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Bedard traded to Boston

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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#41 » by TTown » Sun Aug 7, 2011 4:49 pm

Beavan was dealin', we scored 4 of our 5 runs with two outs, Robinson smashed his first career HR. Fun game.

Santana tonight, who's been the best pitcher in baseball the last two months. We counter with Felix.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#42 » by sharkz » Sun Aug 7, 2011 6:11 pm

If we were judging by our offense we haven't got a prayer tonight, but I'm learning to not assume these things with this team. After all, who else could lose 17 straight then beat CC Sabathia to snap it?

And we have Felix on the mound. Wells should be back out there tonight. And hopefully Robinson will play also. Right now seeing our kids is the most entertaining part of being a Mariners fan.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#43 » by jumanji » Sun Aug 7, 2011 6:24 pm

sharkz wrote:If we were judging by our offense we haven't got a prayer tonight, but I'm learning to not assume these things with this team. After all, who else could lose 17 straight then beat CC Sabathia to snap it?

And we have Felix on the mound. Wells should be back out there tonight. And hopefully Robinson will play also. Right now seeing our kids is the most entertaining part of being a Mariners fan.



Want to say they broke the streak against Phil Hughes.

I see a win today but not holding out too much hope for when they get to Texas.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#44 » by TTown » Sun Aug 7, 2011 9:42 pm

Carp goes yard to draw us within 1 in the 9th. 3 hits today for Carp. Seager with two. Ackley, Wells, Robinson a combined 0/10.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#45 » by sharkz » Sun Aug 7, 2011 11:12 pm

jumanji wrote:
sharkz wrote:If we were judging by our offense we haven't got a prayer tonight, but I'm learning to not assume these things with this team. After all, who else could lose 17 straight then beat CC Sabathia to snap it?

And we have Felix on the mound. Wells should be back out there tonight. And hopefully Robinson will play also. Right now seeing our kids is the most entertaining part of being a Mariners fan.



Want to say they broke the streak against Phil Hughes.

I see a win today but not holding out too much hope for when they get to Texas.


My bad. Guess we arent as weird as I thought.

Our loyal carp servant crushes one.

Funny thing is, if you take out the 7th inning, this was probably one of the easiest outings for Felix all year, if not the easiest. 12 ks and no walks. Just 98 pitches. 70 for strikes. Wow.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#46 » by Bulltalk » Mon Aug 8, 2011 5:25 am

Yeah, Felix didn't deserve that.

Carp and Ackley have me feeling a bit better about our hitting moving forward. Put Prince Fielder in the lineup next year, have one of those young outfielders pan out, get Smoak going, find a better answer at 3rd base and catcher, hang on at SS for another year till a young gun can challenge for the spot in 2013...we might be able to be interesting next year with a big new addition like Fielder, might even be a legitimate contender in 2013.

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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#47 » by Sweezo » Mon Aug 8, 2011 6:49 am

Bulltalk wrote:Carp and Ackley have me feeling a bit better about our hitting moving forward. Put Prince Fielder in the lineup next year, have one of those young outfielders pan out, get Smoak going, find a better answer at 3rd base and catcher, hang on at SS for another year till a young gun can challenge for the spot in 2013...we might be able to be interesting next year with a big new addition like Fielder, might even be a legitimate contender in 2013.


The question is: Where do you fit all these people? Smoak and Carp basically play the same position. Carp may able to play LF in a pinch but when we have people like Robinson and Wells who can play the position exceptionally well, there's no excuse for putting Carp out there where his bat will be mitigated by his defensive shortcomings. There's no way Carp makes that play Robinson did at the wall the other day...

Catcher hasn't been mentioned much but the position is no better this year than it was last year. Olivo's just terrible. You know what's worse than Rob Johnson's .293 OBP last year? Olivo's .253 OBP this year. Last week, it sounded like Adam Moore was doing well with his knee rehab and may be able to play a bit at the end of the year. It'd be nice to see what he could offer [if anything] before the year is done.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#48 » by Bulltalk » Mon Aug 8, 2011 1:27 pm

Sweezo wrote:
Bulltalk wrote:Carp and Ackley have me feeling a bit better about our hitting moving forward. Put Prince Fielder in the lineup next year, have one of those young outfielders pan out, get Smoak going, find a better answer at 3rd base and catcher, hang on at SS for another year till a young gun can challenge for the spot in 2013...we might be able to be interesting next year with a big new addition like Fielder, might even be a legitimate contender in 2013.


The question is: Where do you fit all these people? Smoak and Carp basically play the same position. Carp may able to play LF in a pinch but when we have people like Robinson and Wells who can play the position exceptionally well, there's no excuse for putting Carp out there where his bat will be mitigated by his defensive shortcomings. There's no way Carp makes that play Robinson did at the wall the other day...

Catcher hasn't been mentioned much but the position is no better this year than it was last year. Olivo's just terrible. You know what's worse than Rob Johnson's .293 OBP last year? Olivo's .253 OBP this year. Last week, it sounded like Adam Moore was doing well with his knee rehab and may be able to play a bit at the end of the year. It'd be nice to see what he could offer [if anything] before the year is done.


