Replacing Aaron Hill

[damadmonk]

No he isn't. Just because he's playing almost everyday, doesn't make him a true everyday player. The only reason Hill is playing everyday is because of his salary and lack of alternatives, although Jmac is better. A player with crappy offense and defense is not the definition of an everyday player.

What are you saying here? What is a true everyday player? Hill plays everyday. How do you define everyday player? A player that plays everyday (most)?

Hill might not be the most productive player right now. But he is playing everyday. Thus, he's a everyday player.

That part just states what I already know. We all know how the compensation system works. I'm just not sure if you do. How many times in this thread did I tell you there is zero chance Hill declines arbitration if AA is crazy enough to even offer it? the article was published almost two freakin months ago. The writer probably believed Hill could turn things around eventually, but he got even worse as the season went along. Find me one single sane person that is suggesting offering Hill arbitration? You can't because you're the only one.

You think I'm the author? Even AA has come out and suggested that the option of Hill being in Toronto long term is still there.

You clearly have no idea how things work. He's gonna be a free agent at the end of the year, not arbitration eligible.

You didn't even know that this was Hill's arbitration year. I question that you know it all.

As for Olivo, he isn't particularly good, but at least he is good enough to start for several teams in marjor league level. He also happens to be a catcher with passable defense and offense. Also his previous salary was 2m. Reasonable for a borderline starter. If Olivo was to accept the arbitration offer, AA would still be able to trade him. Same can't be said for Hill.

Olivo production had nothing to do with this trade. It was all about the Type B draft pick. AA seen value in getting Olivo not for his ability. But for his ability to get a pick.

I'm just baffled how anyone can think paying 5M to Hill is anything but an atrocious idea.

You make it sound like offering arbitration to Hill is on the level of Wells contract.

You're saying: AA should offer Hill arbitration which would be 5m+, hopefully he declines and we get a pick! And if he doesn't, he's still an asset who plays everyday!

I'm saying: AA is not a moron who would waste 5m on a bench scrub that Hill has become. If Hill receives arbitration offer, he'd be crazy not to accept it, especially when it's unclear whether or not he's gonna be able to get a major league contract in the offseason, let alone 5m contract. Not even Ed Wade is that stupid. Then what happens when he accepts? we're stuck with $5m dead weight.

What I'm saying is this that AA will offer Hill arbitration. His reason is based on current assets and availability of free agents.

At this point we don't have anybody worthy of starting at second base. Not JMac. If they wanted him to start, they would and do as you have suggest and just let Hill walk right? Or at least bench him.

Nobody in the minors for the time being. Adeiny Hechavarria isn't ready and won't be MLB ready til 2013 or late 2012 at the earliest. Escobar will likely be moved over to 2nd at that point. AH will be starting once he gets here.

In terms of option of FA, what are you going to do? Sign a more elite player? They would want 3 yrs minimum. That wouldn't go with the plan for AH. Sign a scrub for a yr? Is that really a better option than Hill?

Going to arbitration with Hill isn't going to break the bank. With 7-8 other hitting positions filled, having Hill as the second basemen next year with AH getting ready isn't going to be the nightmare you suggest.

The thread is about replacing Hill. I'm saying that with the options available, the chance to get a pick, it isn't as likely as you think it is.

But if you disagree, what better options do we have?

[kwamebargnani]

What are you saying here? What is a true everyday player? Hill plays everyday. How do you define everyday player? A player that plays everyday (most)?

This is getting ridiculous. You're defining him as an "everyday player" because he's playing everyday? Let's put it this way. There's no single major league team that is willing to just flat out hand him the starting job for next season.

You think I'm the author? Even AA has come out and suggested that the option of Hill being in Toronto long term is still there.

Duh. You think AA would go out and say "Hill sucks, and he's not gonna be here next year"? He's keeping it classy like any GM shold in that situation.

You didn't even know that this was Hill's arbitration year. I question that you know it all.

Because it isn't. Do you even know what "arbitration year" is? Just because a player is given an arbitration offer before hitting free agent market, doesn't mean it's his arbitration year.

Olivo production had nothing to do with this trade. It was all about the Type B draft pick. AA seen value in getting Olivo not for his ability. But for his ability to get a pick.

You're talking out of your ass now. Nowhere did I say AA traded for Olivo because of his ability, but I said his production helps because then he wouldn't have to worry about him accepting arbitration offer. He's a good enough player to net something out of trade, if he accepted arbitration. Plus, you're not gonna get a pick out of a scrub who would likely accept arb, so I don't know it's completely irrelevant.

You make it sound like offering arbitration to Hill is on the level of Wells contract.

So as long as it isn't 120m, it's okay to throw away money?

What I'm saying is this that AA will offer Hill arbitration. His reason is based on current assets and availability of free agents.

Ellis or Scutaro at lower cost > Hill at 5m. None of them are long term options but Ellis (defensively) and Scutaro can provide same production at lower costs.

At this point we don't have anybody worthy of starting at second base. Not JMac. If they wanted him to start, they would and do as you have suggest and just let Hill walk right? Or at least bench him.

They're gonna let Hill finish the year, like they did with Overbay. DFAing Hill now does nothing for the Jays. They're gonna end up paying his full salary either way, so why the hell would you do that?

