REVISED: The ABCs of Trades: A is for Atlanta w/Toronto

[timdunkit]

The skillsets are interesting for Atlanta, but I'm not sure they want ANOTHER big contract for a guy whose best position is really PF.

Bargnani is decent at guarding big guys 1 on 1/isolation situations. So it could work defensively, with Bargnani picking up the bigger body and Horford/Smith providing the help defense.

[Laowai]

Klieza won't be moved he was injured all last last year and because of that he has many people down on him in Toronto. He is needed to ease the transition of Jonas into the NBA. The combination of Klieza and J. Johnson is better than Marvin and J. Johnson.

The trade with Bargs & Klieza gives Atlanta the 2 best players so easy no.

[Evermore]

Raps wouldn't be thrilled to deal Bargs for Williams...so the financial savings of swapping Calderon for Hinrich is the incentive they need to pull the trigger...and even then I think there would be hesitation

Kleiza for Pachulia is about fit/depth for both teams...


Bayless/HinrichX
DeRozan/BarbosaX
Williams/Johnson
Davis/Johnson
Val/Pachulia


If Teague is ready to start, there's no reason why Calderon can't be the backup. Hawks are taking on just over 3 million annually with this deal...

Teague/Calderon
Johnson
Smith/Kleiza
Horford/Smith
Bargnani/Horford

[theatlfan]

As for the revised deal, I mentioned that Bargnani is a lightning rod on the ATL board. Post a deal there and most of us would say that we'd rather not have him. Personally, I'd be willing to take a shot in a dump similar to this (Marvin isn't anything to us, but a change of scenery could do him some good; Zaza is upgraded anyway), but that's just me...

[Geaux_Hawks]

Personally, I think Bargs is worth giving up a future first for if Toronto is willing to take Marvin straight up.. If Calderon must go, then maybe Denver would take that future first and take on Caldy and send Koufos to Atlanta or if Minny would take that first-Caldy package and send us Ellington, Pekovich, & Hayward and send Ridnour to Toronto.

I could do one of the 2 deals:

Hawks get: Bargnani, Ellington, Lazar, Pekovich, future Raps 2nd pick
Raps get: Ridnour, Zaza, & Marvin
Wolves get: Calderon & future Hawks first pick

or

Hawks get: Bargnani & Koufos
Raps get: Marvin & Zaza
Nuggest get: Calderon & Hawks future first.

I prefer the 1st trade as it gives us better depth, but I would like to give Koufos the opportunity to start. I think he can develop & show off his skills better starting.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Raps wouldn't be thrilled to deal Bargs for Williams...so the financial savings of swapping Calderon for Hinrich is the incentive they need to pull the trigger...and even then I think there would be hesitation

Kleiza for Pachulia is about fit/depth for both teams...


Bayless/HinrichX
DeRozan/BarbosaX
Williams/Johnson
Davis/Johnson
Val/Pachulia


If Teague is ready to start, there's no reason why Calderon can't be the backup. Hawks are taking on just over 3 million annually with this deal...

Teague/Calderon
Johnson
Smith/Kleiza
Horford/Smith
Bargnani/Horford

We would? Why Williams right now is average. I don't think he's leaps and bounds better then Bargs or even a better fit then a 2012 SF or James Johnson at this point. I mean why do we make that deal to save what $2 million a year? Williams has potential but I don't see him as this breakout star that people are making out to be. If he has the talent people say he would be using it, not waiting till he gets moved then all of a sudden is this 15+ PPG and 7 RPG player people are touting him to be.

As for BossHoggin my bad I was going off the OP's deal didn't see Evermore's 1st post, that's where the Klazia bit came into it. As the deal sits as a 1 vs 1 Williams for Bargs swap like I said the legs are not there. Even with The Hawks say moving ZaZa for Klazia I don't do it. The savings isn't that good, unless it has the Calderon for Hinrich side to it that is the only way I make this deal. It's that or good bye Atlanta.

