91-98 Keeper Playoffs (START JUDGING)

[-Kees-]

Rebuttal to the Rebuttal

1. That was with a declining Rodman. I chose him in 91/92, where he was much better defensively. Taking samples only from the year of your player doesn't show anything. Taking a year in between them would make more sense and give us the most accurate results because neither is at their peak.

93/94 season:
1st time they met:
Kemp: 10/7/4, 5 of 8, 6 fouls
Rodman: 8/13/4, 4 of 6, 4 fouls

2nd time:
Kemp: 23/7/4, 10 of 17, 4 fouls
Rodman: 4/8/3, 2 of 3, 4 fouls

3rd:
Kemp: 14/14/1, 6 of 15, 6 fouls
Rodman: 4/16/1, 2 of 3, 2 fouls

4th:
Kemp: 15/7/1, 5/12, 4 fouls
Rodman: 7/18/2, 2 of 6, 3 fouls

Averages:
Kemp: 15.5/8.8/2.5, 26 of 52 (50%), 5 fouls per game (fouled out twice)
Rodman: 5.8/13.8/2.5, 10 of 18 ((56%), 3.3 fouls per game (didn't foul out)

This shows that in a medium stage (Kemp would get better in your selected year, Rodman was better in my selected year) that Rodman could slow down Kemp to below his averages and that Rodman could still get plenty of rebounds (13.8 RPG against Kemp over 4 games).

2. Ok I thought you chose him the year before, my bad. This still shows that Duncan was near even statistically.

Duncan: 21.1/11.9/2.7/2.5, .549 FG%
Dougherty: 21.3/10.4/3.3/1.1, .570 FG%

Duncan now has a bigger advantage on the boards, near even on the PPG, and still has a considerable margin on the BPG. Passing (I admit) Duncan didn't have until about his 3rd year, but still. Also, Daugherty played closer to the basket than Timmy, especially Duncan's first year. Shooting 55% from mid range/post is better IMO than 57% from close range.

3. I understand that Magic was still an MVP candidate. But at 31, his body was older. He was still good, yes, but slower than he used to be, didn't have as much lateral quickness. A young Finley should be able to beat Magic much easier than if Magic was 5 years younger.


No body is saying AI is going to be my spacer. He will shoot three's, not at a high rate, but he's not who I am debating. Finley is a career 38% 3PT shooter, and he shot 36% in the year we took him. He was always very good at moving without the ball to create space. During his Dallas days, he always played off Dirk and he was always a very good catch and shoot guy.

Pippen also knew how to spread the floor. As I mentioned earlier, Pippen and Jordan shared the ball handling duties, both played on and off ball. With AI or Rod ball handling, Pippen could get open for threes or layups. He shot 34.5% from beyond the arc in the year I chose him. He was also a very excellent slasher.

I'm not saying that Magic was a bad player (he was a great player, still very good in the year you chose him) but both him and Payton always had the ball in their hands. King did too. All of them had high USG%, and were used to playing with the ball in their hands. Payton just isn't a good shooter, Magic played with the ball in his hands through his whole career (see high APG #'s) and King lead the league in USG% the year you chose him. I just don't see how 3 ball handlers and no spacers will be effective against a top defensive team like mine.

The fact that you pointed out that King was the best player on his team just proves my point further. He is used to having to carry the offense, and with GP and Magic both needing the ball, I just don't see how that will be a good fit, or why my team couldn't just pack guys in the paint because your team has very little spacing on the starting line.

The stats you provided for King, aren't useful. I chose Pippen in 95, I'm not sure why you chose 91 stats. They just favor your player with out giving any credit to mine, which makes the stats irrelevant because I chose 95 Pippen, not 91.

[Snakebites]

Snakebites vs. Kees

Rodman and rookie Iverson together on a team with no solid leadership? Pu-lease.

Check out the numbers. Was Tim Duncan as a rookie REALLY that much better than Vin Baker.

Scottie Pippen wasn't even the best player on his team, but he's arguably this teams' best player.

Michael Finley....well, he barely even managed 23 points per game.

