Kobe Bryant: the most overrated defender imaginable

[BlueWagon]

Here are the only metrics you need to show your super-nifty '97 MS Excel job and your conclusions are wrong. Take a look at DEFENSIVE WIN SHARE:

2011 Season: Kobe #4 SG in the entire NBA in DWS.
2009-2011 Combined: Kobe #2 SG in entire NBA in DWS.

http://bkref.com/tiny/dfRyc
http://bkref.com/tiny/ixTFy

[Nivek]

Here are the only metrics you need to show your super-nifty '97 MS Excel job and your conclusions are wrong. Take a look at DEFENSIVE WIN SHARE:

2011 Season: Kobe #4 SG in the entire NBA in DWS.
2009-2011 Combined: Kobe #2 SG in entire NBA in DWS.

http://bkref.com/tiny/dfRyc
http://bkref.com/tiny/ixTFy

Defensive Win Shares are based on defensive rating, which is a flawed stat. If you want to measure defense, you'll need far more than DWS or individual drtg.

[Ruhiel]

Only trust the Defensive Wins team leader.

http://bkref.com/tiny/dfRyc
- Here Kobe has played 2779 minutes and won 3.5 games with his DEF. 32 yo.
Minutes
Kobe Bryant 2779 3.5 wins

Jason Kidd 2653 3.9 wins
Rajon Rondo 2527 4.8 wins
Ronnie Brewer 1781 3.7 wins

most guards ie Kobe dont do much on defense compared to big men. IE Kobe has Bynum and Gasol doing the heavy lifting.

Jason Kidd has led his team in 'Defensive Rating', 'Steal %', and for his career grabs 16.1% in 'Defensive Rebound %'.
Bryant for his career has 12.6%.
2.1 steal%... Bryant is smart but not overly capable defender at this age and in the past non-committal to the defensive end for the most part.

Who exactly was he guarding over the years? Most teams did not give their shooting guards a large # of possessions for Kobe to defend because there is a dearth of SGs in the league.

Kobe has good size and length but he gets too many DEF awards...

[Jash24]

Kobe=Top 15 player ever.

Y'all haters sad?

[magic1fan]

Only trust the Defensive Wins team leader.

http://bkref.com/tiny/dfRyc
- Here Kobe has played 2779 minutes and won 3.5 games with his DEF. 32 yo.
Minutes
Kobe Bryant 2779 3.5 wins

Jason Kidd 2653 3.9 wins
Rajon Rondo 2527 4.8 wins
Ronnie Brewer 1781 3.7 wins

most guards ie Kobe dont do much on defense compared to big men. IE Kobe has Bynum and Gasol doing the heavy lifting.

Jason Kidd has led his team in 'Defensive Rating', 'Steal %', and for his career grabs 16.1% in 'Defensive Rebound %'.
Bryant for his career has 12.6%.
2.1 steal%... Bryant is smart but not overly capable defender at this age and in the past non-committal to the defensive end for the most part.

Who exactly was he guarding over the years? Most teams did not give their shooting guards a large # of possessions for Kobe to defend because there is a dearth of SGs in the league.

Kobe has good size and length but he gets too many DEF awards...

why is one stat worth any more than the other? also considering bryant does more on offense than those guys their numbers are not that far apart imo. lastly can we please stop trying to find excuses for every award kobe get's? it's starting to come off as petty and foolish,

[34Dayz]

Kobe = Great Defender from 97-02

Kobe = Average to Mediocre Defender from 03-11

I'd say he deserves 3-4 All-D awards at most.

[Nivek]

Only trust the Defensive Wins team leader.

http://bkref.com/tiny/dfRyc
- Here Kobe has played 2779 minutes and won 3.5 games with his DEF. 32 yo.
Minutes
Kobe Bryant 2779 3.5 wins

Jason Kidd 2653 3.9 wins
Rajon Rondo 2527 4.8 wins
Ronnie Brewer 1781 3.7 wins

most guards ie Kobe dont do much on defense compared to big men. IE Kobe has Bynum and Gasol doing the heavy lifting.

