Will you be dissapointed if this team finishes under .500

[Fairview4Life]

Good to see this team quitting in true Toronto fashion.

Year: Pre September Winning %/Post August Winning %

2001: .481/.556
2002: .437/.704
2003: .493/.731
2004: .409/.448

2005: .500/.467

2006: .515/.643
2007: .507/.536
2008: .515/.615
2009: .457/.485
2010: .523/.533

[JYD]

I don't get this talk of contending next season either...they obviously need another top 2 starter, a stopper, some other pen help, and some more bats. Maybe someone emerges, maybe a trade is pulled off, maybe there's a big FA signing...but that's a lot of things that have to come together to contend next year.

MB up there^^^ summed up my thoughts nicely.

Seems like there's an urgency because they don't want to waste Batista's prime years, but a 2 year time frame seems much more doable, where you potentially have great D up the middle in Hech and Gose and some other young bats developing..maybe a pitcher or 2 ready to jump into the rotation as well.

No sense literally selling the farm to accelerate the process..let some young talent work it's way into the lineup naturally, then look to make some moves.

[dagger]

No sense literally selling the farm to accelerate the process..let some young talent work it's way into the lineup naturally, then look to make some moves.

I agree that selling the farm is not the way to go ... unless... we land a big or biggish fish in free agency. Then trading from the middle of the farm team deck - i.e. not your very best prospects, but from the next tier - can get you another decent upgrade. And if another star in his prime, i.e. with a minimum 4-5 good year left, then you can even consider a package that includes a top prospect so long as we have depth at that position. We have minor league depth at CF as well as Rasmus at the MLB level, so maybe Gose or Marisnick is expendable in such a package. We have lots of power arms in the system, so maybe our third or fourth ranked arm would be a nice addition to a package for an established star.

What is crucial to me is that Rogers step up and try to sign a star in free agency. I fully appreciate that the Jays might strike out in this regard. Guys like Reyes, Pujols, Fielder, etc. all have ideas of where they want to play and won't necessarily come here, even for top dollar. But the Jays have to send the word out to players in both leagues and the agent community that they intend to contend. The payoff of going hard for top free agents this winter - even if the team comes up empty - is that it puts Toronto into the conversation for free agency and that could lead to a major signing for 2013.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think a 5 or so games either way from .500 doesn't really make a difference. The bigger disappointments of the season are in Snider and Drabek taking a step back.

[kwamebargnani]

No, I mean Kelly Johnson, who is one of the better defensive second basemen in the league.

That part is just flat out wrong. Johnson is frequently rated as a mediocre defensive 2nd baseman at best.

[Weems]

.500 is a 4th place finish in this division, and I don't care about some arbitrary number. I'm disappointed that we have one reliable starting pitcher (in the AL East no less), a couple holes in the field, a molesting bull pen, and that our MLB ready talent like Drabek and others have been uninspiring.

[Homer Jay]

.500 is a 4th place finish in this division, and I don't care about some arbitrary number. I'm disappointed that we have one reliable starting pitcher (in the AL East no less), a couple holes in the field, a molesting bull pen, and that our MLB ready talent like Drabek and others have been uninspiring.

Cecil has still been fairly reliable lately, his run support, OTOH has been complete shyte thou.

[Randle McMurphy]

I predicted a regression to .500 and they are living up to it.

Nobody cares what you predicted.

They have a number of major holes to fill, and until they do, they won't contend even if there are two wildcards berths next season.

I see two major holes. They need another power bat at 1B/DH and they need another dependable starting pitcher. Both are holes that can be filled in the offseason through free agency and trade. The bullpen and the bench are not a concern for a team with the Jays' system depth.

[luenell]

I predicted a regression to .500 and they are living up to it.

Nobody cares what you predicted.

They have a number of major holes to fill, and until they do, they won't contend even if there are two wildcards berths next season.

I see two major holes. They need another power bat at 1B/DH and they need another dependable starting pitcher. Both are holes that can be filled in the offseason through free agency and trade. The bullpen and the bench are not a concern for a team with the Jays' system depth.

Who in the Jays system can close a game?

[jam_bar_23]

back end of the bullpen is also a hole, albeit an easier one to fill than the other two.l

[Randle McMurphy]

I predicted a regression to .500 and they are living up to it.

Nobody cares what you predicted.

They have a number of major holes to fill, and until they do, they won't contend even if there are two wildcards berths next season.

I see two major holes. They need another power bat at 1B/DH and they need another dependable starting pitcher. Both are holes that can be filled in the offseason through free agency and trade. The bullpen and the bench are not a concern for a team with the Jays' system depth.