Tim Duncan didn't even manage to win a championship as a rookie. Just sayin.

These points should allow me to carry the day against my otherwise obviously superior opponent...somehow. Yeah.



________________________________________________________________________________________

Snakebites vs. Warspite:
Starters:

Isiah Thomas
Allan Houston
Eddie Johnson
Vin Baker
Theo Ratliff

Key bench: Nick Van Exel, Rick Mahorn, Tracy Mcgrady (raw post high school version)

Opponent:

Magic 34mpg/GP 34mpg/Phills 28mpg
King 32mpg/Lewis 16mpg
Daugherty 32mpg/Kemp 32mpg/Willis 32mpg

This is the classic David vs. Goliath matchup. The young inexperienced team goes up against the veteran juggernaut.

Let us, for a moment, ignore the fact that Warspite has every discernable offensive and defensive advantage and superior rebounding. Ignore, for a moment, that he wins each individual matchup (though the Sonics sure seemed to think Baker was better than Kemp....). In other words, ignore what your eyes tell you about this matchup.

Did David just give up and say "well, Goliath is bigger, stronger, and faster" and get down on his knees to take his medicine? I should think not. He took his glorified sling shot and claimed what was his. And that's exactly what Team Snakebites is going to do in this matchup.

YOU CAN'T PROVE OTHERWISE!

[SamBone]

rebuttal for MJ

This matchup boils down to efficiency. If SB's game plan is to run the ball through Malone, this would make Tim Hardaway or Ray Allen play the role of spot up shooter. I'm assuming Ray Allen would play that role. If that's the case, then we'll play Latrell Sprewell [NBA 1st team defense] on the already inefficient Hardaway (40% FG) and allow Mark Price and John Starks [NBA Defensive 2nd team] to switch off on sophomore year Ray Allen.

Interesting facts: In the given year, Tim Hardaway averaged 17 FGA per game on (40%) shooting as the primary option on offense.

and still was 1st team All NBA, he must have sucked!

And an even more Interesting fact: In the given year, (I assume it should be 94, not 93 that is listed) Spreewell was named to his only career All Defensive selection, but 2nd team! Never in his career has he ever been named to a Defensive 1st team

Yes, Tim Hardaway did have a 41.5 fg%, and a 53.2 TS% that season in Miami he was relyed on to carry the offense and shot more then he typically did. In my offense running the pick and roll, he will be in a much different situation, And with the other major mismatches for Mullin and now Allen, Timmy will be feading the others alot more then he will be crossing over Spree. That leaves the shorter, weaker and slower Price to defend ray Allen, and that will adjust is offense production in this series a ton! Ray is way more athletic (remember back then Ray also was a slam dunk participant). Ray also was a solid post up player against smaller unathletic defenders, and that is something I would exploit. I can see a lot of iso plays with Ray in the post. Ray should blow up if he is being guarded by the 6ft, 170lb Price

Also note that Spreewell in his selected season had a very similar FG% (43.3 which is also the 2nd highest of his career) and the exact same TS% as Timmy, so if my PG that is used to distribute the ball is considered inefficient, what is the SG that is the 2nd option offensive option on MJ’s team considered?

Outside of the Malone, SB's front court lacks the talent to match up. Mullin in this matchup is a spot up shooter and Jayson Williams, while talented can't guard Mourning. Steve Smith's versatility would give the declining Mullin fits, With Malone guarding Barkley, Williams would be forced to defend Alonzo Mourning 1-1.

1. lacks talent? Really have you ever seen prime Chris Mullin play?

This version of Chris Mullin was one of the most talented players in the NBA, confirmed by the fact that he was All NBA 1st team. And was a main contributor on the Dream Team. This Mullin was almost unstoppable, not only did he score 22.3 ppg(3rd in league) but he had a .524 FG% (.618 TS%) and always got to the FT line at a very high rate (at was almost automatic from the line). ‘spot up shooter” don’t make get to the line at the rate Mullin did at this point in his career.