Well if Carp should be the real thing, and we do make a run at Fielder, then Smoak will be a logjam at DH/1B/LF. But it sure would be nice for him to get hot here, at least improve his trade value. I think Smoak really depends upon Fielder, if we make a successful run at him. I think the odds are 50/50 that we are seriously involved in the Fielder talks this off-season.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#49 » by TTown » Mon Aug 8, 2011 4:56 pm

I have nothing to go on other than what I can see with my eyes on the television, but I'm not convinced Smoak hasn't been hiding some sort of injury for a little while now. No home runs since June 12, no authority on the swing, looks like he's having trouble getting lift on some balls he used to crush. I mean, I don't think anyone expected him to hit .300 like he was into May, but it's not just the slumping average. All semblance of power has left him.

The M's are in the very odd position of being a horrible offensive team without a plethora of options to upgrade. I think we'll make a play for Fielder, too, but I doubt we get him because he'll likely be priced out of our pocketbook, and the team is very high on Carp right now. If Z is still here this offseason, I also don't see him giving up on Smoak, because the Cliff Lee trade was his baby. I also don't think we should give up on Smoak; this is his first full season. Even if he's not hurt, he came out swinging, opponents adjusted, now it's on him to adjust to their adjustments between now and the start of 2012. We're locked into a couple guys in the outfield, we're committed to a couple young guys out there, too, both of whom show a lot of promise. Ackley's going to lockdown 2B for us for the next decade. So where do we upgrade? 3B, SS, C. For the production we get from him in comparison to his contract size, I'd like to keep Ryan, unless we can bring in a major upgrade. I don't see us bringing in another catcher, I think we're married to Olivo/Bard/Moore. Everyone would like to upgrade 3B, but the 3B FA class is crazy weak this year, and it's next to impossible for a fan to predict a ML trade.

So what the heck do we do? IMO, outside working the trade phones, there's not a lot we can do. Sign SS JJ Hardy (FA; .265/19/48 for the O's this year) and move him or Ryan to 3B? Join the Jose Reyes sweepstakes (which we shouldn't do)? Honestly, I don't know.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#50 » by Sweezo » Mon Aug 8, 2011 5:43 pm

I still maintain Smoak shouldn't be in the conversation for the outfield. His lack of speed would make him the worst defensive outfielder in baseball.

TTown wrote:
So what the heck do we do? IMO, outside working the trade phones, there's not a lot we can do. Sign SS JJ Hardy (FA; .265/19/48 for the O's this year) and move him or Ryan to 3B? Join the Jose Reyes sweepstakes (which we shouldn't do)? Honestly, I don't know.


Hardy signed a three year extension so he's out. Boy, Reyes is a hell of a player but I'd leery of spending that much money on him. SS is an extremely hard position to upgrade.

Man, the list of possible FA 3B and C is terrible:

Third Basemen

Wilson Betemit KC
Casey Blake LAD *
Eric Chavez NYY
Mark DeRosa SF
Greg Dobbs PHI
Edwin Encarnacion TOR *
Wes Helms FLA
Melvin Mora ARI
Aramis Ramirez CHC
Miguel Tejada SF
Omar Vizquel CWS

Catchers

Rod Barajas LAD
Henry Blanco ARI
Ramon Castro CWS
Ryan Doumit PIT
Ramon Hernandez CIN
Jason Kendall KC
Gerald Laird STL
Jose Molina TOR
Yadier Molina STL *
Dioner Navarro LAD
Jorge Posada NYY
Ivan Rodriguez WAS
Brian Schneider PHI
Kelly Shoppach TB *
Chris Snyder PIT *
Matt Treanor KC
Jason Varitek BOS
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#51 » by TTown » Mon Aug 8, 2011 6:46 pm

Didn't realize that about Hardy.

Indeed, our positions of need are not easily fixable with a spending spree during the winter meetings. Z can earn his paycheck by swinging a deal for a Major League third basemen, which we certainly lack, but don't ask me who that'll be, or who we'd give up.

Reyes freaks me out. He seems like he's a perpetual hamstring pull waiting-to-happen, and handing a 7-year deal to a pure speed player seems like a recipe for disaster. I know he's a couple years younger than Carl Crawford, but I'm not a fan.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#52 » by Sweezo » Mon Aug 8, 2011 6:53 pm

TTown wrote:Didn't realize that about Hardy.

Indeed, our positions of need are not easily fixable with a spending spree during the winter meetings. Z can earn his paycheck by swinging a deal for a Major League third basemen, which we certainly lack, but don't ask me who that'll be, or who we'd give up.


If the Mets are really trying to clear salary, would they move David Wright? And if so, is he a worthwhile addition?

TTown wrote:Reyes freaks me out. He seems like he's a perpetual hamstring pull waiting-to-happen, and handing a 7-year deal to a pure speed player seems like a recipe for disaster. I know he's a couple years younger than Carl Crawford, but I'm not a fan.


