds a higher cap (most likely hard or semi-hard) (likely): Makes Paul to NY likely via free agency, which also improves chances of trade because of inevitability and NO wanting to get something.
5. CBA changes trade rules (unknown at this point): Could end up allowing more flexibility for us to pull of a trade where we take back more money (like Okafor and/or Ariza) (also depends on cap)
6. CBA eliminates sign and trades (very possible): Adds more incentive for NO to trade Paul before off-season.
7. CBA adds an amnesty clause (extremely likely): New Orleans gets to shed a contract like Ariza or Okafor. Means Paul likely less happy and New Orleans doesn't need to dump much more salary.

It's very possible we see a combination of these scenarios. I'd guess 2, 4, 5 and 6 all come true.
And of course it all depends on Paul. If he wants to come here, he'll most likely come here.

[GONYK]

The whole CP thing depends 100% on the new CBA.

Think about some CBA post-lockout scenarios:
1. CBA adds some franchise tag (unlikely): Paul doesn't leave New Orleans.
2. CBA adds some very high incentive ($) to re-sign (very likely): Raises Paul's value and gives N.O. much more leverage.
3. CBA adds a low cap (hard or soft) (around $45-55 mil) (somewhat likely): Makes Paul to NY hard because of lack of trade assets and not enough cap space to sign him with major paycut
4. CBA adds a higher cap (most likely hard or semi-hard) (likely): Makes Paul to NY likely via free agency, which also improves chances of trade because of inevitability and NO wanting to get something.
5. CBA changes trade rules (unknown at this point): Could end up allowing more flexibility for us to pull of a trade where we take back more money (like Okafor and/or Ariza) (also depends on cap)
6. CBA eliminates sign and trades (very possible): Adds more incentive for NO to trade Paul before off-season.
7. CBA adds an amnesty clause (extremely likely): New Orleans gets to shed a contract like Ariza or Okafor. Means Paul likely less happy and New Orleans doesn't need to dump much more salary.

It's very possible we see a combination of these scenarios. I'd guess 2, 4, 5 and 6 all come true.
And of course it all depends on Paul. If he wants to come here, he'll most likely come here.

In all seriousness though, that was a pretty thorough breakdown. Like you said, CP3's desire to play here must outweigh everything else if we have are to have a shot at him.

[NoMoreThrees]

I cant see paul getting traded here. We got nothing. We got no picks. We got old broken players expiring. Turiaf Billups. We got what. 2 months good play six months crap play fields. Havent play yet harrelson and shumperts. Douglas who hasnt done any better since day we got him. If you new orleans why you take on garbage? Better off just starting over. Why take on like ten million of unknown or not good players when you better off just having cap space? Paul is gunna walk. But it wont be here if the cba doesnt allow it with a new lower hard cap. Cant see paul taking tons less money just to play here. Reality folks reality.

[NoMoreThrees]

oh and look what we had to give for melo. You guys saying paul is a max guy like melo. But somehow we get paul for total garbage when we had to pay through the nose to get melo? Nah not happen.

[koogiking]

The difference between the paul situation and the Melo situation was that the CBA . We won't have any issues of Paul worrying about losing money in the new CBA, so the hornets don't have much leverage

[GONYK]

oh and look what we had to give for melo. You guys saying paul is a max guy like melo. But somehow we get paul for total garbage when we had to pay through the nose to get melo? Nah not happen.

What does Melo have to do with Paul? The circumstances around the situations are completely different.

[Rasho Brezec]

The difference between the paul situation and the Melo situation was that the CBA . We won't have any issues of Paul worrying about losing money in the new CBA, so the hornets don't have much leverage

There's just as good a chance that the new CBA makes it almost impossible to trade for Paul.

[NYman15]

I've always said it depends on the CBA. I have always felt that if they can have an opportunity to somehow get Paul, he will come. I do think in the end, assuming the new CBA doesn't radically change things, he ends up a Knick. For a variety of reasons. The one good thing about the lockout is if it last all year, he becomes a free agent with no chance NO can trade him and he can walk for free.

[GONYK]

The difference between the paul situation and the Melo situation was that the CBA . We won't have any issues of Paul worrying about losing money in the new CBA, so the hornets don't have much leverage

There's just as good a chance that the new CBA makes it almost impossible to trade for Paul.

Do you have any thoughts on how the new CBA could do that?

[Rasho Brezec]

A franchise tag.

[Falstaffxx]

A franchise tag.

I find that unlikely. Giving up the right to be a free-agent at the end of your contract is one of the last things I'd expect the players to agree to. In my opinion there's a much smaller chance of that happening than a scenario in which New Orleans is forced to either trade him for less than they'd like or lose him in free agency.

[GONYK]

A franchise tag.

So outside of that, which has such a little possibility of happening that it really isn't worthy of contemplation, the Knicks will have a chance to acquire Paul?

[Falstaffxx]

In any event, there clearly is a scenario in which Shumpert becomes a valuable trade piece in a Paul trade - ie, he plays well and shows a lot of potential. More chance of that happening than a franchise tag imo.

Of course, if Shumpert does turn out to be a valuable prospect, I'd course prefer that Paul simply signed with us and we keep everybody.