2. The “declining Mullin” ? really?

Are you talking about the guy that in Steve Smith’s selected season (2 years after Mullin’s) scored 18 on 56.3% shooting along with 10 reb (Smith had 10 points and was 5/14 from the field). My version of Mullin scored 21 (61.5% shooting) against Smith (2 points on 1 of 9 shooting) in ’92.

3. The trio of Jayson Williams, Marcus Camby and Olden Polynese will match up with Zo. Zo is not an offensive force that can dominate a game. His bread and butter was the 10-15 ft jumper, with his face to the basket. Obviously he will still score some points and do damage, but no way can he carry the offense.

vs Olden: Zo averaged 24pts and 8reb in 2 games (Polynice averaged 19pts and 11reb)
vs Camby: Zo was contained to an 18.7 and 9 average in 3 games (Camby was 16/7.5)
vs Jayson: Zo average 17points and 13 reb in 2 games (Jayson was 9.5 pts and 14 reb)

so Zo did not light up any of my BIGS when they played head to head, and his biggest scoring numbers were also against the guy he gave up the most points against. Again, Zo will score some points, but in no way does he dominate the series

With SB's team being built solely around Karl, our primary goal would be to frustrate Malone on both sides of the floor. We'll use the 3 headed defensive monster: Barkley, Mourning and Oakley along with our skilled offensive big men: Barkley, Zo and do it all big man Detlef Schrempf.

My team is not “solely” built around Karl Malone. My team IS BUILT AROUND KARL”S STYLE OF PLAY. Yes Karl is the MVP of the league and is the focal point of my offense, but I have him surrounded with 2 other 1st team All NBA players, who can also dominate games and matcups. The key is that they also play within the style of play that my team has. My big 4, all play very well running the floor. They also FIT perfectly in the pick and roll half court offense that Mailman thrived in during his career, and Timmy has the playmaking and shooting skills to run that offense.

If Detlef is going to try to check Mailman, series is over for mj, that’s plain and simple

When Oak is on Mailman, there will defiantly be some bruises, I can tell you that much. During Oakley’s selected season, Malone had 24.5 ppg and 13.5 rebs in the 2 games (Karl was 25.2ppg and 11.5 on that season)
During Mailman’s selected season (27.4/ 9.9) Karl averaged 31 and 12 in the 2 games Oakley defended him.

So no Mailman stopper there either

Now to the MAIN matchup

Charles Barkey is great, I wish the Sixers would have given him the talent that PHX did.

1992 / 1993 Barkley: MVP, All NBA (1st team), All Star
25.6ppg, 12.2reb, 5.1asst, 1.6steals, .520 FG%
.585 TS%, .521eFG%, 18.1 TReb%, 14.2 TOV%,
115 O rating, 105 D rating, 7 off win shares, 3.5 def win shares, 10.5 win shares

1996 / 1997 Malone: MVP, All Defensive (1st team), All NBA (1st team), All Star
27.4ppg, 9.9reb, 4.5asst, 1.4steals, .550 FG%,
.600 TS%, .550 eFG%, 16.8 TReb%, 11.1 TOV%, 34.5 asst%,
118 O rating, 101 D rating, 11.2 off win shares, 5.1 def win shares, 16.7 win share

As you see, once you get to the advanced stats (which I think is needed when compairing 2 studs like this), you will see that Karl is better in almost every single category. And I fully expect for Karl to limit Charles stats a lot more then Charles will lower Mailman’s. Add to that the fact that Karl’s are better to begin with, Mailman defiantly wins this head to head

SUMMARY:
Zo will outplay my C’s, but can not dominate a series offensively
Mailman outplays Chuck
Mullin owns S.Smith
Ray Allen owns M.Price
Hardaway will not be slowed down by Spree
I am a much better fitting team that runs great off eachother
Mario Elie goes off just like he does in the Finals of his selected season
Big Dog eats up Detlef

And one more quote from my man MJ

Great job by SB! He put together a really solid team that compliments Karl Malone perfectly.

[TMACFORMVP]

vs. MJallDay59

MJ has built a terrific team, I love the backcourt and frontcourt; it's definitely among the better teams in the competition, and poses a very tough match-up. Honestly, may the best team win; which my team fully intends to do so.