Geaux_Hawks - I don't do your deal Ridnour is ok but nothing we want and like I said Marvin isn't enough to do it. Calderon is a expiring in 2012/2013 so his value isn't in the **** like people are making him to be. There is no way in hell the Wolves touch your deal just to get a late first that is terrible for them. The Nuggets are not moving cap space for Jose they value that too much then getting yet another againg PG for it.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Essentially, Marvin would be utilizing his talents, but unfortunately at the time where he was about to breakout, we traded for Jamal Crawford. If people would just look at how he was coming along about 3 years ago, you could see why he has 15/7 potential, if not better. I'm not saying it to be biased. The addition of Jamal Crawford really set him back.

As far as those deals go, Ridnour is about 8 million dollars cheaper despite having an extra year overall. You basically get the same player, but a better defender. From what you are saying, you want to rid yourself of Calderons contract and get a legit upgrade some how and that isn't happening. Lazar Heyward and Wayne Ellington are just filling a roster spot from what Wolves fan say and Pek may be the odd man out. The reason for them to do it is to open roster slots to sign some quality vets. It isn't like they are giving up such glorified value. I just proposed the Nugget deal for the hell of it.

[BossHoggin]

New trade looks a lot better, but I think that #2 should be a #1

[Trader_Joe]

New trade looks a lot better, but I think that #2 should be a #1

I thought they used 2 of theirs in the Hinrich deal, otherwise I would have made it a #1.

[Geaux_Hawks]

New trade looks a lot better, but I think that #2 should be a #1

I thought they used 2 of theirs in the Hinrich deal, otherwise I would have made it a #1.

We claim as though we did since Crawford was a rookie who never got burn. If you insist on making it a #1 then the Hawks need something else coming in.

[HomieOmey]

Don't really care for the revised deal. Rather just give JJ a chance. Probably because I'm a biased Raptors fan, but I have a lot more dumb faith/hope/optimism that Bargs can prove himself effective than that Marvin can. And I do think ATL knows that Bargs would fit much better in ATL since he is a solid post defender and legit offensive threat. If he works out great then Horford is happy he doesn't have to play C and the Hawks have a pretty solid balance of offence and defence in their starting five. This deal also potentially saves ATL quite a bit of money depending on what Crawford needs to stay. If he demands close to Bargs $$, then I'm guessing ATL would be happy to bring in a player who makes keeping Crawford less necessary. Basically, I rather take my chances with Bargnani's potential - as likely as he is to disappoint again.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Rather just give JJ a chance. Probably because I'm a biased Raptors fan, but I have a lot more dumb faith/hope/optimism that Bargs can prove himself effective than that Marvin can. And I do think ATL knows that Bargs would fit much better in ATL since he is a solid post defender and legit offensive threat. Basically, I rather take my chances with Bargnani's potential - as likely as he is to disappoint again.

Clearly, both players need a change of scenery. Bargs needs somebody he can depend on to take pressure off him from being "That Guy", while Marvin just needs an opportunity to showcase what he can do for a team, much like Dorell Wright. Playing next to Val will help out a lot, but Toronto still will depend a lot on Bargs and he just won't strive as being "That Guy". Meanwhile, Marvin may never get an opportunity to play up to his potential until after he expires or gets traded. Dude has really shown strong flashes when given a chance. I mean the Hawks get the better of the deal, but Toronto can very well end up with a productive SF, and direct their main focus on a "PGOTF"

Best case scenario, Marvin performs adequately to where SF is no longer a main priority for the team. So now the '12 draft rolls around and you know you got Val coming over for next season, Marvin just had a solid season, Derozan looks even better, and Davis is coming along strong. Yet, at PG, Calderon is not the guy for the future and Bayless fits better as a 6th man scorer. Guys like Kabongo and Teague seem to be just a promising of being a star player as those SF's everyone else talks about.

Teague(My preference)/Kabongo
Derozan
Marvin
Davis
Val

Bench: Amir, Bayless, Zaza, & Johnson

That's a promising team in the East with a rookie PG guiding the team.

Looks promising in the East.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Geaux_Hawks - I agree that both players need new starts but Marvin's shouldn't be with Toronto. The guy is just as overpaid as Bargs right now and doesn't fit a need here. I mean why do we want to take him on when we look poised to take a SF in 2012? That "team" you made isn't good enough right now to beat Chicago and Miami for sure. They have potential and are young but so were the 2000's Clippers they had a lot of prospects and look how that went.