Whats more important to build a Championship team

[34Dayz]

Penny, like Kobe and Wade were nobodys until they teamed up with Shaq then they became these amazing players.

Shaq is the greatest crafter of HOF SG's the league has ever seen.

He is the Crafter! (new nickname) lol

[Die93]

They all wouldve been great players without shaq the notion that shaq "made" them is ridiculous. Plus Wade and Kobe have been perfectly fine without him.

And again by THAT logic Lebron wasnt a star this year because he didnt play well in the fnals am i right? Your going around in circles?

[Die93]

Maybe if he averaged 22/6/4 in the PS and didn't get injured I'd consider it a star season but since he only averaged 19/4 and was injured in the Finals I demote that season to
"Elite Roleplayer" status.

I guess injuries are something only role players experience. Who knew. I guess Magic Johnson was a role player in 89, huh? And Duncan in 2000, he couldn't have been more than an "Elite Roleplayer."

Oh and I don't know if your stats are wrong, or you're tweaking them to support your viewpoint, but Kobe averaged 21.1/4.5 in the 2000 playoffs, not 19/4.

Also, it's laughable that you'd compare the "big games" that Tony Parker had in the 03 PS to the ones Kobe had in 2000. Kobe had had 3 32+ scoring games by the 4th game of the playoffs. I doubt Parker did that once. Nor did he score a GW over an all NBA first team defender like Kobe did over Jason Kidd in the Suns series. Nor did he put up 25/7/7 in a pivotal Game 3 win like Kobe did against the Blazers to reclaim control of the series, a game that Kobe sealed with an assist-block sequence. Or what about his back to back 33/6 - 25/11/7 games to close that series out? (also had 7 blocks and 4 steals between the two games.) Or that 28/5/4 game he had in the Finals to put the Pacers in a 3-1 hole, when he scored 4 straight baskets down the stretch as Shaq fouled out, on that same badly sprained ankle that apparently made him a role player. Did Tony Parker have a lot of games like that?

Come on man. At least pretend to be reasonable.

This 2003 duncan would kill for 2000 Kobe

[JordansBulls]

Anyone can score. Few can anchor. Gotta go with with D.

What if your anchor is Mutombo and your 1st option?

If your 1st option is Mutombo you need to be fired as a head coach.

My point. See 1994 Nuggets

[JerkyWay]

BTW. There's no way 20 PPG scorer is a role player. Never. For me, it's hard to think of any 15 PPG scorer who's a role player. Maybe Bobby Jones, but it's debatable whether he's a role player. Iguodala is probably the closest that can match the criterion.

So a player can't be a role player if that "role" is to score...

Then he's not a role player. Role players aren't allowed to take enough shots to average 20 PPG. Even theoretically, it's impossible. 20 point scorer = star player.
Show my one player who ever averaged 20 PPG while being a role player...You can't do it.

Of course, there are spot-up shooters who are meant to be a scorers...But that's it. One example - Jamal Crawford. Do you consider him a role player?

[Doormatt]

Penny, like Kobe and Wade were nobodys until they teamed up with Shaq then they became these amazing players.

Shaq is the greatest crafter of HOF SG's the league has ever seen.

He is the Crafter! (new nickname) lol

This was a joke post... right?

[jaypo]

Penny, like Kobe and Wade were nobodys until they teamed up with Shaq then they became these amazing players.

Shaq is the greatest crafter of HOF SG's the league has ever seen.

He is the Crafter! (new nickname) lol

This was a joke post... right?

It is a little extreme, but it holds some merit. Those players benefitted from the defensive attention that Shaq drew and from the abiltiy of Shaq to dictate the defense and create openings for his teammates. Of course, they were great talented players in their own right. But having that kind of player as your centerpiece allows you to perfect your game while not having to worry about swarming defenses. Mentally, this helps your development. Case and point- after Shaq left, Penny put up some good numbers, but eventually broke down physically and mentally. When interviewed later in his career, he admitted that he couldn't handle the pressure that Shaq's vacancy put on his shoulders, and he broke down physically and mentally because of it. The 2 years after Shaq left where Kobe was left with Kwame Brown at center, he failed to make the playoffs and quit on his team in the playoffs because he realized he couldn't do it alone. (Which is why he threatened the team to get better players around him- and voila, Pau Gasol). Wade was different. He did very well his 1st year in the league. And when paired with Shaq, they immediately became contenders and champions. And after Shaq left, Wade needed 2 of the top 5 players in the league at his side to make it back to the finals (and lost).

So for all the talk about "Shaq needing elite wings" at his side, I counter with "they wouldn't be ELITE WINGS" without Shaq at their sides in the first place. You basically had to retool the entire teams after Shaq left to make them competitive (even with Kobe in his prime). When Shaq arrived on the Lakers and Heat, they immediately became contenders. And when he left them (even though they still had the ELITE WINGS), they missed the playoffs. That's not a coincidence.