Shaq stats v. Zo

Code: Select all

1 - 29/15 on 11-18
2 - 29/10 on 11-21
3 - 19/8 on 6-15
4 - 36/9 on 17-20
5 - 37/16 on 15-23
6 - 46/20 on 20-32
7 - 35/15 on 14-25
8 - 34/15 on 13-21
9 - 31/10 on 11-24
10 - 31/14 on 12-26


AVERAGE: 32.7 PPG, 13.2 RPG on .577

I think the x-factor in this series is Dominique Wilkins. I don't think MJ has anyone on his roster who can guard him. Steve Smith is a SG, and Schrempf wasn't known for his defense. I think the obvious thing to do would be put Sprewell on Nique, and put Smith on Dumars.

Here are Nique's #'s in '94 against Sprewell (the year chosen for Spree), and keep in mind Nique's '94 season wasn't remotely as good as the season he had in '93 (the season chosen for Nique). They played 5 times that season:

39 points, 7 rebounds on 16-27.
38 points, 8 rebounds on 13-28.
29 points, 11 rebounds on 12-19.
24 points, 6 rebounds on 11-23.
37 points, 10 rebounds on 16-27.

AVERAGE: 33.4 PPG, 8.4 RPG on 68-124 (.548).

Also, in Smith's chosen season ('94), he faced off with Dumars four times. Again keep in mind, Dumar's '94 season wasn't as good as the chosen '93 season. Dumars whooped on Smith and the Heat, and that's likely what will happen here considering Smith on Nique would be an even worse option.

AVERAGE: 23.7 PPG, 4.2 APG on 33-69 (.478).

KJ and Price pretty much hit their peaks at the same time, and declined at the same time. Unfortunately they don't face each other as many times as they should have, b/c of injuries, but here are KJ's #'s.

16 points, 15 assists on 4-11.
16 points, 11 assists on 7-13.
16 points, 12 assists on 6-12.
30 points, 12 assists on 11-20.
23 points, 17 assists on 9-18.
14 points, 18 assists on 6-13.
21 points, 3 assists on 9-17.
26 points, 7 assists on 9-17.

AVERAGE: 20.2 PPG, 11.8 APG on .504

- It's worth mentioning that Zo shot .439% against Shaq in the same sample size used above.
- From '94 to '97 in 6 GAMES, Spree's stats against Dumars were: 14.5 PPG on .337 shooting.
- We're not stopping Barkley, but we think we can limit him from exploding; we think we have solid defensive personnel for him to not dominate the series to an extent that he'd carry them to a victory. For anyone that's interested, Barkley v. Perkins; he does roughly 22/13 on 54-55%, and against Robinson, he does 24/10 on 53%. If we can keep him to his averages, we think we have the personnel to slow down the rest of his supporting cast and win the series.

Ultimately, I think we have slightly better defensive matchups, while posing more offensive mis-matches for MJ's team.

[TMACFORMVP]

vs. SamBone.

Always a pleasure to face a guy like SamBone. I'd like to congratulate him for winning the last era, he did a fantastic job of building a team in that era, and has done it again in this one. I think it sets up for an interesting matchup, and may the best team win; which my team fully intends to do so.

I look at it like this. SamBone's defense is very weak - if the plan to is station the centers out on offense to draw Shaq out, then Shaq will have the ability to roam, because none of Camby, Williams, nor Polynice deserve significant defensive attention (especially from the outside). We'll leave them out there, and be pleased with the results. And if Camby is roaming, when he's forced to guard perimeter big men in Perkins, or Uncle Cliffy, then they'll feast off the open shots. This itself makes our defense much more potent - a Shaq that's able to roam will put fear in opposing perimeter players to get in the paint. Factor in, we have Dumars to effectively guard Ray Allen, and seeing an over dependence on Mario Ellie, our defense has the personnel to slow down the supporting cast. With Ellie in the game, we can switch off with Dumars to guard Mullin, and have Nique play on the spot up shooter in Ellie. There is similar versatility when Barry enters the game. We could have KJ guard Allen, Nique guard Barry, and have Dumars guard Mullin, or even have the option to put Dumars on Mullin full time considering he's a greater threat than Allen at this point to beat us. KJ was a solid defender -- was even assigned the task, and did a better job of guarding Jordan than All-NBA defender Dan Majerle (though Jordan killed them both in the end). He won't do too much to slow down Hardaway, but we're confident he will limit him to the point that Hardaway won't dominate the series.

