How do Clips have Minny's pick?

[Tirion]

I don't know the reason for Flip's opinions, but I know what I saw. It's also obvious from the trade McHale made that he thought Cassell was a cancer, whether he publicly said so or not.

And what did you saw?
McHale's relationship with Sam deteriorated by 2005 and that's no secret, but how did you jump from that to "he thought Cassell was a cancer". From what I heard, he really liked Jaric. If he wanted to just dump Sam's contract, he could've done it without giving up the 1st round pick.

[Worm Guts]

I don't know the reason for Flip's opinions, but I know what I saw. It's also obvious from the trade McHale made that he thought Cassell was a cancer, whether he publicly said so or not.

And what did you saw?
McHale's relationship with Sam deteriorated by 2005 and that's no secret, but how did you jump from that to "he thought Cassell was a cancer". From what I heard, he really liked Jaric. If he wanted to just dump Sam's contract, he could've done it without giving up the 1st round pick.

I saw Cassell not playing up to his ability, deliberately. McHale liked Jaric, but everyone knew Cassell was the better player including McHale.

[Tirion]

I don't know the reason for Flip's opinions, but I know what I saw. It's also obvious from the trade McHale made that he thought Cassell was a cancer, whether he publicly said so or not.

And what did you saw?
McHale's relationship with Sam deteriorated by 2005 and that's no secret, but how did you jump from that to "he thought Cassell was a cancer". From what I heard, he really liked Jaric. If he wanted to just dump Sam's contract, he could've done it without giving up the 1st round pick.

I saw Cassell not playing up to his ability, deliberately. McHale liked Jaric, but everyone knew Cassell was the better player including McHale.

And that could've happened due to injuries, right? Are you willing to at least entertain that thought? Look, I'm not painting Sam as a saint, he had his share of personal issues: didn't like to practice, tried to be the hero too often, always whined about being under-appreciated, underpaid, etc. But he was never a team cancer. All his former coaches love him, even George Karl.

[Worm Guts]

What I saw wasn't due to injuries unless he injured his brain. He was deliberately making bad plays. There's plenty of reports of him being a cancer, it's why we got him so cheap from Milwaukee. It's just how he rolled, he was great when he first joined a team then he'd get upset about his contract and pout until the team was forced to trade him. Minnesota isn't the only place it happened.

[Klomp]

Cassell's departure was not unexpected. Near the end of the regular season, with the team teetering on missing the playoffs, Minnesota owner Glen Taylor called the addition of Cassell and Sprewell two years ago a "failed experiment."

http://www.spursreport.com/forums/spurs ... post635449

[Tirion]

What I saw wasn't due to injuries unless he injured his brain. He was deliberately making bad plays. There's plenty of reports of him being a cancer, it's why we got him so cheap from Milwaukee. It's just how he rolled, he was great when he first joined a team then he'd get upset about his contract and pout until the team was forced to trade him. Minnesota isn't the only place it happened.

So far you're just dancing around my question, can you cite examples at least?

There is plenty of "reports" about everything, it's just another false media narrative, like KG supposedly folding during big moments or Kobe being the most clutch player in the league. There is a lot of evidence about Sam being a great teammate from players and coaches and pretty much zero talk about him being a cancer. How does a former team cancer becomes a coach in this league anyway? NBA is a closed club, everybody knows everybody, and if Sam's actually ruined his teams' chemistry, as people here claim, don't you think he'd find it difficult to get hired as a coach? Look what happened to Rick Barry.

[john2jer]

Didn't Cassell and Sprewell both skip the preseason media day as a protest to not getting new contracts?

[Tirion]

Didn't Cassell and Sprewell both skip the preseason media day as a protest to not getting new contracts?

Sam did, Spree didn't.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1630038

[Worm Guts]

So far you're just dancing around my question, can you cite examples at least?.

Two specific plays I remember him not passing to Wally. I remember those plays because you could see the players reacting to the nonpass. Once KG took the ball from Cassell and passed it directly to Wally, it seemed like KG was trying to make a statement. Another time Cassell didn't pass to Wally wide open underneath the basket, the next time down the court Wally hit a wide open meanlingless shot (the game was decided) and celebrated like he won the NBA championship. It was an obvious FU to Cassell.

There is plenty of "reports" about everything, it's just another false media narrative, like KG supposedly folding during big moments or Kobe being the most clutch player in the league. There is a lot of evidence about Sam being a great teammate from players and coaches and pretty much zero talk about him being a cancer. How does a former team cancer becomes a coach in this league anyway? NBA is a closed club, everybody knows everybody, and if Sam's actually ruined his teams' chemistry, as people here claim, don't you think he'd find it difficult to get hired as a coach? Look what happened to Rick Barry.

Why a does good player play for 8 teams and get repeatedly get traded for lesser players? I think thats far more telling than getting an opportunity as a coach.
Unlike Barry, Sam wasn't an ass all the time so that might the difference.

[Tirion]

So far you're just dancing around my question, can you cite examples at least?.

