Whats more important to build a Championship team

[JerkyWay]

Can't really say what's more important. Championship teams usually have both. Not always an anchor on D, but at least good two-way center.
90s Bulls are an exception, but they still used to have two or three All-Defensive First Team members.
The only championship team without an all-time great go-to-guy I can think of are 2004 Pistons.

I think both factors are equally important. If I'd have to pick one of them to save my life, I'd go with 7'0'' defensive anchor.

BTW. There's no way 20 PPG scorer is a role player. Never. For me, it's hard to think of any 15 PPG scorer who's a role player. Maybe Bobby Jones, but it's debatable whether he's a role player. Iguodala is probably the closest that can match the criterion.

[ThaRegul8r]

BTW. There's no way 20 PPG scorer is a role player. Never. For me, it's hard to think of any 15 PPG scorer who's a role player. Maybe Bobby Jones, but it's debatable whether he's a role player. Iguodala is probably the closest that can match the criterion.

So a player can't be a role player if that "role" is to score...

[Dipper 13]

So a player can't be a role player if that "role" is to score...

Sarasota Herald-Tribune - Jan 8, 1960

"Paid To Score"

Retorts Wilt:

"People just don't understand the problems of players like Jack Twyman (Cincinnati's league leading scorer) and myself. We have to let down on some phases of the game in order to score. We are paid to score. If we don't get out 30-35 points a game there is a good chance our team will lose."

"Take Russell for example. He's a great defensive player because he doesn't have to worry about scoring. His assignment is to get the rebound and block as many shots as he can. Boston has plenty of scorers. If Russell had to score he could average 25 points or more a game easy."'



Anchorage Daily News - Jan 9, 1982

[Die93]

Kobe being a role player in 2000, its 34dayz whats new....

[34Dayz]

Hey its my opinion that he was a Roleplayer in 00, he didnt have the role of a star or a robin yet he was just a good roleplayer developing under Shaq and Phil just because his main ability was to "score" instead of score and pass like a Parker does not mean he had a different role, many teams have had Roleplayers whos main role was to score.

Obviously from 01 on Kobe was no longer a roleplayer but from 97-00 he was.

If Smush would have been given 5-10 more minutes in 06 he would have averaged 15/5/5 is he a Star too? I doubt he'd be given that designation.

Does having one or two "star type" games really elevate you out of your normal role if the rest of your games seem "role player" like? I don't think so.

[Vincent 666]

Hey its my opinion that he was a Roleplayer in 00, he didnt have the role of a star or a robin yet he was just a good roleplayer developing under Shaq and Phil just because his main ability was to "score" instead of score and pass like a Parker does not mean he had a different role, many teams have had Roleplayers whos main role was to score.

Did you seriously watch those games?

One of Kobes roles on those teams was as a facilitator.......especially in the early 2000s. He was usually the guy who got the team into the offense on the perimeter (the role Odom has now). Bryant was the main facilitator and passer on those teams. Had numerous passes to teammates for game winning shots during their run.

When Shaq left, it allowed Kobe to move off the ball more and position himself in better positions to score as oppose to starting the offense on the perimeter (3 point area) when he played with Oneal.

[ThaRegul8r]

Hey its my opinion that he was a Roleplayer in 00

I hate when people pull the opinion card (this in general, not specifically directed at you; you just happened to say it, thus triggering a pet peeve). It's a cop out. One person says, "it's my opinion" x, someone else says "it's my opinion" y, and then you're at an impasse.

[Die93]

fisher is a role player, robert horry is a role player

A role player isnt a 22 to 25 PPG scorer whos the best perimter defender in the NBA capably of scoring 30 PPG any night. Thats an allstar

The nerve of you to compare shaq 00' to hakeem 94'/duncan 03' or even dirk 11' shows your shaq Dickriding holds no bounds.

Troll on

[34Dayz]

00 Shaq, 94 Hakeem and 03 Duncan are all in the same class, they all won while being the only "Star" on their teams. Shaq had an Elite Roleplayer in Bryant who was on "the verge of stardom" I personally don't think he acheived it that season.

I actually think Hakeems 94 cast was the weakest of the 3 while Shaq and Duncans were about the same.

[Die93]

He WAS an allstar that year, its indisputible

2000 Kobe

all NBA second team
All NBA Defensive 1st team
22.5PPG/4.9APG/6.3 RPG
25/11/7/4 in game 7 against the Blazers
If thats not an allstar, idk what is

2000 Kobe>Anyone Duncan/hakeem/Dirk had those particular years, and its not even close

You dont have to underrate kobe to prop up shaq, his 00 is better then all those years but he damn shore didnt win the way they did.... which is with role players and no all stars

[34Dayz]

All-NBA awards are rubbish they don't mean anything to me.

I don't think Kobe did enough that year to be considered a Star.

[Die93]

All-NBA awards are rubbish they don't mean anything to me.

I don't think Kobe did enough that year to be considered a Star.

Because they dont fit your agenda?

how was he not an ALL star?(he made the team too)

He was 23 PPG scorer with elite defense, how is that not an all star? Do you even know what that term means?

Im not saying a SUPERSTAR but not an all star?