It's worth noting in the season Bone chose, Hardaway was a 41% shooter (.532 TS%) that was terrible in the playoffs with averages of 18/7 on roughly 36% from the floor. Before KJ's personal decline in the playoffs is brought up, I'd like to bring it to the attention that he got injured before the post-season started, and was playing with a hamstring injury which completely affected his game (archives say he should not have been playing). In the regular season however, KJ was a 22/10 threat that shot 52% from the floor (over .600 TS%) and was the best player on a team that won 55 games. Kevin Johnson is simply put, a considerably better player than Tim Hardaway - and that should reflect when matched up together.

BTW, from 90-92, here's how KJ fared against Hardaway.

Code: Select all

(11 GAMES) - 23.0 PPG, 12.6 APG on 45% from the field.

Hardaway in those games did roughly 20/9 on 41% from the floor. Keep in mind, this is the more prolific statistical Hardaway as well.

As for Karl Malone, he'll get his. He's a very good player, but at the very least we like Perkins interior sort defense to put on the body of Malone, similarly with Clifford Robinson as well. We even have Shaq to throw at him at times, and honestly with a player of Malone's caliber, that's the best you can do. Have multiple bodies to throw at him, and it's helpful that my three main big men can defend as well.

I also have to question the defense of the bench as well. Barry was not a good defender, Ellie was solid, but I've never got the impression he was overly that good. Glenn Robinson wasn't particularly good either, similar concerns with Polynice despite advanced stats. Ray Allen is a second year player that didn't have too much impact on a poor Bucks teams, and wasn't noted for his defense till his years with Boston. Even then, he isn't a good defender, nor is Mullin, and Hardaway has already been highlighted to have not done much against KJ. Camby was good, and Williams was solid; but they'll be taken out of the paint to guard Perkins, and Robinson who were perimeter oriented big men. That severely hurts SamBone's positioning for rebounding as well. Our bench uses Dumars in a backup PG role, has Christie for some versatility defensively, and Clifford Robinson who helps stretch the floor with very good man defense as well. The only very good defender I see is Karl Malone, and Shaq was still able to get his against Malone (27/11 on 54% with 3 blocks for career average). It's essentially a poor perimeter defense, with no defensive anchor which sets up for our offense to dominate.

Our defense has more versatility; Dumars on the perimeter, Shaq able to roam, Perkins, Robinson with the ability to go inside/out, Christie playing spot minutes off the bench, etc. Then consider no real offense at the center spot, and strict spot up shooters in Ellie or Barry being in the game, it makes the offense easier to guard.

Offensively, there are no conflicting touches on our roster. I want to make this point clear; Nique took exactly the same amount of shots that Kobe Bryant did in '01, when the Lakers won the championship. The difference? Nique made more, which as a result, scored more. I don't think people realize how good Nique was in his prime.

I'd like to link a post I made in the #26 All-Time thread about the sort of impact Nique had:
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1129346&start=30

In '93, Nique averaged 30/7/3 on 47% from the field, and 38% from three (finishing top 10 in the league in three point makes). I don't think we realize how special that sort of season is from a scoring perspective. In NBA history, there have only been 12 seasons in where a player has done 28+ PPG on at least 45% from the field and 35% from three (with over half a three made per game):

Jordan (4x), Bird (3x), TMac (1x), Durant (1x), Bryant (2x).

I'm not trying to say his peak is on par with some of these guys, but I think we should realize Nique did have efficient seasons scoring the ball, with one season where he was just ridiculous. (His efficiency difference between wins/losses for that Hawks team was incredible, in 39 wins, he did 33/7/4 on .596 TS, in their 31 losses, he did 26/7/3 on .535 TS. He had two months shooting the ball at a 50/40/83 rate, while putting up 34 and 31 PPG respectively those months. A real underlooked season, despite a short playoff exit - where they lost to the '93 Chicago Bulls).

