OT: Question on Moderation

[from24ft]

I would like to hear peoples opinions about how this forum is moderated. This is not a challenge to the establishment at all. I would just like the hear others opinions if a clamp down on excessive verbiage is necessary, and does it promote or stifle debate?

I personally have never reported a user, or influenced moderation in any way. I kind of like the wild west approach when it comes to the forums, your words will make you sink or swim. People are not stupid they can make up their own mind and there is no need for censorship, provided its not hate speech, but even if it is hate speech, I want to see it. I want to know who the idiot is.

At times I get frustrated, because when I do insult someone, it is usually for logical deficiency. If I am wrong in my assessment, I end up looking like the fool. So I think it works both ways and it needs to be seen.


I also find that personal opinion has been prevalent in moderation issues. This is understandable, mods are human, but this IMO is even more of a reason to let things resolve themselves and only interject when absolutely necessary. (which should be rare)


I don't like mods, that feel they have to stick their nose into every debate, and say "HERE I AM, I AM A MOD!". I understand the urge to do this, but at the same time the mods need to understand the subsequent frustrations that users experience from these sorts of tactics.


I may be totally wrong on all of this, which is why I have made this thread and really would like others to give their opinions on mods going on power trips. When you stop someone from speaking, it is a power trip. I don't mind the mod getting into the debate, and expressing his opinion and why he feels its wrong, that is awesome! But sheer censorship and DELETION, is a way to express POWER over others.



EDIT: I don't want this thread to turn into a personal attack against any mod. Just the discussion of moderation itself. Some of the mods, that are accused of the above give a lot of time to this forum and should be commended for that. At the same time, if we have issues, I think we can discuss them without making it personal and allowing everyone to take points from such a discussion. Mods and posters.

[Athar]

When you stop someone from speaking, it is a power trip. I don't mind the mod getting into the debate, and expressing his opinion and why he feels its wrong, that is awesome! But sheer censorship and DELETION, is a way to express POWER over others.

Couldn't agree more with this.

[team edward]

Don't challenge the mods, it will certainly lead to your demise. They never forget.

IBTL

[True Warrior Zo]

I politely disagree. I think you are discounting all the behind the scenes work the mods do. While I have no issues with your posts, there are some real characters on this board. Could you imagine Contender with his 50 different aliases all posting at once. There are A LOT of users that come through this board on a given day, if everyone had free reign, you would be reading 3 pages of STFU and GTFO for every 1 serious post.

Do the mods sometimes go too far, sure. Are there off topic threads that I think could have real potential, yes. But at the end of the day they are doing more good than harm. I actually prefer the board in its current state where you can actually read threads and have discussions, rather than a bunch of emotionally charged kids posting one word in a game thread. Have you ever tried having a discussion in that thread? It's not worth the energy.

[EG73]

There is no excessive moderation.
It is possible to discuss about basketball and have different opinions without having to be agressive or doing personnal attacks.

[C Court]

Mods do a great job, often in difficult circumstances and they do it on a volunteer basis. If you are unahppy with this board, there are other Raptor discussion boards you can join.

[from24ft]

Mods do a great job, often in difficult circumstances and they do it on a volunteer basis. If you are unahppy with this board, there are other Raptor discussion boards you can join.

Why would I go to another forum without trying to resolve the issue here?

You may have not felt moderation, but I have. If someone says something stupid or ignorant, I think I am well within my right to call them stupid and ignorant.


This forum was a much better place for expression a few years ago, IMO.

EDIT: If my insult is based on the STATED opinion on this forum, I feel it is fair. If it is unrelated to the point being expressed that is another issue.

[Rhettmatic]

If someone says something stupid or ignorant, I think I am well within my right to call them stupid and ignorant.

You aren't, though. It's a private forum and the administrators have created rules, and it's the mods' job to try to enforce those rules fairly. Rules like this one, clearly stated at the top of the board:

2. Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users. This applies to ALL users, regardless of post count, forum rank or perceived status at RealGM. Flaming, trolling or abusing users in any way will not be tolerated and will lead to a warning.

You might prefer a board where people can insult each other freely, and you're free to find a board like that or start one yourself. But the people who run RealGM feel that this board is better if personal insults aren't tolerated.

And personally, I would have no interest in a board where people just hurl invective at one another. But there are plenty of places like that on the Internet, if it's what you're looking for.

[from24ft]

I think there is a difference between insulting users, and insulting their opinions on a given subject.


I think that some of the best posters on these forums show their emotions on a given subject. It is part of our humanity in a way, we are not robots.


Being truthful, and saying that someone has a poor understanding of logic, or is playing devils advocate without understanding the core issue should be allowed.

[from24ft]

...and be truthful, how much does personal like and dislike play into moderation?

Do you guys really think that its not a factor?


I don't care if I am liked on this forum, I am here only to express my opinion. I am not here to make friends. I am here to be challenged and have interesting debates with others. I actually respect those that make me see the fault of my argument.

[Alfred]

Having interesting debates doesn't mean being able to insult other people.

If you ever participated in an IRL debate before, you'd know that you can very easily debate someone without having to hurl insults at the other person.

