Top Trade Value SGs - DONE

[HartfordWhalers]

If we are Talking purely in terms of 'trade value', wouldn't Vince Carter need to be considered here?

He represents an INSTANTANEOUS $14million dollar salary savings by virtue of his extended buyout deadline, and with the uncertainty of the looming CBA most teams could be looking to ditch heavy salary, which usually attracts picks/ young prospects as sweetener.

Vince carter has less value then a TPE. You need to pay him 4 million dollars to not play. If we get to the point where people are voting for players who you would pay 5 million dollars to get out of their contracts, then it would be time for him. Because those are the people that Vince can get in a trade.

But I don't think we are there yet. I think we first need to get past Adam Hanga.

I think nevetsov has a fantastic point, something we all overlooked.

Vince absolutely has more value than a TPE. Most teams with capspace are looking to get something for free, and aren't usually looking to trade with it. The only problem is, its a niche market. The only teams that are going to be in on him are teams that want to get out of the luxury tax, or teams that are already or very close to the salary cap line. But to those teams, that capspace/lux tax room can be incredibly valuable. Thats exactly what landed the Mavericks Tyson Chandler, taking advantage of the Bobcats desire to get out from under the luxury tax.

He's like an expiring +, and I think a lot of GMs in the league would value that over middling prospects, which is where we are at 10 and beyond as far as SGs go.

I'd consider putting him 11th on this list, but 10th on my list. Still can't believe Kobe at 3

I cannot think of a single way Vince Carter's 4 million guaranteed contract is better then a TPE.
Costs you 4 million in dollars.
Costs you 4 million in cap space.
Gives you nothing.

Feel free to explain.

[vincecarter4pres]

It's not better then a TPE, but it's almost equally valuable, especially with $3 million attached to him.

[HartfordWhalers]

It's not better then a TPE, but it's almost equally valuable, especially with $3 million attached to him.

Sure, then its only off by 1.

[vincecarter4pres]

Nick Young is a low impact chucker and he's a restircted FA, he does not have high value.

He had to basically shoot the lights out to maintain a touch above average efficiency.

On his best days he's an average defender and doesn't understand the word pass.

All possibly true, but, we're comparing Young to Turner and Johnson, who aren't as good as Young and are only possible more attractive because they are younger, and Mayo, who isn't very good either. Young at least should be attractive to a team like the Bulls, that is close to championship level, and needs someone that can get his own shot and hit from the perimeter with accuracy.

You're quote from above might also be true of Ellis BTW. Ellis has terrible on/off stats for the Warriors. They look no better with him on the court than off, and Ellis makes a good bit of money.

Young is 4 years into the league.

It' took him 4 years in the association and a gifted starting job and green light to chuck on one of the worst teams in the league to go from space trash to one dimensional below average starter who should be coming off the bench for only 25mpg.

Turner and Wes Johnson have massively more potential and aren't far behind him in current play, it doesn't take much to match Young's skill level or impact.

Mayo slipped up and is still a better overall player then Young and a better defender even taking into account his undersized stature.

He's probably an equal quality shooter, a better all around player, still has the potential to become a more efficient version of his rookie and sophomore years and can handle the ball some to take pressure off Rose.

I'd easily rather have Mayo.

Add to all this Nick Young is a restricted free agent and I don't see his value.

He has to agree to go anywhere he's dealt to...

[FNQ]

I cannot think of a single way Vince Carter's 4 million guaranteed contract is better then a TPE.
Costs you 4 million in dollars.
Costs you 4 million in cap space.
Gives you nothing.

Feel free to explain.

Maybe not better than a TPE of the same value, but up until last year's mass defection, large TPEs were extremely rare. There are two teams that had large TPEs, but they went largely unused. So now the TPE market is only teams that are underneath the salary cap.

Any TPE is essentially capspace. A team under the salary cap that has a TPE has to renounce it to get capspace, so there is no point in keeping it, and like I already said:

Most teams with capspace are looking to get something for free, and aren't usually looking to trade with it.

The fact that its part of a contract increases the flexibility of the trade as well. Vince's 18m salary x 115% + 100k - or the other way around - allows for more/less salary to come back, and also allows people to be traded with him, unlike standard TPEs.

[HartfordWhalers]

I cannot think of a single way Vince Carter's 4 million guaranteed contract is better then a TPE.
Costs you 4 million in dollars.
Costs you 4 million in cap space.
Gives you nothing.

Feel free to explain.

Maybe not better than a TPE of the same value, but up until last year's mass defection, large TPEs were extremely rare. There are two teams that had large TPEs, but they went largely unused. So now the TPE market is only teams that are underneath the salary cap.

Any TPE is essentially capspace. A team under the salary cap that has a TPE has to renounce it to get capspace, so there is no point in keeping it, and like I already said:

Most teams with capspace are looking to get something for free, and aren't usually looking to trade with it.

The fact that its part of a contract increases the flexibility of the trade as well. Vince's 18m salary x 115% + 100k - or the other way around - allows for more/less salary to come back, and also allows people to be traded with him, unlike standard TPEs.

Probably because teams don't trade players with positive value for empty cap space. The same reason teams would't trade good players with positive value for cap space - 4 million.
If you want to eat the ugliest contract in the nba, you will get paid for it. But if you want to try and swap VC for anyone with positive value teams would laugh.

I'm sticking with Adam Hanga as having more trade value. If VC makes the poll, so should AH.