Who on the 03'spurs/94'Rockets/11'Mavs was as good as 00' Kobe? They didnt have a 25 PPG scorer(potential 30 PPG) with elite defense on thier teams.

[34Dayz]

I think the Combo of TP @ Ginobli was about equal to 00 Bryant.

Like Bryant Parker had a better RS then his PS 16/6 and "like Bryant" had a few big games in the PS.

I think Bryant was better but if you combine TP and Ginobli I think its about equal.

The combined production was better then Bryants.

Giniboli wasn't an elite scorer yet but he was giving SA a consistent 10-15 points with some 20 point games and around 4-5 assists a game and elite defense in the PS.

[Die93]

I think the Combo of TP @ Ginobli was about equal to 00 Bryant.

Like Bryant Parker had a better RS then his PS 16/6 and "like Bryant" had a few big games in the PS.

I think Bryant was better but if you combine TP and Ginobli I think its about equal.

The combined production was better then Bryants.

Giniboli wasn't an elite scorer yet but he was giving SA a consistent 10-15 points with some 20 point games and around 4-5 assists a game and elite defense in the PS.

they werent better then bryant thats my ppoint 00 kobe>>>>>any 2nd option on those teams
ginobli and parker were both basically rookies while kobe was one of the best guards in the NBA
Both of them werent capable of taking over games like bryant was, they were role players

How was he not an all star again?

Since when is 22/6/4 with elite defense not an all star?

[34Dayz]

Maybe if he averaged 22/6/4 in the PS and didn't get injured I'd consider it a star season but since he only averaged 19/4 and was injured in the Finals I demote that season to
"Elite Roleplayer" status.

If you want to argue Shaq's "2nd option" was better then Duncans I'd probably agree with you but Shaqs team wasn't better then Duncans who had an emerging star in Parker, Ginobili who was a great playmaker/defender and would routinely give 10-20 points and lets not forget DRob was on that team to.

I dont have any issue with you thinking he was a Star that season but I dont think he was a Star from 97-00 he just had "Star potential" 01 was his breakout year.

[Die93]

I forgot to answer the thread ill ALWAYS take the go to scorer. Its easy to find a decent defensive center (tyson chandler for example) to protect the paint while true go to scorers are rare.

He was injured in the finals and he played well in game 4 and showed flashes of the clutch player hed later become plus his D was great.

Dirk got bounced in the first rd of 2007 and was horrible against the warriors doesn that mean he wasnt an all star that season?

[34Dayz]

Dirk was the MVP in the previous season and had been his teams best player/go to scorer for a number of years so I don't think its comparable.

If he was in Bryants position and played the way he did in 07 then yea I'd probably consider him a Elite Roleplayer also.

[BattleTested]

Maybe if he averaged 22/6/4 in the PS and didn't get injured I'd consider it a star season but since he only averaged 19/4 and was injured in the Finals I demote that season to
"Elite Roleplayer" status.

I guess injuries are something only role players experience. Who knew. I guess Magic Johnson was a role player in 89, huh? And Duncan in 2000, he couldn't have been more than an "Elite Roleplayer."

Oh and I don't know if your stats are wrong, or you're tweaking them to support your viewpoint, but Kobe averaged 21.1/4.5 in the 2000 playoffs, not 19/4.

Also, it's laughable that you'd compare the "big games" that Tony Parker had in the 03 PS to the ones Kobe had in 2000. Kobe had had 3 32+ scoring games by the 4th game of the playoffs. I doubt Parker did that once. Nor did he score a GW over an all NBA first team defender like Kobe did over Jason Kidd in the Suns series. Nor did he put up 25/7/7 in a pivotal Game 3 win like Kobe did against the Blazers to reclaim control of the series, a game that Kobe sealed with an assist-block sequence. Or what about his back to back 33/6 - 25/11/7 games to close that series out? (also had 7 blocks and 4 steals between the two games.) Or that 28/5/4 game he had in the Finals to put the Pacers in a 3-1 hole, when he scored 4 straight baskets down the stretch as Shaq fouled out, on that same badly sprained ankle that apparently made him a role player. Did Tony Parker have a lot of games like that?

Come on man. At least pretend to be reasonable.

[34Dayz]

Kobe really only closed out one game for the 00 Lakers and although he had a 1-3 nice games outside of the 1st round I dont think thats enough to consider him a star especially since he barely played on the most important stage of all (the Finals).

Again I said that 00Kobe was better then 03 Parker but the difference between 00 Kobe and 03Parker + Ginobili is not much if any at all and Duncans overall supporting cast was just as good as Shaqs was.

[Shot Clock]

Some people are saying "1st option"

but how many teams in recent history have won with a 1st option and no defensive anchor(s).

Maybe the 90's bulls? but they had Gilmore/Rodman.

Gilmore?

lol @ overrating Hardaway, Penny was a decent SG but he isn't even on Drexlers Tier who outplayed Penny thoroughly in the 95 Finals, let alone Kobe or Wade's.

Outplayed? Penny a SG?

I'd be happy with 25.5p/4.8r/8a from my PG any day.

Penny had 2 good seasons next to Shaq and then a bunch of terrible ones after Oneal jumped to LA.

Penny got injured. Period


For a guy who likes to "LOL@" people you sure provide some laughs yourself.