Lawrie up, Snider down - confirmed

[BigLeagueChew]

10 at bats :wink:

[Michael Bradley]

Maybe AA wants to bring Snider up after a few weeks of Lawrie ABs, then see what Snider has

There may be a better chance of Snider hitting well with a few weeks of AAA then a month of MLB than 2 full months of the MLB at this point.

We keep doing that very same thing, though. We demote him, he mashes, we call him back up, and the second his production wanes we demote him again. Now we're basically out of time; I'd be somewhat surprised if Snider was in the organization come next season (assuming that we add a power bat and try to compete), and someone is going to get a very young and very talented hitter for next to nothing.

When has AA ever sold low on a player? The closest was Wallace, but turns out AA sold at exactly the right time (Wallace's value has gone down significantly since the trade) and got a better player in return. Every other trade, from trading Brandon League, Alex Gonzalez, Shaun Marcum, Vernon Wells, Frasor/Dotel/Rzep/Stewart, etc, all involved trading guys who were either performing at or above their talent level, or still young enough to present upside (League).

If Snider is traded, I'm not convinced it will be for 50 cents on the dollar. This isn't the JP Ricciardi era anymore.

[distracted]

When has AA ever sold low on a player? The closest was Wallace, but turns out AA sold at exactly the right time (Wallace's value has gone down significantly since the trade) and got a better player in return. Every other trade, from trading Brandon League, Alex Gonzalez, Shaun Marcum, Vernon Wells, Frasor/Dotel/Rzep/Stewart, etc, all involved trading guys who were either performing at or above their talent level, or still young enough to present upside (League).

If Snider is traded, I'm not convinced it will be for 50 cents on the dollar. This isn't the JP Ricciardi era anymore.

I agree. Even though this is a low point for Snider, it's only a bad thing trading him if we don't get a good return.

And if Zach Stewart gets us Rasmus, does Snider get us Stratsburg

[Strav]

Maybe AA wants to bring Snider up after a few weeks of Lawrie ABs, then see what Snider has

There may be a better chance of Snider hitting well with a few weeks of AAA then a month of MLB than 2 full months of the MLB at this point.

We keep doing that very same thing, though. We demote him, he mashes, we call him back up, and the second his production wanes we demote him again. Now we're basically out of time; I'd be somewhat surprised if Snider was in the organization come next season (assuming that we add a power bat and try to compete), and someone is going to get a very young and very talented hitter for next to nothing.

When has AA ever sold low on a player? The closest was Wallace, but turns out AA sold at exactly the right time (Wallace's value has gone down significantly since the trade) and got a better player in return. Every other trade, from trading Brandon League, Alex Gonzalez, Shaun Marcum, Vernon Wells, Frasor/Dotel/Rzep/Stewart, etc, all involved trading guys who were either performing at or above their talent level, or still young enough to present upside (League).

If Snider is traded, I'm not convinced it will be for 50 cents on the dollar. This isn't the JP Ricciardi era anymore.

Exactly - I don't know how people get the impression that Snider's value is any less than it was when he was 19? He's still 23, has shown flashes, and has big league experience. He's still very valuable to the right team, and will fetch a very good player(s) in return.

[spykelee]

I thought AA's logic was fair enough.

EE has been unbelieveable the last month and half or so... and yes im aware that he's a streky player... nonetheless, the jays hold an option on him for next season, and are using the rest of this season as an evaluation moving forward. Should EE continue hitting reasonably well, I wouldn't be too upset to take a flyer on him next season for 3.5 million...

So it comes down to Travis Snider and Thames. They've had roughly the same amount of at bats this year, and production wise, Thames has just been a bit better. Which means, rightly or wrongly, in this results driven league, Thames wins. AA also alluded to Adam Lind at one point having this same sort of thing happen to him. Sometimes guy's need a few trips down and back to really get the right idea. I know some people will argue that he can't get the idea anywhere but at the show, and there is a degree of truth to that. But I also believe that players need to earn there spot at that level. There's few situations where production aside, guys just go up day in day out hacking away, continuing to struggle. When there's a spot open on the roster, Snider's the first guy back.

I won't lie, I did find it a bit odd to hear it was him, no doubt. But I also don't think it's some kind of massive blunder and oversight by the Jays. I think it woulda been tough to Look Thames in the eye, and tell him that Snider's outplayed him... given that, the answer may not be popular, but it is obvious...

[Schad]

Exactly - I don't know how people get the impression that Snider's value is any less than it was when he was 19? He's still 23, has shown flashes, and has big league experience. He's still very valuable to the right team, and will fetch a very good player(s) in return.

Again, his value is greatly diminished because he is out of options as of next year. I'm not saying that he has none, but teams aren't going to value his as a top prospect anymore, they're going to look at him as a kid who has bounced up and down between AAA and the majors, and who has exactly one chance left; as of next year, he cannot be sent down without going on waivers.

