Is There a Single Bulls Fan on Here Who Says D.Will > Rose?

[Gongxi]

I give up. It's like you don't know that Chicagoland has like 5 million Illini fans.

[oaktownwarriors87]

The number of Rose jerseys purchased by Bulls fans has to be at leas 5,000x greater than the number of Deron Williams jerseys purchased by Bulls fans. The thought that a Bulls fan is subjective because Deron Williams played at Illinois is idiotic.

[Trader_Joe]

The number of Rose jerseys purchased by Bulls fans has to be at leas 5,000x greater than the number of Deron Williams jerseys purchased by Bulls fans. The thought that a Bulls fan is subjective because Deron Williams played at Illinois is idiotic.

Yup.. and I doubt if I logged onto the RealGM College Basketball I would find many of the same Bulls posters in here talking Illini and D.Will.

[ahonui06]

The number of Rose jerseys purchased by Bulls fans has to be at leas 5,000x greater than the number of Deron Williams jerseys purchased by Bulls fans. The thought that a Bulls fan is subjective because Deron Williams played at Illinois is idiotic.

Yup.. and I doubt if I logged onto the RealGM College Basketball I would find many of the same Bulls posters in here talking Illini and D.Will.

+1

[Gongxi]

Jesus Christ guys, don't quit your day jobs. Thinking things through logically clearly isn't for you:

No one said anything about anyone advocating as much for Rose as Williams.

Of course Bulls fans will like Rose more than they like Deron. That's not the point. The point is that the comparison isn't between a player most of them love and a player they are impartial towards (which would at least be a starting off point for the OPs 'study'); it's a comparison between a player most of them love and a player they also like a lot. Which defeats the purpose of what he was trying to get it.

You guys didn't too well when it came to scientific inquiry in college, did you? Or just remember it, period.

[Trader_Joe]

Jesus Christ guys, don't quit your day jobs. Thinking things through logically clearly isn't for you:

No one said anything about anyone advocating as much for Rose as Williams.

Of course Bulls fans will like Rose more than they like Deron. That's not the point. The point is that the comparison isn't between a player most of them love and a player they are impartial towards (which would at least be a starting off point for the OPs 'study'); it's a comparison between a player most of them love and a player they also like a lot. Which defeats the purpose of what he was trying to get it.

You guys didn't too well when it came to scientific inquiry in college, did you? Or just remember it, period.

So, what should that tell us?

That the homersim effect would be even worse than it appears on here, correct?

That...
Even though 30% of the general population pick D.Will over Rose, 0% of Bulls fans pick D.Will.

So...
If there was a player picked 50%, say Bynum over Noah, we could expect 0-15% of Bulls fans picking Bynum over Noah.

Otherwise, I'm not sure your point, or what affect D.Will's Illini connection really has here.

[RichardsRival3]

I give up. It's like you don't know that Chicagoland has like 5 million Illini fans.

Played pick-up ball with him, Dee Brown and Luther Head when they were at U of I.

Saw him go from a pudgy freshman to a superstar junior.

[Gongxi]

I know you're not sure of my point. You hammered that home in page 3.

That was for the other folks to understand what the problem with the little experiment was. It's foundation was flawed. I pointed that out to you, and you flailed about randomly. I think you just kinda forgot the Deron played for the Illini and are now trying to deny that that could affect things in any way, although you clearly don't seem to understand how big Illini basketball is in Chicago. So that's kinda funny.

I don't care about the homerism via hypothetical percentages that you just made up. No one is harder on homers than I am- I refuse to post on the Bulls board because of it. I'm just telling you that the player you picked to compare to Rose is not the 'control' entity that you'd want when trying to do this little sociological experiment. I know you don't understand that point; I'm saying that now for anyone else reading it.

[hassan_BADams]

Rose is arguably da best PG of ALL-TIME. Not sure how Deron is even close. Rose is a better passer, closer (deron's never closed a game), shooter, better at make'in decisions AND running an offense.

[Trader_Joe]

But I'm telling you many of them feel very sympathetic towards Williams. So that skews the 'study', as it were. There's much better options out there if you want to look at homerism, because this one is extremely complicated: lots of people are fans of both of them, because both of them have been the best recent players on teams they like.

Ok.. going back to this.
How is it skewing this?

Not a single Bulls fan will say they like D.Will better than Rose... not one.
So there doesn't seem to be any sort of homerism effect where a poster has picked D.Will over D.Rose. You would think if there was at least 1 person would agree with the 30% that prefers D.Will.

I still don't understand how Deron's Illlini fame has at all "helped" him if not a single Bulls fan on here says they prefer D.Will.

That's all.. now I'm done.

[Tubal]

Rose is arguably da best PG of ALL-TIME. Not sure how Deron is even close. Rose is a better passer, closer (deron's never closed a game), shooter, better at make'in decisions AND running an offense.

Rose is better at breaking people off the dribble.

Williams is better at everything else.

It depends on where you place your value. Rose could probably beat Deron in a 1 on 1 game, but Deron could probably beat Rose in a 5 on 5 game.

[Rerisen]

It depends on where you place your value. Rose could probably beat Deron in a 1 on 1 game, but Deron could probably beat Rose in a 5 on 5 game.