Sign a scrub for a yr? Is that really a better option than Hill?

Ironic. Hill IS a scrub, and you want to pay him 5m. Again, I'd much rather prefer Ellis, who can at least play defense, or Scutaro, who can be somewhat productive offensively. Even if they weren't available, Hill @ 5m is the worst thing possible.

Going to arbitration with Hill isn't going to break the bank. With 7-8 other hitting positions filled, having Hill as the second basemen next year with AH getting ready isn't going to be the nightmare you suggest.

No it's not gonna break the bank, nor does throwing around $20 bills on the street. But it's a terrible financial management.

The thread is about replacing Hill. I'm saying that with the options available, the chance to get a pick, it isn't as likely as you think it is.

For the love of god, THERE IS ZERO CHANCE WE GET A PICK OUT OF HIM. I would not have commented on your post if you just said you wanted to bring Hill back at cheaper price, but you're willing to just flat out overpay for an undeserving scrub for no particular reason. And please stop talking about that compensation pick, because everyone on the forum, except you, knows Hill's agent isn't dumb enough to reject 5m offer.

[Schad]

You are assuming (1) that Jose doesn't want to play 2B, which may or may not be true.

It is true that Jose doesn't want to play 2B, because he is not a crazy person.

You are also assuming (2) that even if Jose doesn't want to play 2B, he would be unwilling to set aside his personal wishes for the sake of the team. Since Jose was willing to set his wishes aside for the team when it came to playing 3B, he may be willing to do so, considering the obvious hole at 2B.

This wouldn't be good for the sake of the team, because Jose Bautista cannot be a full-time second baseman. He has played fourteen games as a professional (not as a major leaguer; fourteen games since he was drafted, over ten years ago), and he has neither the range nor the specialized skills to handle the position.

You are also assuming (3) that even if Jose doesn't want to play 2B and doesn't want to set aside this personal wish that the Jays will be unwilling to make the move anyway. Since the Jays moved Jose to 3B when Jose had indicated he likes RF, I think the Jays are willing to consider all options at 2B, regardless of Jose's feelings.

THE JAYS MANAGEMENT WILL NOT DO THIS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HUFF GAS OR USE THEIR HEADS AS SLEDGEHAMMERS OR SUFFER FROM EARLY-ONSET DEMENTIA NOR ARE THEY THE PRODUCT OF A GENE PYRAMID LIKE CHARLES II OF SPAIN AND THEY AREN'T TRYING TO SET UP AN INSANITY DEFENSE FOR AN UPCOMING TRIAL AND AA DOESN'T PARTY WITH TIMOTHY LEARY OR WHOEVER IS TIMOTHY LEARY-LIKE NOW THAT HE'S DEAD AND IT ISN'T THE BASEBALL VERSION OF THE PRODUCERS WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE THE TEAM FAIL TO COLLECT ON SOME SORT OF INSURANCE SCAM AND THEY DIDN'T HIRE DAMIEN COX AS BENCH COACH OR OUTSOURCE THEIR DECISION-MAKING TO A MILLION MONKEYS MAKING A MILLION ROSTER MOVES AND MISS CLEO'S DEVELOPMENTALLY-DELAYED SECOND COUSIN ISN'T A CONSULTANT AND FARRELL ONLY HITS THE SAUCE ON OFF-DAYS AND THERE ISN'T A SINGLE PERSON OTHER THAN YOURSELF WHO'D EVEN CONSIDER SUCH A THING SO STOP BEING SILLY RIGHT THIS INSTANT.

[Geddy]

I have an odd combination of wanting to burst out in laughter and being really scared

[raptorforlife88]

THE JAYS MANAGEMENT WILL NOT DO THIS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HUFF GAS OR USE THEIR HEADS AS SLEDGEHAMMERS OR SUFFER FROM EARLY-ONSET DEMENTIA NOR ARE THEY THE PRODUCT OF A GENE PYRAMID LIKE CHARLES II OF SPAIN AND THEY AREN'T TRYING TO SET UP AN INSANITY DEFENSE FOR AN UPCOMING TRIAL AND AA DOESN'T PARTY WITH TIMOTHY LEARY OR WHOEVER IS TIMOTHY LEARY-LIKE NOW THAT HE'S DEAD AND IT ISN'T THE BASEBALL VERSION OF THE PRODUCERS WHERE THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE THE TEAM FAIL TO COLLECT ON SOME SORT OF INSURANCE SCAM AND THEY DIDN'T HIRE DAMIEN COX AS BENCH COACH OR OUTSOURCE THEIR DECISION-MAKING TO A MILLION MONKEYS MAKING A MILLION ROSTER MOVES AND MISS CLEO'S DEVELOPMENTALLY-DELAYED SECOND COUSIN ISN'T A CONSULTANT AND FARRELL ONLY HITS THE SAUCE ON OFF-DAYS AND THERE ISN'T A SINGLE PERSON OTHER THAN YOURSELF WHO'D EVEN CONSIDER SUCH A THING SO STOP BEING SILLY RIGHT THIS INSTANT.

There are tears in my eyes right now. I think I can say confidently that this will be the post of the year, even with four months left.

Also I feel this is necessary for anyone who didn't get that fantastic reference. Charles II