Mets just announced that he's having hamstring issues again and is now out 2-3 weeks again. I do not see him as a quality investment.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#53 » by ORL_4LIFE » Tue Aug 9, 2011 12:17 am

don't really see reyes as an answer, i mean even if he were to get on base, we have no one to drive him home anyways. wright would be nice, but i doubt the mets would trade him, they'd move reyes b4 wright, and if they moved reyes, they can't move wright cause they'll need someone to carry the team. fielder would be nice, but we would still need one more guy.

what's everyone's opinion about maybe working out a trade of pineda and say, one of our OF logjams, or smoak for a j. upton.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#54 » by TTown » Tue Aug 9, 2011 12:40 am

I feel for Furbush today. 104 degrees in Arlington, against that fantasy lineup...

ORL_4LIFE wrote:don't really see reyes as an answer, i mean even if he were to get on base, we have no one to drive him home anyways. wright would be nice, but i doubt the mets would trade him, they'd move reyes b4 wright, and if they moved reyes, they can't move wright cause they'll need someone to carry the team. fielder would be nice, but we would still need one more guy.

what's everyone's opinion about maybe working out a trade of pineda and say, one of our OF logjams, or smoak for a j. upton.


With our situation, these are the kinds of tough decisions we're going to have to make. We're going to have to give up quality to get it. Pineda's a lot to give up, but Upton's a 24-year old potential NL MVP with 4 years left on his deal after this one. I could probably argue both sides of the argument.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#55 » by sharkz » Tue Aug 9, 2011 1:19 am

Wilson double, tied at 2. Jack Freakin Wilson. Somebody make an offer for him now.

Dave Cameron wrote this article about trading Pineda sometime ago, don't know if everybody has read it or not. http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=422&sid=506991

I'll admit, the names he mentions in it scare me, but I do get his point. Right now a quick fix isn't available in free agency, which leaves the farm and trades as our only option. Still, I have no idea if Arizona is willing to give Upton up. He's really doing well this year and the team is in contention. First base is a weakness for them though, so they would probably have some interest in Smoak, unless they're high on Goldschmidt or something.

Right now though, it depends on how much do we trust the likes of Seager, Wells, Robinson, etc. It won't hurt to let them play a bit before we decide can we rely on them or not. After all, we ARE rebuilding.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#56 » by jumanji » Tue Aug 9, 2011 3:30 pm

I'd probably need a Jay Bruce along with Alonso and not sure i'd even do that.

The young guys just look overwhelmed against a veteran team like the Rangers, especially in that park. Ackley looks like he needs a day off. Carp has been a huge surprise the second time around.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#57 » by Sweezo » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:12 am

sharkz wrote:Dave Cameron wrote this article about trading Pineda sometime ago, don't know if everybody has read it or not. http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=422&sid=506991

I'll admit, the names he mentions in it scare me, but I do get his point. Right now a quick fix isn't available in free agency, which leaves the farm and trades as our only option. Still, I have no idea if Arizona is willing to give Upton up. He's really doing well this year and the team is in contention. First base is a weakness for them though, so they would probably have some interest in Smoak, unless they're high on Goldschmidt or something.


I think moving Pineda overestimates our pitching depth. We tend to look at pitching as the strength of this team's farm system, but there are no guarantees that Hultzen/Walker/Paxton/Vasquez amount to anything. With Bedard gone, Fister gone, and a bunch of question marks surrounding their replacements...I don't think we can get rid of a player as talented as Pineda. Felix is Felix, Vargas is serviceable, but after that I have no idea. Furbush looked great against the A's and terrible against the Rangers. Is he a guy we can pencil into the rotation?

If this team can get into the playoffs at some point, having two legit aces in a shortened rotation would be a premium. Felix/Pineda are damn close to fitting that bill.

If this team wants to pull off a trade for a bat, they have some decent minor league talent now to accomplish such a thing. Keep Pineda. We're going to need him for awhile. I'd love to have a player like Justin Upton on this team. But trading one All Star for another just sort of shifts the burden in my mind.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#58 » by sharkz » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:48 am

No time to say much, but congrats to Kyle Seager for his first big leagues RBI. Sure its a double play, but we did get SOMEONE home I guess.
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#59 » by TTown » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:09 am

5-3 M's in the 3rd.

Where the hell has this Jack Wilson been? He looks like the Jack Wilson who hit .308 and started an NL All Star game a couple years ago.

Neither Pineda nor Ogando are sharp today.

Carp just extended his hit streak to 10 games.

I have not seen Guti get a hit that wasn't a dribbler back up the middle in months. I'm sure it's happened, I just haven't seen it.

Trayvon fights back and forces a walk from an 0-2 count. With his whiff rate I'm sure the scouting report for 0-2 was "just get it relatively near the plate, he'll swing." I think he shocked everyone by laying off those 4 pitches.

Seager picks up an RBI by hitting into a bases loaded, no outs DP. That's the least impressive RBI I've seen since Jack Cust wrote the book on how to force a bases loaded walk earlier in the year.

Endy Chavez sighting! He's killing us. Solo HR and an RBI shot to left.

/observations
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Re: Bedard traded to Boston 

Post#60 » by TTown » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:15 am

Observational updates:

6-3 in the 3rd, Guti just smoked a double to left to force Ogando out of the game. Mission accomplished, Guti, now I have seen you get on base by way of something other than a hit back up the middle.
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