I don't see AA selling low, but his hand is likely to be forced here. If he isn't traded in the off-season, we basically have to stash him in AAA next season and wait for someone to take him off our hands. I'm not saying that it won't happen, because strange things happen in baseball trades, but it would take an exceedingly dumb GM to trade a major asset for a guy who is basically a one-off at this point.

EE has been unbelieveable the last month and half or so... and yes im aware that he's a streky player... nonetheless, the jays hold an option on him for next season, and are using the rest of this season as an evaluation moving forward. Should EE continue hitting reasonably well, I wouldn't be too upset to take a flyer on him next season for 3.5 million...

Encarnacion can only DH at this point, and his hitting simply isn't good enough to be the DH on a team that has visions of competing.

I won't lie, I did find it a bit odd to hear it was him, no doubt. But I also don't think it's some kind of massive blunder and oversight by the Jays. I think it woulda been tough to Look Thames in the eye, and tell him that Snider's outplayed him... given that, the answer may not be popular, but it is obvious...

It was obvious: DFA Teahen.

[There There]

I won't lie, I did find it a bit odd to hear it was him, no doubt. But I also don't think it's some kind of massive blunder and oversight by the Jays. I think it woulda been tough to Look Thames in the eye, and tell him that Snider's outplayed him... given that, the answer may not be popular, but it is obvious...

As Schad mentioned, it was obvious, DFA Teahen.

Just because AA and Farrell are spouting this nonsense about Thames outplaying Snider, does not make it true.

Snider was very good during the two weeks following his return. And in the two weeks since, he has been very bad.

But Thames has been nearly just as bad over the past two weeks as well.

Neither player deserves to be sent down for what amounts to a slump. Both should be playing everyday, throughout the rest of the season, regardless of their performance. And E5's hot streak should not have been enough to defer from that plan.

Anthopolous said yesterday that if this decision had to be made a month ago, E5 would have been the odd man out.

So because E5, who has been ridiculously streaky his entire career, has one great month, Snider is back on the outside looking in ? Please tell me where the **** sense is in that ?

And if performance matters that **** much in a non-contending season, then why the **** am I forced to watch Aaron **** Hill piss all over the **** field game in and game out.

[Trilogy]

Apparently Snider still has an option year left. Most of his time in the minors in 2010 was under rehab and he didn't qualify for enough games down there outside of that to burn an option year. At least that's how I understand it.

Good news on that front.

[Schad]

Apparently Snider still has an option year left. Most of his time in the minors in 2010 was under rehab and he didn't qualify for enough games down there outside of that to burn an option year. At least that's how I understand it.

Good news on that front.

That does change things. I've spent a bit of time poking around, and here's the timeline:

June 30th - sent on rehab assignment to the GCL (and then later, multiple other teams). Allowed a maximum of 20 days.

July 17th - optioned to Double-A. Allowed a maximum of 20 days to avoid burning an option.

July 30th - recalled from the minors.


If that's accurate (and AA's suggestion pretty much guarantees that it is), he will still have an option year remaining. I still don't like the move, but we aren't as **** as regards his trade value.

[SharoneWright]

Seriously, now he's got another year to get poked and jabbed by AAA coaches...

If I'm AA, I apologize to the kid, tell him its a numbers thing, and fly him to The Caymans for a 2-week vacation. WTH is he gonna do in Vegas in August and who even cares? Tell him he can beat out Thames next year or that the DH spot is his when EE goes. Tell him to swing however he wants and we'll see you in Dunedin. The rest is a friggin waste of time.

[bongmarley]

2009 - 241 ab
2010 - 298 ab
2011 - 187 ab

he's gotten a fair shake. Just because he gets sent down or there is a break in between his ab's doesnt mean he stars back at 0

[spykelee]

It was obvious: DFA Teahen.

haha i forgot teahan was even still on the team... ya woulda made sense to dfa him. of course that would have left us with 5 outfielders. Obviously Davis sits, but then one of Thames or Snider are always sitting. Perhaps regular at bats was the deciding factor.

[JoeyBats]

The jays did the same thing to adam lind a couple years back... Hopefully snider can turn it around like lind did

This. JPR jerked around Lind in a similar way, and then Lind had that break out season because he was scared they would send him back down again if he struggled. Snider has to have the same fear and start to produce at the majors.

[Schad]

It was obvious: DFA Teahen.

haha i forgot teahan was even still on the team... ya woulda made sense to dfa him. of course that would have left us with 5 outfielders. Obviously Davis sits, but then one of Thames or Snider are always sitting. Perhaps regular at bats was the deciding factor.

They shouldn't be sitting in that scenario. One plays left field, the other DHs against right-handed pitching, while E5 sits. Against lefties, sit one of them, probably Snider. Means that they still play at least 75% of the time.