There's more in the post about how Nique consistently anchored one of the leagues better offenses despite a poor offensive supporting cast. How he was actually a well above average rebounder at the SF position; didn't make mistakes with the ball (look at his TOV''s), and had efficient seasons scoring the ball. Not to mention the Hawks record with/without Nique, and the data that shows he took them from a well below average offensive team, to one of the top 5 in the league. Then consider the teams Nique lost to throughout his career in his prime (in the post-season); 86 Celtics, '87 Pistons, '88 Celtics, '89 Bucks, '91 Pistons, '93 Bulls - then how much can we really blame him?

Nique averaged 28/7/3 on 51% against Mullin for his career. Mullin played very well however as well, but we have more options to throw at him, while Bone doesn't have that sort of versatility. '93 is arguably the best season for Nique's career (check the quote), and he should be able to do whatever he wants against Mullin. KJ has proven he's very good against Hardaway, and Shaq has shown he'll still get his (and that's a lot, 29/12 in the chosen season, leading his team to the NBA Finals). Then factor in our PF's will do their job in stretching the floor, while Dumars should have his way with a young Ray Allen on both ends, I don't see how in any way our offense can be stopped.

I haven't even mentioned Petrovic, who in his prime an All-NBA player that moved beautifully off the ball, and was ridiculous from everywhere on the court. Heck, he was better than Ray Allen by a considerable margin in this era. And reiterating the point that Shaq is able to roam, and Uncle Cliffy or Perkins will be open all game long (if Camby is indeed free to roam), then offensively, our team creates too many mis-matches, and unfavorable matchups for Bone's team.

As for team fit, Nique played more on the perimeter this season than Kobe, Wade, or even Penny did. Shaq has proven to fit with other high volume scorers, Dumars, Robinson and Perkins are the epitome of players that can fit into any role because of their all rounded games, and KJ provides a third option that's shown to have taken a lesser role with Barkley, or the leading role as the best player on a 50+ win team.

Ultimately, I think we feel we have a stronger gameplan to effectively limit SamBone's offense enough (with non factors at the center position offensively, our defensive versatility, and few questionable bench pieces in a competition like this); while they have no answer for our offensive attack, because of the lack of defense. Better both offensively, and defensively should lead us to victory in this series.

Best of luck SamBone.

[MJallday59]

Few points:

rebuttal for MJ
and still was 1st team All NBA, he must have sucked!

I said Tim shot 41% percent...I never said he sucked....that was all you sir....


Mark Price in 1993 was an NBA 1st team selection next to Michael Jordan, Hakeem, Malone and Barkley. The same could be said for Tiny Tim… but Ray Allen was a sophomore in the league still trying to put his game together. I think you're confusing Ray Allen's entire career, with the years we're selecting in this matchup. Mark Price was not only an efficient scoring option with 18 PPG on 48% Shooting, but his ability to guard off ball was also solid as well. Mark Price was not the scrub you're making him out to be.

And an even more Interesting fact: In the given year, (I assume it should be 94, not 93 that is listed) Spreewell was named to his only career All Defensive selection, but 2nd team! Never in his career has he ever been named to a Defensive 1st team

Thanks for the history lesson..but If we're using peak years..does it matter if Sprewell ever made all 1st team D? I mean really? Again…Peak vs Career


Chris Mullin was a slight. In my initial writeup I posted Mullin (97).

The great part about my team is it's versatility:

If we slide Barkley to the 3 spot he dominates Mullin. Putting Zo on Malone with Schrempf on Williams.

[SamBone]

her rebuttal (and final) Good luck mj!

part 2

but Ray Allen was a sophomore in the league still trying to put his game together. I think you're confusing Ray Allen's entire career, with the years we're selecting in this matchup. Mark Price was not only an efficient scoring option with 18 PPG on 48% Shooting, but his ability to guard off ball was also solid as well. Mark Price was not the scrub you're making him out to be.