Doubtful, since Rose smothered Deron head to head both times last year. The first time resulting in a huge locker blow up vs his coach, after which Sloan quit, and Deron was subsequently traded.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I think Deron Williams has an undeserved reputation as being the better "team" or "fit" point guard (this comes up all the time in Chris Paul debates as well).

Its like, because he isn't quite as skilled a dribbler as Paul, or as quick/athletic as Rose, it must mean he somehow runs a team better.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Btw, I think the bigger flaw is that the OP is making a thread intended to ferret out people's biases despite letting his bias help to create the thread (he himself being a Nets fan).

[Trader_Joe]

Btw, I think the bigger flaw is that the OP is making a thread intended to ferret out people's biases despite letting his bias help to create the thread (he himself being a Nets fan).

My bias allows me to say Rose > D.Williams.
Not a single Chicago fan can overcome their bias to say D.Will > Rose.

Again if 30% of the general population can, it looks as though there is some sort of quantifiable measure of bias here.

[Jvaughn]

Btw, I think the bigger flaw is that the OP is making a thread intended to ferret out people's biases despite letting his bias help to create the thread (he himself being a Nets fan).

My bias allows me to say Rose > D.Williams.
Not a single Chicago fan can overcome their bias to say D.Will > Rose.

That doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that Bulls fans only say Rose>Dwill because their biased. You're not accepting that we say it because it's actually true. We see Rose every night, so of course we're going to accept the truth.

[Rapcity_11]

Btw, I think the bigger flaw is that the OP is making a thread intended to ferret out people's biases despite letting his bias help to create the thread (he himself being a Nets fan).

My bias allows me to say Rose > D.Williams.
Not a single Chicago fan can overcome their bias to say D.Will > Rose.

That doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that Bulls fans only say Rose>Dwill because their biased. You're not accepting that we say it because it's actually true. We see Rose every night, so of course we're going to accept the truth.

There's homerism at it's best. I'm not even saying you're wrong, just the way you say it screams HOMER.

I can't believe how many people missed Gongxi's point.

[Trader_Joe]

Jesus Christ guys, don't quit your day jobs. Thinking things through logically clearly isn't for you:

No one said anything about anyone advocating as much for Rose as Williams.

Of course Bulls fans will like Rose more than they like Deron. That's not the point. The point is that the comparison isn't between a player most of them love and a player they are impartial towards (which would at least be a starting off point for the OPs 'study'); it's a comparison between a player most of them love and a player they also like a lot. Which defeats the purpose of what he was trying to get it.

You guys didn't too well when it came to scientific inquiry in college, did you? Or just remember it, period.

What don't you get?
I'm not running a friggin' science experiment here and have a control group or a placebo group. I don't work for Pzifer or Merk.. it's a message board.

All I'm trying to show, or what I''ve seen in this thread is this...

There is a major bias that is evident among Bulls fans toward Rose that seemingly make them nonobjective when evaluating PGs.

The proof:
~30% of 3rd party real GM fans say D.Will > Rose
0.0% of Bulls fan say D.Will > Rose

Now according to you there is some sort of bias here.

One where D.Rose fans are also D.Will fans because he went to Illinois 6 years ago, even though:
a. This is the NBA forum
b. Deron is on a wanna be rival EC team
c. Rose is from Chicago, Deron Texas
d. NOT A SINGLE Bulls fan will say D.Will > Rose

Yet according to you he is supposed to get "sympathy" from Chicago fans and cause what exactly?
He can get negative votes, the worst he can get is 0 votes.. like he has.

I think your the one that is imagining some sort of bias that doesn't exist, or doesn't matter as others have told you, but you don't seem to get it.

[Trader_Joe]

Btw, I think the bigger flaw is that the OP is making a thread intended to ferret out people's biases despite letting his bias help to create the thread (he himself being a Nets fan).

My bias allows me to say Rose > D.Williams.
Not a single Chicago fan can overcome their bias to say D.Will > Rose.

That doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that Bulls fans only say Rose>Dwill because their biased. You're not accepting that we say it because it's actually true. We see Rose every night, so of course we're going to accept the truth.

So why do roughly 30% 3rd party fans who:

a. See them equally or more likely see Rose more and more recently
b. have no reason to be biased for or against Rose or D.Will

say D.Will > Rose?

What does seeing a player every night have to do with anything?
I see Lopez ever night. Doesn't mean I think he is even a top 5 Center.

[Sunk Cost]

There is no quantifiable homer effect to begin with. Bias is different between any two people, or any two fan bases. The bias of a full blown bandwagon is not comparable to the bias of Twolves fans or Kings fans (likewise for comparing Bieber fans to Tchaikovsky fans).

I'm not surprised William's college career is no concern to you if you were willing to accept this premise to begin with. Here's a quick rundown of problems with using these two players in particular:

1. Rose has been in Chicago almost his whole life. Deron just got traded to NJ.
2. Rose has great athleticism and scoring ability, and he just won MVP while getting the #1 seed and making it to the ECF. He is going to draw greater homerism than most players in the league, including DWill.
3. Rose just won MVP while getting the #1 seed and making it to the ECF. He is going to have more haters than most players in the league, including DWill, but most people in Chicago actually love him for this.
4. Rose just had a terrible (shooting) performance in the playoffs, confirming to basketball experts everywhere that his style of play does not win championships. Since most basketball experts reside in warmer climates, this appears as a bias for Chicago fans.
5. Deron played for Illinois.
6. etc