Roster Prediction / Cuts Debate

[TSE]

LOL, we're not going to trade Nate Burleson, Delmas, or Spievey. IMO, they are all starters and will be a big part of our success this season and moving forward. You have to admit that trading and stockpiling talent is all fine and dandy, but sooner or later, you have to start KEEPING some of the better talent.

I think if the Lions wanted to, they might have a few tradeable assets that might net us mid-to-late round draft picks. Those guys are: S Coleman, DT Fluellen, DT Williams, WR Derrick Willaims, RB Bell, QB Hill or QB Stanton (only one QB).

Again, not saying we SHOULD trade them, but those are the guys I see as realistic tradeable assets who we could see as expendable now and that other teams might also have interest in.

Yeah I just got done saying that I don't see Spievey fitting into the trade process. And your assertion that we WON'T trade Burleson and Delmas is not compatible with what I was saying. That's a prediction and I wholeheartedly agree, cause Mayhew has different strategies and his affinities for those players and the nature of his plan is more conducive to keeping those guys. So I would be SHOCKED if we traded Burleson or Delmas. The comments I made are just talking about what I would like to do. And to keep some of your talent, well gee that's only 2 guys in question, that's not a huge portion of our team to swap. And if we trade the DL players I suggest, we could end up with a young and good WR or S or somebody that is new to you, but nevertheless "talent that we should keep". Any guys that you think are worth keeping I'm not trading hypothetically unless we get "MORE talent that is worth keeping", so that's doing exactly what you ask for, but just a better job of it imo.

[ajaX82]

Please stay on topic. Your rants about your logic and whatever just get everyone distracted. From the TOS

Members who disrupt the normal flow of dialogue or otherwise act in a manner that negatively affects other users’ ability to engage in real-time exchanges may be warned.

This kind of stuff disrupts the flow of talk about roster cuts and gets everyone talking to you. Start a blog if you want page long talks about how great you are

Oh. I thought I was on topic.

You weren't. And it is not up for discussion. My last post laid out what the problem was and the exact rule it fell into conflict with. PM me if you want to discuss this more.

Back to the Lions...

[ajaX82]

How many guys can we keep on the PS? Guys I'd like to see stick on the Practice Squad:

WR Demario Ballard
WR Nate Hughes
DT Robert Calloway (if he doesn't outright make the 53-man roster)
LB Caleb Campbell
LB Cobrani Mixon
FB Matt Clapp
TE Richard Dickson
S Randy Phillips
S Ricardo Silva

You should add Culbreath, our 7th round OT, to that list. I think we are definitely planning on putting him on the practice squad

[TSE]

Yeah we can dump Caleb Campbell for Culbreath. I don't understand why we bothered to draft Campbell since apparently we aren't even going to let him try or play at all. I guess he was a token draft pick? WTF, draft guys and let them have a shot at least before you cut them out of your plans, but the Lions had no strategy to make use out of him.

[TSE]

You weren't. And it is not up for discussion. My last post laid out what the problem was and the exact rule it fell into conflict with. PM me if you want to discuss this more.

Back to the Lions...

You specified the rule but you quoted my entire post and you didn't delineate the specifics of what I said that conflicted with the rule, nor did you supply a tied in rationale as to how those specifics relate to the said rule, so it is up for discussion if you want the person you informed of breaking the rules to have any clue as to what you are talking about. And no interest on my end to PM you on the matter cause I have no basis for understanding what there is to talk about in that regard. All I see here is now 4 wasted posts that have nothing to do with Lions football or with establishing how the rules work, but that's all on you as the originator of this sub-topic. I think you should be penalized for a rules violation yourself from following the logic of this conversation string. Plus, on a personal level I think you owe me an apology for being rude and improper.

[Piston Pete]

You weren't. And it is not up for discussion. My last post laid out what the problem was and the exact rule it fell into conflict with. PM me if you want to discuss this more.

Back to the Lions...