I never called Price a scrub or said anything negative about him other then the fact that the 6ft tall 170lb slow PG (who is a great shooter) could not defend the then much more athletic, taller and stronger Ray Allen, who you dismiss as being a 2nd year player. I look at Ray as a guy who scored 19.5 ppg on 43% shooting (54 % TS%) who also had 5 rebounds and almost 4.5 assts and was athletic enough to be in the Slam Dunk contest that same season. I am simply stating that a small less athletic player who is 5 inches shorter would not be able to defend him. Ray can take him down on the block and eat him alive is the only point I am making. Price was a phenomenal shooter, but he is not big strong enough or quick enough to guard a player 5 inches taller then him.

Thanks for the history lesson..but If we're using peak years..does it matter if Sprewell ever made all 1st team D? I mean really? Again…Peak vs Career

well when you sell a player in your writeup as a 1st team defender, I was simply pointing out the FACT that it was untrue and that you were selling a guy as something that is was not and never was.

[SamBone]

I do see that TMAC just finally got a chance for his writeup, sorry Idont have tme to do a rebuttal (well timed my man!)

The only thing that keeps popping up is how he is selling Shaq as is roamer on defense. I was under the uderstanding that that would be called "illegal defense", and give me FT attempt. And do you really think Shaq has the speed to om around then content a shot from a slasher on the other side of the court?

well since you are pointing ot stats of Hardaway from 90-92 while in GS instead of the 1997 Hardaway is using that was All NBA 1st teamer and finished 4th in MVP voting.

During that season KJ averaged 10.5 ppg and 6 assists on 29.4% shooting Since you didn't post selected season, I can assume that was the KJ you were using

good luck man

[-Kees-]

I forgot to post a writeup to Snakebites, and I dont wanna get marked down because I didnt

Isiah Thomas
Allan Houston
Eddie Johnson
Vin Baker
Theo Ratliff

Key bench: Nick Van Exel, Rick Mahorn, Tracy Mcgrady

Their team is built for the future, not now. Isiah, at this point in his career, is just an above average PG, Houston isn't much more than a shooter, and Ratlif hadn't begun to really block shot at a freak rate yet. Tim Duncan should be able to post up their bigs all day. AI should be able to breeze by Isiah with his crossover. Pippen and Rodman should be able to shut down Johnson/Baker like nothing.

I think that I win this matchup in a fairly quick fashion.

[RR9]

RR9:

Terry Porter/Hornacek/Cassell
Clyde Drexler/Kobe
Mashburn
Mchale/Divac
Ben Wallace

I'm preparing my team for a run in the next era. Porter and Drexler will dominate the back court and kobe will contribute a little bit. Mashburn had a pretty solid start. Mchale is Mchale. Divac and Wallace will develop into an unstoppable front court with BW being DPOY and Divac a strong scorer and blocker.

[Miller4ever]

I'm going to start off by saying I really admire Sabonis and Parish as a duo at center, but Sabonis doesn't stand a chance at keeping up with Robinson in this series. Let's go back to 96, the selected year for Sabonis and close to the season I selected for Robinson. Here are Robinson's stats head-to-head:

DRob:
20 points, 21 rebounds, 8 blocks, 2 assists, 2 steals (8-21 shooting, 4-10 FT)
39 points, 9 rebounds, 8 blocks, 3 assists, 3 steals (17-31 shooting, 5-7 FT)
25 points, 13 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 blocks (5-10 shooting, 15-19 FT)

Sabonis:
11 points, 10 rebounds (3-14 shooting)
16 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists (5-8 shooting)
22 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists (7-10 shooting)

As you can see, Sabonis in his prime gets pretty close to his regular production, but Robinson had 3 very beastly performances against Sabonis this year. I believe Robinson's athleticism, quickness and defensive intensity with leave Sabonis overmatched.