Who in the Jays system can close a game?

Is there something wrong with Casey Janssen that I'm missing?

[Trilogy]

This team is in a better spot than most people realize. Obviously in the pressure cooker of the AL East you need to be elite to get in, but the team isn't in dire straights like some people are going on about. We definitely should be going into next year thinking about winning. You can keep the future intact at the same time.

I agree with Randle in that the two biggest holes are 1B/DH power bat and the frontline starting pitcher. I think the former is a bigger concern because there is a lack of internal options to fill that need for a big bat. Everything is set up for a guy like Fielder/Votto/Pujols to come here slot into the cleanup spot with Bautista in front and Lawrie behind with a bunch of other good hitters too.

On the rotation front the Jays could really do with a starter, but they also have a myriad of options in the system already.

- The 6 main guys who've had some time in the bigs (Romero/Morrow/Cecil/Alvarez/McGowan/Drabek)
- The 4 young players who could get called up (Hutchison/Molina/McGuire/Jenkins)
- 4 guys who project to the pen, but could start if needed (Villanueva/Litsch/Carreno/Perez)

I think the Jays should be aggressively looking at frontline options (ie. Darvish/Wilson or trade) but this need isn't as glaring as the middle of the order bat one. I'd be disappointed if the Jays aren't aggressive in this department because of the options available but they do have a lot of guys there.

After that, the holes aren't really that bad. As has been stated before the bench is inconsequential. The bullpen is also in way better shape than most people give it credit for. There are probably 5 guys who are projecting there right now for next year.

- Janssen (lights out this year)
- Litsch (extremely good so far in his conversion)
- Villanueva (was great in the pen, should be better back there)
- Perez (nice surprise, has very good LOOGY splits though he had a prominent reverse split in the minors, so we'll see going forward)
- Carreno (looks promising so far)

That has the making of a good pen. Ideally you want one more lefty and another end of game fireballer to round it out. Not a lot of natural options coming up through the system (hopefully Farquhar gets a look in Sept despite some spotty numbers this year) so it'll likely be FA to fill them out. The pen has looked worse this year because Farrell has put his worst relievers in the closer role.

All in all, the Jays need to make sure they get the big bat at least. That's thing that absolutely need to find a way to get done.

[darth_federer]

No sense literally selling the farm to accelerate the process..let some young talent work it's way into the lineup naturally, then look to make some moves.

I agree that selling the farm is not the way to go ... unless... we land a big or biggish fish in free agency. Then trading from the middle of the farm team deck - i.e. not your very best prospects, but from the next tier - can get you another decent upgrade. And if another star in his prime, i.e. with a minimum 4-5 good year left, then you can even consider a package that includes a top prospect so long as we have depth at that position. We have minor league depth at CF as well as Rasmus at the MLB level, so maybe Gose or Marisnick is expendable in such a package. We have lots of power arms in the system, so maybe our third or fourth ranked arm would be a nice addition to a package for an established star.

What is crucial to me is that Rogers step up and try to sign a star in free agency. I fully appreciate that the Jays might strike out in this regard. Guys like Reyes, Pujols, Fielder, etc. all have ideas of where they want to play and won't necessarily come here, even for top dollar. But the Jays have to send the word out to players in both leagues and the agent community that they intend to contend. The payoff of going hard for top free agents this winter - even if the team comes up empty - is that it puts Toronto into the conversation for free agency and that could lead to a major signing for 2013.

I dont think agents really care. As a fan I hope they get an elite player but most agents and people in the business know that the Jays are back in the business. Whether its the money spent on the draft or hiring the most scouts in the league etc. They re going to look at the team and where its going. I mean Baltimore offered Texiera a boatload of cash a few years ago and he rejected them because their team was going nowhere. I dont see how whiffing on a free agent shows that we re serious about winning when there are bunch of other factors too.

[ATLTimekeeper]

This team is in a better spot than most people realize. Obviously in the pressure cooker of the AL East you need to be elite to get in, but the team isn't in dire straights like some people are going on about. We definitely should be going into next year thinking about winning. You can keep the future intact at the same time.

I'm not sure what winning even refers to in the AL right now. The Jays could finish above .500 and conceivably be the 9th best team in the league. Even if they expanded to 5 playoff teams that's 4 teams we'd have to jump.

I think we should empty the farm and go for it next year, mostly because I don't see the downside. We're not old. AA could re-stock the farm before Bautista turns 34. We have to operate more like Texas and less like Kansas City.

[Relentless88]

I wonder if King Felix will be available this off season....Jays should make an offer.