Two specific plays I remember him not passing to Wally. I remember those plays because you could see the players reacting to the nonpass. Once KG took the ball from Cassell and passed it directly to Wally, it seemed like KG was trying to make a statement. Another time Cassell didn't pass to Wally wide open underneath the basket, the next time down the court Wally hit a wide open meanlingless shot (the game was decided) and celebrated like he won the NBA championship. It was an obvious FU to Cassell.

I've seen KG himself not passing to Wally when he was wide open numerous times. That's not a good thing, but it happens and from what I know Wally was as much at fault as KG/Sam.

There is plenty of "reports" about everything, it's just another false media narrative, like KG supposedly folding during big moments or Kobe being the most clutch player in the league. There is a lot of evidence about Sam being a great teammate from players and coaches and pretty much zero talk about him being a cancer. How does a former team cancer becomes a coach in this league anyway? NBA is a closed club, everybody knows everybody, and if Sam's actually ruined his teams' chemistry, as people here claim, don't you think he'd find it difficult to get hired as a coach? Look what happened to Rick Barry.

Why a does good player play for 8 teams and get repeatedly get traded for lesser players? I think thats far more telling than getting an opportunity as a coach.
Unlike Barry, Sam wasn't an ass all the time so that might the difference.

Robert Horry was a journeyman too, and was never called nothing less than a true professional (even despite Danny Ainge incident). So were Jim Jackson and Joe Smith to name a few. Heck even Moses Malone changed teams nine times.

[john2jer]

Didn't Cassell and Sprewell both skip the preseason media day as a protest to not getting new contracts?

Sam did, Spree didn't.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1630038

No, I'm talking the next season. The story you just linked was from the start of the 2003-2004 season when they went to the WCF. I'm talking the media day before the 2004 season after they both spent the summer bitching about not getting new deals and Sprewell made the "feed my family" comment.

Found it. BOO-YAH! Cassell is the son of Satan, and here's the proof:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/basketball/nba/10/05/cassell.ap/index.html

[Tirion]

Didn't Cassell and Sprewell both skip the preseason media day as a protest to not getting new contracts?

Sam did, Spree didn't.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1630038

No, I'm talking the next season. The story you just linked was from the start of the 2003-2004 season when they went to the WCF. I'm talking the media day before the 2004 season after they both spent the summer bitching about not getting new deals and Sprewell made the "feed my family" comment.

Found it. BOO-YAH! Cassell is the son of Satan, and here's the proof:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/basketball/nba/10/05/cassell.ap/index.html

Yeah, that's why I posted that article, you're mixing it with previous year. Spree attended media day in 2004.

[john2jer]

No, I'm talking the next season. The story you just linked was from the start of the 2003-2004 season when they went to the WCF. I'm talking the media day before the 2004 season after they both spent the summer bitching about not getting new deals and Sprewell made the "feed my family" comment.

Found it. BOO-YAH! Cassell is the son of Satan, and here's the proof:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/basketball/nba/10/05/cassell.ap/index.html

Yeah, that's why I posted that article, you're mixing it with previous year. Spree attended media day in 2004.

Ok that's great and all, but isn't the discussion about Cassell? Feel free to ignore the Spree part of my post. Cassell purposely wasn't there to protest not getting extended. That was the start of the Cassell is a cancer season.

[Tirion]

Ok that's great and all, but isn't the discussion about Cassell? Feel free to ignore the Spree part of my post. Cassell purposely wasn't there to protest not getting extended. That was the start of the Cassell is a cancer season.

I don't see him missing the Media Day as being a cancer. It was a public negotiation tactic, a posturing ploy. Players do this kind of thing pretty often in contract negotiations; publicly complaining, threatening to hold out, etc. Heck the entire league is in the lockout right now partly because of that.

[john2jer]

I don't see players holding out and owners locking out players as the same thing.

And I said it was the start of his cancerous season. Didn't say that moment alone made him a cancer. Seriously...?

[Tirion]

I don't see players holding out and owners locking out players as the same thing.

And I said it was the start of his cancerous season. Didn't say that moment alone made him a cancer. Seriously...?

The real cancer that season was McHale, who failed in contract negotiations, failed to address team need for a center and a true backup point guard, and then panicked and made one of the worst trades in franchise history.

[john2jer]

Oh no doubt, it was a terrible trade, and McHale made a bonehead move, but to pin all the blame on McHale is wrong.

[Tirion]

Oh no doubt, it was a terrible trade, and McHale made a bonehead move, but to pin all the blame on McHale is wrong.

The blame also goes to Flip, who put Wally and Kandiman in the starting five instead of Hassell and Johnson. That move killed Wolves defense on the perimeter and Kandi provided no weakside help (or any help for that matter). Spree was washed up and not a starter material at that point, but Flip didn't have the balls to bench his ass, which messed with the pecking order. McHale should've traded Spree's expiring contract at the deadline, but didn't (cause Taylor wanted to save money by letting him expire).