Jason Kidd has led his team in 'Defensive Rating', 'Steal %', and for his career grabs 16.1% in 'Defensive Rebound %'.
Bryant for his career has 12.6%.
2.1 steal%... Bryant is smart but not overly capable defender at this age and in the past non-committal to the defensive end for the most part.

Who exactly was he guarding over the years? Most teams did not give their shooting guards a large # of possessions for Kobe to defend because there is a dearth of SGs in the league.

Kobe has good size and length but he gets too many DEF awards...

Defensive Win Shares are based on individual Defensive Rating, which is a flawed stat -- as has been established REPEATEDLY in this thread and others.

[Ruhiel]

Only trust the Defensive Wins team leader.

http://bkref.com/tiny/dfRyc
- Here Kobe has played 2779 minutes and won 3.5 games with his DEF. 32 yo.
Minutes
Kobe Bryant 2779 3.5 wins

Jason Kidd 2653 3.9 wins
Rajon Rondo 2527 4.8 wins
Ronnie Brewer 1781 3.7 wins

most guards ie Kobe dont do much on defense compared to big men. IE Kobe has Bynum and Gasol doing the heavy lifting.

Jason Kidd has led his team in 'Defensive Rating', 'Steal %', and for his career grabs 16.1% in 'Defensive Rebound %'.
Bryant for his career has 12.6%.
2.1 steal%... Bryant is smart but not overly capable defender at this age and in the past non-committal to the defensive end for the most part.

Who exactly was he guarding over the years? Most teams did not give their shooting guards a large # of possessions for Kobe to defend because there is a dearth of SGs in the league.

Kobe has good size and length but he gets too many DEF awards...

Defensive Win Shares are based on individual Defensive Rating, which is a flawed stat -- as has been established REPEATEDLY in this thread and others.

So you would take Kobe's defense to win you a game over Ronnie Brewer, Rajon Rondo, Jason Kidd, and Dwyane Wade's defense?

No you would take his Offense. I've seen Bryant play a great deal. I agree with OP Bryant's defense is supremely overrated, maybe because he overexerts himself on offense but it is, sorry.

Again who is he defending? Derek Fisher had the footspeed to keep up with Ray Allen I remember.
Kobe covers less active scorers like Rondo and Westbrook.

Joe Johnson gives him trouble, Artest switches onto him, shuts him down.
If he locks down a guy like OJ Mayo or Keith Bogans he gets supreme adulation,

I agree with OP. its ridiculous I'm sorry.

[magic1fan]

ruhiel are you serious? it is starting to seem like some people just like bringing up kobe because they are guaranteed to have long threads and pad their post count. everyone acts like his defense is overrated but in head to head games with wade they both shot around the same percentage. then you say he guards guys like rondo,excuse me but isn't it a fact that as rondo goes the celtics go? if you can keep rondo out of the paint and make him more of a scorer than a facilitator then you have a better chance against the celtics. the samething applies to westbrook. that's not hiding kobe,that's kobe doing what his team needs to win. guys like ray allen are not known(especially at this stage of their career)to break guys down off the dribble. they need someone like rondo to set them up.

[Ruhiel]

I saw Wade chase Allen around screens
So are you saying the other guys I listed can't guard Rondo?
Kidd, Wade, Brewer?

Yes, they can. The reason Kobe is better is because of what he does once he gets the ball.

[Jash24]

less active scorer? westbrook was putting up like 22 ppg/55% FG% before bryant switched on to him and shut him down. and wade was torched by allen. smh.
LOL

[magic1fan]

I saw Wade chase Allen around screens
So are you saying the other guys I listed can't guard Rondo?
Kidd, Wade, Brewer?

Yes, they can. The reason Kobe is better is because of what he does once he gets the ball.

yeah you saw wade chasing allen and getting burned. look at allen's percentages when he was being guarded by wade. kobe guarding rondo and westbrook is no different than when everyone was glorifying lebron for guarding rose. those guys don't shoot as much but they are their teams engine just as much.

