Post#3 » by penbeast0 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:33 am
For the nomination:
PG -- It is between the great playmaking but inefficient even for his era (especially in playoffs) Bob Cousy, and the young gun with 2 great years but only 5 1/2 years total, Chris Paul. Other candidates include the injury prone Kevin Johnson, the surprisingly efficient Chauncey Billups, and possibly Lenny Wilkens from the 60s or the purely offensive Nate Archibald or Pete Maravich from the 70s. Of them, I'd lean to Billups for the efficiency, the defense, and for helping kick the superstar laden Shaq/Kobe/KMalone/Payton Lakers in the ass; if KJ had won with that Phoenix team it would be him easily. Paul and Archibald are superb but only for a short time and that isn't always translating into team success.
Wings -- On the wings, there are still great scorers left . . . I like Alex English's consistency and all around play over the more spectacular but less consistent Bernard King, Mark Aquirre, or David Thompson, the equally consistent but less efficient and lazier defense of Dominique Wilkins or the statistically best Adrian Dantley. Not sure where to rank Hal Greer or Sam Jones's early 60s play or Ray Allen or Reggie Miller's 3 point skills. Defensively, I love Moncrief (and Dumars and Bobby Jones have a shot too but Moncrief was the most dominant at his peak) though the shortness of his peak (5 years then a major falloff) is a big issue. Still, we voted Wade in based on the same, and not even consecutive, peak . . .
Alex English v. Dominique Wilkins
Longevity peak (10 years with Denver, call it 8 year peak v. 11 years with ATL, call it 9 year peak) even
Scoring Volume -- peak never under 25 peaked at 29.8 v. 8 years in a fast paced balanced motion offense v. peak never under 25 peaked at 30.7 in a slow paced isolation offense featuring him -- even
Scoring Efficiency -- English consistently had a shooting efficiency about 30pts higher -- ENGLISH
Playmaking -- English was a more willing passer with better assist/turnover rates -- ENGLISH
Rebounding -- English started out even or better but slipped while Nique stayed strong -- WILKINS
Defense -- Nique often didn't care, English was above average -- ENGLISH
Intangibles -- Both had reps as classy men and good team leaders -- even
Team Impact -- As offensive stars, the team ORTGs (which ignore pace) averaged 4.0 for Denver during English's 8 year peak, 8.67 for Atlanta during NIque's 9 year peak -- ENGLISH
Accolades -- Contemporaries clearly favored the Human Highlight Film -- WILKINS
To me, both were classy offensive machines but the efficiency, defense and passing give it to English
Big Men -- The bigs left all have some issue with their games. Zo had health issues and was always a step behind the best like Shaq/Robinson/Duncan/etc. Willis Reed and Wes Unseld weren't as individually dominant and broke down faster too, while Neil Johnston and Mel Daniels played against inferior competition during their primes and were more limited besides. Dave Cowens was an inefficient scorer and not a great help defender though a super hustle guy. Bob McAdoo while his 5 year peak is spectacular, didn't play big man defense and his teams didn't dominate; Bob Lanier and Walt Bellamy had nice numbers but their teams weren't that much either and Detroit with Lanier sucked defensively for 9 of Lanier's 10 prime years which I consider pretty bad. Finally there is Dikembe Mutombo who was a great shot blocker and consistent player for years. Finally, Bill Walton had one great year (not that much better than Wes Unseld's MVP year) but every other year he broke down and left the Portland and San Diego teams which had built around him destroyed until he made another 1 year comeback as a top reserve. I wouldn't choose a one in eight shot at catching lightning in a bottle at the expense of a virtually guaranteed team crash the other seven over most of the above named players.
At PF, Hayes scores, rebounds, and plays defense but was inefficient and a jerk, and Bobby Jones and Dennis Rodman may be the greatest pair of defensive forwards but Jones, while extremely efficient, didn't score or rebound that much while Rodman had no offense and for 1/2 his career, left his man at times to pad his rebounding stats at the team's expense. Hayes led his team to 3 finals and a title with Wes Unseld beside him and probably was the best overall though I love Bobby Jones on almost any team.
So, Billups v. Moncrief v. English v. Hayes or Bobby Jones v. Unseld or Zo . . . For consistent dominance, it is Hayes or English, for peak pretty easily Moncrief; for now I will go with
NOMINATION: Sidney Moncrief
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