I've been a member of boards where there's very little moderation, but those tend to be more tightly knit communities, where the posters moderate themselves. I think this forum is so large and diverse (read: there are more than a couple immature posters), that giving everyone carte blanche would be a mistake.

[Crazy-Canuck]

There has to be some form of moderation unless you like hearing racial slurs and every other derogatory remark available etc.. on a regular basis; especially on this board.

[C Court]

Mods do a great job, often in difficult circumstances and they do it on a volunteer basis. If you are unahppy with this board, there are other Raptor discussion boards you can join.

Why would I go to another forum without trying to resolve the issue here?

RealGM is a private business which generates revenues in excess of $1 million annually. If you are unhappy with the 'free' service you receive from RealGM, then you can take your business elsewhere.

[timdunkit]

I think there is a difference between insulting users, and insulting their opinions on a given subject.


I think that some of the best posters on these forums show their emotions on a given subject. It is part of our humanity in a way, we are not robots.


Being truthful, and saying that someone has a poor understanding of logic, or is playing devils advocate without understanding the core issue should be allowed.

You may think that ... but there always someone who doesn't ... the Mods on this board do a great job of trying to keep it clean and structured around here.

[J-Roc]

This forum is halfway between other forums I go on. There's one, the digital home canada forum, and the main guy there won't let any threads run off on a tangent...at all. And he deletes posts, too, on a whim. Very frustrating. At the same time, his purpose is so that if you are looking for information, you only have to read through one relevant thread.

Then there are the hacker forums (pirated material, etc.) where it's a total free for all. It's kind of fun being able to say what you want....what "everyone's thinking". But then when you're looking for information, you can't tell which thread is the right one, and if a thread does go off on a tangent, you don't know when/if it will get back on track.

As for insulting other posters, you should only ever say what you would say in person. And usually you don't just call the other guy stupid, you just argue the point. In fact, you don't normally tell someone to their face that what they're thinking is "stupid". Those words aren't said.

[from24ft]

I feel I have been respectable to those that challenge my argument based on debate and logic. I enjoy debate, the more rational the better.


At the same time, if you try to disparage me by relegating me into some sort of black/white bs, I will put you in your place.


I truly feel this forum is a bit better when the mods are a little hands off.

EDIT: A no mans land would be nice, absent of moderation, threads that get to be too much can get moved there, and all strings are off.

EDIT2: Let people take their aggression out, dampening it, only means its going to sputter and come out in leaks in other forms.

[Crazy-Canuck]

I feel I have been respectable to those that challenge my argument based on debate and logic. I enjoy debate, the more rational the better.
.

But poster like you are very far and few. The internet tough guy stereotypes are there for a reason. There arent many that can engage in a conversation without taking it personal.

[from24ft]

I feel I have been respectable to those that challenge my argument based on debate and logic. I enjoy debate, the more rational the better.
.

But poster like you are very far and few. The internet tough guy stereotypes are there for a reason. There aren't many that can engage in a conversation without taking it personal.

It takes practice.

This is why regulation prevents the lessons that need to be learned. I agree with you, things should not result into stupid insults, but if the post is on topic, and the idea itself is being insulted... and to some extent this may be personal to the poster, they should learn to deal with it.

This is true of politics and public life, you stick out your neck, expect people to try to chop it off. I think these are all important lessons that can only be learned by being thrown into the fire.

EDIT: BTW, I have been posting since BBS days on fidonet, 300bps modem and all... so I have seen it all and I feel I am talking from experience.

[Crazy-Canuck]

I feel I have been respectable to those that challenge my argument based on debate and logic. I enjoy debate, the more rational the better.
.

But poster like you are very far and few. The internet tough guy stereotypes are there for a reason. There aren't many that can engage in a conversation without taking it personal.

It takes practice.

This is why regulation prevents the lessons that need to be learned. I agree with you, things should not result into stupid insults, but if the post is on topic, and the idea itself is being insulted... and to some extent this may be personal to the poster, they should learn to deal with it.

This is true of politics and public life, you stick out your neck, expect people to try to chop it off. I think these are all important lessons that can only be learned by being thrown into the fire.

yes, but it also takes a level of maturity that is rare for the masses on a public forum. Some people are asses to be just asses.

[Calderon]

I feel I have been respectable to those that challenge my argument based on debate and logic. I enjoy debate, the more rational the better.


At the same time, if you try to disparage me by relegating me into some sort of black/white bs, I will put you in your place.


I truly feel this forum is a bit better when the mods are a little hands off.

EDIT: A no mans land would be nice, absent of moderation, threads that get to be too much can get moved there, and all strings are off.

EDIT2: Let people take their aggression out, dampening it, only means its going to sputter and come out in leaks in other forms.

Why is a "no mans land" necessary for a board like this? It's an NBA team board, anything that doesn't fall under that topic probably belongs somewhere else. If you want a mostly unmoderated message board why don't you go to one that already exists instead of expecting a Toronto Raptors board to cater that to you?

If people can't learn to use logic and reason instead of aggression in discussions then the problem lies within themselves and not with the moderation team.