You specified the rule but you quoted my entire post and you didn't delineate the specifics of what I said that conflicted with the rule, nor did you supply a tied in rationale as to how those specifics relate to the said rule, so it is up for discussion if you want the person you informed of breaking the rules to have any clue as to what you are talking about. And no interest on my end to PM you on the matter cause I have no basis for understanding what there is to talk about in that regard. All I see here is now 4 wasted posts that have nothing to do with Lions football or with establishing how the rules work, but that's all on you as the originator of this sub-topic. I think you should be penalized for a rules violation yourself from following the logic of this conversation string. Plus, on a personal level I think you owe me an apology for being rude and improper.

Dude, you don't get it.

Back ON TOPIC, yeah, PS Culbreath too.

For me, borderline PS guys are Clapp and Phillips.

[ajaX82]

You weren't. And it is not up for discussion. My last post laid out what the problem was and the exact rule it fell into conflict with. PM me if you want to discuss this more.

Back to the Lions...

You specified the rule but you quoted my entire post and you didn't delineate the specifics of what I said that conflicted with the rule, nor did you supply a tied in rationale as to how those specifics relate to the said rule, so it is up for discussion if you want the person you informed of breaking the rules to have any clue as to what you are talking about. And no interest on my end to PM you on the matter cause I have no basis for understanding what there is to talk about in that regard. All I see here is now 4 wasted posts that have nothing to do with Lions football or with establishing how the rules work, but that's all on you as the originator of this sub-topic. I think you should be penalized for a rules violation yourself from following the logic of this conversation string. Plus, on a personal level I think you owe me an apology for being rude and improper.

check PMs. end of conversation

[ajaX82]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practice_squad

from wikipedia, we can put 8 people on the PS. hope that helps

[Piston Pete]

How many guys can we keep on the PS? Guys I'd like to see stick on the Practice Squad:

WR Demario Ballard
WR Nate Hughes
OT Johnny Culbreath
LB Caleb Campbell
LB Cobrani Mixon
TE Richard Dickson
S Ricardo Silva

S Randy Phillips
FB Matt Clapp
**8th spot is currently a tie between S Phillips and FB Clapp

My 8 for the PS are above.

I left off Calloway (who I had on my previous list) because I think Fluellen gets cut or traded and Calloway takes his roster spot.

[TSE]

Dude, you don't get it.

Get what? What are you contesting about my opinion?

[TSE]

Changes after game 2 updated to main list: Toone changed to Stovall, Mixon (1 FF and 1 near FR on the questionable Hogue FF) for Ekejiuba, Madison for Vasher, Phillips removed due to injury, and Logan added to bubble list due to lesser value of KRs and we might need another viable WR.

[kellmellus50]

Derrick williams drops too many passes i would take Stovall over him .

our recievers will be hard too choose the final cuts.

[TSE]

Yeah but DW also knows how to get open and that's valuable, and anybody can have bad luck on a few passes and catching the ball is something that he can work on and improve, it's harder to work on the other stuff. I wouldn't cut ties with him so quickly, but in the end I wouldn't be shocked to see DW and Logan go off, and Hughes and Stovall both go on. It really boils down to how confident they are in having a return man other than Logan, cause if Hughes can do that then Logan might be at risk.

[kellmellus50]

Coach likes stovall ,he catches the ball even when he is not open. i am going out on a limb and saying he will make the team.DW had 2 years to improve catching and nothings changed i will be very surprised if they keep him.(preseason 1 catch 3 drops in 4 passes).does not look good.

Quote:Rashied Davis and Maurice Stovall, both free agent additions who are also very good on special teams.

In Friday's game, Davis had one catch for 10 yards while Stovall caught all four passes thrown his way for 67 yards and a touchdown.

"He's always been a good special teams player, but he gives us a good run on offense," Lions coach Jim Schwartz said of Stovall. "He's a big target. When the quarterbacks had one-on-ones, they were aggressive throwing it to him and he made those plays, a couple of good diving catches. He's a mismatch for a lot of corners. He's big and strong."

