Indy pro am Jazz players (Burks and Hayward)

[reapaman]

I said slashing not attacking the basket, two different things. Slashing is scoring directly off the pass, attacking the basket is creating the shot for yourself. Richard Hamilton is an example of the former, derrick rose is the latter. I know Brewer can't attack the basket but he can slash.

In order to attack the basket alot then you have to dominate the ball. You honestly think with Harris, Jefferson, Millsap, Hayward ect.. all on the team (one of these guys being a blackhole) in addition to the fact that he's a rookie; that he's gonna get many touches let alone oppurtunites to take over? Not a chance.

[babyjax13]

Comparing burks to brewer is idiotic, they aren't similar at all. Brewer while athletic, wasn't a big time ball handler in the league, he simply didn't have the speed or the skills to break down defenders. He wasn't a shot creator. Burks on the other hand is just that. He is the shifty, smooth dribbling wing who excels at getting the defender off balance, or off his feet to get to the rim or the foul line.

I think that anyone who compares the two (including myself) is only talking about their ability to move without the ball. Burks was one of the best players in college at scoring off of cuts to the hoop without the ball, and by far the best offensive rebounding shooting guard at that level. Is that his primary allure? No, but it is certainly a skill he has and that, if utilized properly, can make him an all around weapon on offense.

[countrybama24]

Burk is gonna have to spot up shoot which is very bad news for a guy who shot 29% from the 3 on 2.5 shots from 3 a game at the college 3 line. He was also a bad mid to long range shooter from my eyes. If we still had Williams then different story but we dont.

His bad % is a function of (1) tons of pull up shots which are a lower % and (2) a bunch of off balance leaners. I think he'll improve his form a lot, just from what I've already seen in pre-draft stuff alone, but also lots of players improve as shooters if they have obvious flaws in their release in college. I bet he'll be a lot better spot up shooter than his college 3 pt % indicates. Not a sniper by any means, but I mean... we dealt with ronnie brewer at the 2. He's a huge upgrade, I think he'll at least be a threat from deep (30-33% from deep rookie year).

[Xsy]

Burk's shot can only improve with better team mates. Reminder: Colorado sucked.

[erudite23]

Iirc, Burks' problem as a shooter stemmed from the fact that he took a ton of off-the-dribble pull up shots, and was terrible at them. He was much better off the catch or when spotting up. I might be confusing him with someone else, though. DX did a profile on him it wouldn't be too hard to check, but I'm too lazy right now.


Also, the ONLY question on Burks will be how he responds to not having the ball in his hands. If he can learn to be effective within the flow of the offense, I can't see him failing in the league. That's the key for him, imo.

[reapaman]

Burk's shot can only improve with better team mates. Reminder: Colorado sucked.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't remember any player who's 3 pt % didn't take a huge dip from their college season to their rookie nba season when shooting a comparible amount of 3 point attempts. That also goes for their mid to long range jumpers. Second, honestly his team wasn't much worse than Jimmer's BYU teams or stephen Curry's Davidson teams and they both shot fine in college. Don't make excuses for him, Burks is just not a good shooter overall.

It usually takes 5-6 years for a guy to get anywhere near their college 3 pt shooting percentages and their jump shot percentages in general. Their mabey some I overlooked but you guys are saying he's gonna do something that either never been done or is extremely rare.

[countrybama24]

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Can do, just a few examples from the last couple of drafts (last year of college --> rookie year)

Al-Farouq Aminu 27.3 --> .315
Gordon Hayward 29.4 --> .473
James Harden .356 --> .375
Wes Matthews 36.8 --> .382
Stephen Curry .387 ---> .437
Brandon Jennings (europe, I know) 26.8 ---> 37.4
Eric Gordon .337 ---> .389

I could go on.... and don't even get me started about improvement after their rookie year.

[reapaman]

Nice try, you gotta take into account 3 PT attempts. You know better than that I would hope. I'll give you Aminu but everyone else took a hit, mabey not a gigantic hit but a noticable hit.

[Xsy]

I'm just sayin', when you're handling the ball in a large majority of possessions like Burks did, and then are gifted a real team with real team mates who can get you open shots like the Jazz can do, we've got ourselves a better shooting guard.

[countrybama24]

Nice try, you gotta take into account 3 PT attempts. You know better than that I would hope. I'll give you Aminu but everyone else took a hit, mabey not a gigantic hit but a noticable hit.

You don't think burks will attempt less per game in the NBA as a bench 4th or 5th option than at CU as the 1st, 2nd and 3rd option? See the above posts about why his looks in the NBA will be of far higher quality. I think he's more analogous to Hayward in terms of role shift (although he obvi won't post as ridiculous a jump). Also, you're post was pretty unqualified in it's assertion that it takes years and years to reach ones college %, I'm just saying its not at all rare. Also all those players shot the ball plenty as a rookie, so even with less attempts (which burks will obviously be attempting a bunch less as well), it still illustrates he won't necessarily be an awful option from deep.

I'm too lazy to check, but I'm willing to bet Jennings took a ton of shots (maybe more) as a rookie, Gordon too, and you already spotted me aminu, so in a mere cursory glance... my prediction about burks wouldn't be an anomaly at all.