[FNQ]

This isn't about trade value if only one person is involved. This is about trade value, period. And the largest TPE in the league, essentially, along with the flexibility of adding salary or losing salary and adding players to the deal only increases its value.

Dampier was shopped for Tyson Chandler, playoffs difference maker, just last year. A 12m expiring contract. Just happened last year.

[HartfordWhalers]

This isn't about trade value if only one person is involved. This is about trade value, period. And the largest TPE in the league, essentially, along with the flexibility of adding salary or losing salary and adding players to the deal only increases its value.

Dampier was shopped for Tyson Chandler, playoffs difference maker, just last year. A 12m expiring contract. Just happened last year.

The same Tyson Chandler that OKC wasn't willing to lose the rights to Joe Smith, Chris Wilcox and DeVon Hardin for, based on his contract and injury history. Chandler made great this year. But that doesn't change that VC, just like Dampier, could only get a player that a team didn't want to pay and was willing to pay to go away.

[FNQ]

Along with all the value they'd receive in return.

Chandler, a season before, landed the Hornets a solid C in return. His value was more than that of an expiring, because he was a talented 7 footer. The Bobcats made the deal simply to get under the luxury tax, and lost a talented player to do so.

OKC, btw, said he failed a physical based on his toe. In 2009. Long, long time ago. Not relevant, as he passed physicals to be traded to the Bobcats and the Mavericks.

[vincecarter4pres]

And didn't Charlotte take back two small terrible contracts in the deal as well?

[HartfordWhalers]

Along with all the value they'd receive in return.

Chandler, a season before, landed the Hornets a solid C in return. His value was more than that of an expiring, because he was a talented 7 footer. The Bobcats made the deal simply to get under the luxury tax, and lost a talented player to do so.

OKC, btw, said he failed a physical based on his toe. In 2009. Long, long time ago. Not relevant, as he passed physicals to be traded to the Bobcats and the Mavericks.

Some massive revisionist history going on. Chandler was due 12.6 million and had played 51 and 45 games in his last 2 seasons when he was traded. He was just coming off averaging 6.5 ppg and 4.0 rpg. He was dumped as undesirable, undesirable production given his massive contract.

A year earlier and with less injury concerns he was swapped for an overpaid Okafor.

[jazzfan1971]

I'd take Gordon Hayward over Mayo or Wes Johnson myself.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I'd take Gordon Hayward over Mayo or Wes Johnson myself.

I would take Wes Matthews over all three of them, as well as Turner (though only because Turner had an unimpressive season, and while a decent end to the season, Matthews had an equivalent rookie year and a breakout second season, so he's more "proven" at this point... They are pretty neck and neck though, and I wouldn't be too surprised to see a breakout year from Turner that trumped Matthews... Still until it's clear that happens, Matthews should have a bit more value).


I think of Paul George and Wes Johnson as more of a natural SF's than SG's, and Manu is too old to command top 10 value anymore (though he is clearly the best player left).

[Village Idiot]

Matthews is very much a forgotten player. 15.9 ppg on very good percentages. 45/40.7/84.4 and solid defense. He's also started in the playoffs his first two seasons in the league and is only a year older than both Mayo and Johnson.

DeRozan connects on a whopping 9.6 % of his 3's which is horrid for a SG. Like you say, Turner has looked lost in his first year and will be 23 in October. Heck, Matthews even put up better stats than Harden.

Of the guys I mentioned now, only Manu, Harden and Matthews have above average PERs.

[vincecarter4pres]

Hah wow. Yeah we did forget entirely about Matthews, his trade value should be pretty damn solid.

[dockingsched]

Hayward?

[FNQ]

Along with all the value they'd receive in return.

Chandler, a season before, landed the Hornets a solid C in return. His value was more than that of an expiring, because he was a talented 7 footer. The Bobcats made the deal simply to get under the luxury tax, and lost a talented player to do so.

OKC, btw, said he failed a physical based on his toe. In 2009. Long, long time ago. Not relevant, as he passed physicals to be traded to the Bobcats and the Mavericks.

Some massive revisionist history going on. Chandler was due 12.6 million and had played 51 and 45 games in his last 2 seasons when he was traded. He was just coming off averaging 6.5 ppg and 4.0 rpg. He was dumped as undesirable, undesirable production given his massive contract.

A year earlier and with less injury concerns he was swapped for an overpaid Okafor.

7' Cs are always more valuable. A 6'11 C for a 7' one isn't really all that outlandish or indicative of what their value is. Both teams wanted to be rid of the injury risk, and traded for another C with a history of injuries. Neither one of those guys was available for pure expirings, as that would leave gaping holes on both squads.

As for Oak being overpaid, almost all Cs are. You have who, Dwight Howard, Marcin Gortat, and the ones still on rookie contracts, none of them are paid reasonably.

With #10 now likely belonging to Wes Mathews - as it should - no real need to include VC. But if it were still Wes Johnson or George, I wonder if a team would give more than a capable 7' C for him, + expirings. Even an injured one? Doubt it.

[FNQ]

Hah wow. Yeah we did forget entirely about Matthews, his trade value should be pretty damn solid.

I figured he would be on the SF value list... but yeah he's definitely higher than 10, too.

[vincecarter4pres]

Hah wow. Yeah we did forget entirely about Matthews, his trade value should be pretty damn solid.

I figured he would be on the SF value list... but yeah he's definitely higher than 10, too.

Why, he's a shooting guard.

[vincecarter4pres]

Hayward?

Same thing I was thinking.

Dude is a small forward through and through and is he really even any good? Or valuable?