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/20 ... s_rec.html

[Icness]

Derrick williams drops too many passes i would take Stovall over him .

our recievers will be hard too choose the final cuts.

Agree on both.

Davis is an excellent special teams player and that holds real value for Schwartz & Co. One of the reasons they drafted Williams where they did was they thought he could return punts but he obviously cannot. If he isn't catching everything near him he doesn't have the value to merit keeping over Davis. Having said that, I happen to like Rashied Davis as a person and his agent as well and that might cloud my judgment

[TSE]

Oh don't get suckered into liking the nice guys! It's usually better to kick the nice guys to the curb, cause typically that observation is made as an excuse to make up for the lack of playing value comments that can't be said. I'd take a Michael Vick over a Saint Michael any day on my football team. If Saint Michael is starving for food and asks me for a buck and it has to come from my salary cap, I'll tell him to suck an egg and give that dollar to the overpaid dog murdering Vick that helps win games.

Also, isn't there anybody that would possibly make a trade for DW? Would SF have traded Taylor Mays for him? We have so many WRs and it would be like giving up nothing if we already like so many guys above him, and at least take a random flier of desperate hope. Mays has the body and athleticism to possibly get lucky and figure out how to play football at some spot if the right circumstances click together. Or some other player or draft pick?

[Piston Pete]

WR is easy IMO:

CJ, Nate, Titus, Stovall, Davis (5)

If we keep 6 WRs, maybe we keep Logan and hope we can stash Hughes on the PS. If we don't think Hughes would clear waivers (PS), I think we keep Hughes over Logan for his recieving skills and lesser salary. Hughes could replace Logan on kick/punt returns.

[TSE]

Still 2 games left, so let's make Stovall really earn that spot. I just think that Davis has been in the league for a while now and hasn't impressed yet, so why should he start now? With Hughes and DW, I would rather take a flier on one of those young guys, or one of the many other interesting young WRs that come up on the wire, or maybe even a surprise vet on the wire before I would use up a spot for somebody that doesn't seem to have much potential to be a big deal or a game-breaker. We also haven't seen Ballard yet and what he can do with his 6-6 size, plus we still have Toone although I think his days are numbered anyhow. I also like the idea of having the option to trade a WR, but only Burleson has much trade value, so we need to take as many stabs as we can to have an extra good WR develop or present himself so that we can afford to swap him for a different positional upgrade. To me WR is a tricky spot that needs to be carefully strategized to get the most out of the group while also having potential to use it to help subsidize other areas.

Also, Schwartz sounded like he is keeping Logan for sure, since he could be a ST primary and like a 5th-6th WR along with being the 4th RB. Either way I'd be shocked to see Davis make the team, but not shocked to see anybody else make it.

[TSE]

Changes to the list after Game 3:

Moved Logan to ST list. He won't play much WR and we have too many decent WRs to choose from, don't want to let one go for free. Hughes hasn't shown enough yet to be too much of a threat to get picked up, so going to aim him for the PS, and Stovall takes Logan's spot. To make room for Logan as an extra ST player, Calloway will now be planned for the PS as well due to healthy numbers of DL keepers. If Calloway or Hughes are stolen from us, then Ballard/Toone and PItcock take their PS spots.

I like Silva for the roster, so he is off the bubble list for now, as is Calloway and DW. Rayner has a strong leg despite the ugly miss but we have too many tough cuts to consider him for even the "just missed" list. Aaron Berry also added to the bubble list as Madison has been playing decent. I prefer to keep a higher level of credibility to the toughest guys to cut by naming as few as necessary, so I added a PS list for the most worthy young guys that didn't make it.

[kellmellus50]

The lions need a competent rb to be cut by another team. They have got nothing tailback/halfback.
check out rushing stats theirs is no one standing out.

http://www.detroitlions.com/team/statistics.html