[Ruhiel]

The NBA All-Defensive Team is an annual National Basketball Association (NBA) honor given since the 1968–69 NBA season to the best defensive players during the regular season.

Ties have occurred several times, most recently in 2006 when Kobe Bryant and Jason Kidd tied in votes received.
Tim Duncan holds the record for the most total selections with 13 and was selected successively since his rookie year in 1998.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Kevin Garnett, and Kobe Bryant follow with eleven total honors each. Michael Jordan, Gary Payton, Kevin Garnett, and Kobe Bryant share the record for most NBA All-Defensive first team selections with nine. Pippen, Bobby Jones, and Duncan made the first team eight times each. Walt Frazier and Dennis Rodman made the All-Defensive first team seven times.

Hakeem Olajuwon of Nigeria, Patrick Ewing of Jamaica, Dikembe Mutombo of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Andrei Kirilenko of Russia, Anderson Varejão of Brazil, Thabo Sefolosha of Switzerland, and Tim Duncan and Raja Bell of the U.S. Virgin Islands are members of the NBA All-Defensive Team not born in the United States.



Now has Bryant's defense ever been on par with Duncan, Olajuwon and Garnett? Payton?
All the numbers say Wade has been superior, more dynamic defender.

At this age I can't believe it's even a question at this point.

[Jash24]

kobe--one of the best perimeter defenders in nba history. haters-u salty?

[Father Time]

Gotta agree with mystic, Kobe has been awful at closing out for the last few seasons.

[mc44]

With all the respect to Kobe its his reputation that wins him those awards lately.

[Nivek]

Only trust the Defensive Wins team leader.

http://bkref.com/tiny/dfRyc
- Here Kobe has played 2779 minutes and won 3.5 games with his DEF. 32 yo.
Minutes
Kobe Bryant 2779 3.5 wins

Jason Kidd 2653 3.9 wins
Rajon Rondo 2527 4.8 wins
Ronnie Brewer 1781 3.7 wins

most guards ie Kobe dont do much on defense compared to big men. IE Kobe has Bynum and Gasol doing the heavy lifting.

Jason Kidd has led his team in 'Defensive Rating', 'Steal %', and for his career grabs 16.1% in 'Defensive Rebound %'.
Bryant for his career has 12.6%.
2.1 steal%... Bryant is smart but not overly capable defender at this age and in the past non-committal to the defensive end for the most part.

Who exactly was he guarding over the years? Most teams did not give their shooting guards a large # of possessions for Kobe to defend because there is a dearth of SGs in the league.

Kobe has good size and length but he gets too many DEF awards...

Defensive Win Shares are based on individual Defensive Rating, which is a flawed stat -- as has been established REPEATEDLY in this thread and others.

So you would take Kobe's defense to win you a game over Ronnie Brewer, Rajon Rondo, Jason Kidd, and Dwyane Wade's defense?

No you would take his Offense. I've seen Bryant play a great deal. I agree with OP Bryant's defense is supremely overrated, maybe because he overexerts himself on offense but it is, sorry.

Again who is he defending? Derek Fisher had the footspeed to keep up with Ray Allen I remember.
Kobe covers less active scorers like Rondo and Westbrook.

Joe Johnson gives him trouble, Artest switches onto him, shuts him down.
If he locks down a guy like OJ Mayo or Keith Bogans he gets supreme adulation,

I agree with OP. its ridiculous I'm sorry.

Not sure why you quoted my post in this response. I posted in reaction to your use of the Defensive Win Shares stat. I agree that Kobe is an overrated defender.

[EvanZ]

Wait. You agreed with someone on the internet? It's not possible.

Who could blame Ruhiel for assuming any reply to his post was anything other than unflattering mockery?

In fact, I'm mocking you right now, sir.

[Nivek]

Wait. You agreed with someone on the internet? It's not possible.

Who could blame Ruhiel from assuming any reply to his post was anything other than unflattering mockery?

In fact, I'm mocking you right now, sir.

I disagree. Doesn't feel like mockery to me.

[Elden Payton]

With all the respect to Kobe its his reputation that wins him those awards his whole career.

fixed.