If you include minutes played and the fact that he had inconsistent touches, Sabonis' impact is very different. In that first game, Arvydas does 11 and 10 in 20 minutes, while David Robinson plays 44. Game two Arvydas plays 28 minutes to the Admiral's 42. Game 3 Robinson posts 25 and 13 in 38 minutes and Arvydas posts 22 and 9 and 3 assists in just 26 minutes of play. Arvydas' per-minute production on the boards is better, and his points are not far behind. DRob was also a good passer on offense, but Arvydas is a great passer.

I also want to bring attention to the fact Miller claims Buck Williams is a better defender than Horace Grant. I disagree with this claim and think that at this point of their careers (even if Williams was all defensive 1st team), Grant is a slightly more impactful player on both ends of the floor. In the 91 Bulls Championship season Grant did 11/9/3 over the entire course of the playoffs (rebounding leader of the playoffs) and when Buck Williams and the Blazers went head-to-head with the Bulls in the FInals, Williams only produced 7 points/7 boards a game.

Williams produced 7.8 and 7.3 to Horace's 9.3 and 7.8 and Horace played more minutes (more meaningful minutes. Buck's 18 minutes in game 1 was the result of some seriously disjointed rotating, while I'm willing to bet Phil Jackson is the better coach.)

[MJallday59]

vs Tmac [Great team dude]


- I think the duo of Mourning and Oakley should give Shaq a few problems in this matchup. Stop him? No chance...but I think we can limit his effectiveness

- I think Barkley's offensive output is what carries this team to the next round. There's nobody who can stop him.

[lukekarts]

MJ vs SamBone.

This is an interesting matchup, two of my all time favourites in Tim and Zo. To a certain extent, I like the way SamBone's team is constructed. Allen an Mullin provide a lot of floor spacing, there is a lot of experience, and Hardaway should facilitate well.

That said, there seems to be a very easily exploitable weakness in the interior, Jayson Williams never went beyond being a good rebounder - his defence wasn't notable at all, and whilst young Camby was a good blocker, he was a poor rebounder and his actual defence didn't really have much of an impact on team success - the Raptors were 26th in defensive rating despite future defensive stalwart Doug Christie playing alongside. SamBone tries to counter this by playing a 3rd center in Polynice but like Williams he had his flaws. In all honesty I see SamBone struggling to contain Zo, either defensively or on the boards, throughout this series.

This will also impact his team's defence, as switching to Barkley or slashers like Sprewell becomes much more difficult.

Barkley and Malone meanwhile should have a pretty good fun matchup, neither able to contain the other throughout their career and I'm finding it difficult to separate the two here. I can see Mullin easily exploiting Smith, but I don't see it as a difference maker in the series - with Hardaway hassled by Sprewell, it is Ray Allen who will likely see most of the ball from the perimeter. I'm not sure at this stage Ray Ray was mature enough or efficient enough to really make the difference.

Summary: I give the nod to MJ here. Despite slight advantages in the backcourt, it is so difficult to get behind a team that lacks a defensive anchor of any sort. MJ's slashers, and Zo, should get their way; SamBone can't rely on Malone here in a matchup where Barkley will match him play for play.


TMAC vs SamBone

Interesting matchup by SamBone here. I wasn't quite sure how Malone would cope with Shaq over a prolonged series, but having just watched some clips on Youtube, it appears Ostertag, Carr and Foster rotated on Shaq. Shaq did have a sub-par series but nothing to do with Malone.

Deferring the responsibility to Malone will like take it's toll at the other end, and whilst I'm not for one minute suggesting Shaq will destroy Malone - Malone at this point was a better rebounder - it's going to make the front courts very evenly matched. More importantly, I think Shaq will have more of an impact on team defence, being able roam more freely whilst having an easier matchup. Whilst Ray Allen was a good shooter at the time, he was more of a slashing guard and this will clearly lessen his impact, with perhaps only Mullin equipped with the tools to create space without driving.

I've never been Dominque's biggest fan but I think he's more than capable of shouldering the offensive load here, without going against team success. Johnson was a great creator and should be able distribute well, and even as a Hardaway fan I concede that prime Johnson was the better player. I don't think SamBone is well enough equipped to limit TMac on the perimeter, whilst the best backcourt defender in this matchup is Dumars, who should be able to severely dent Ray Allens confidence.

Summary: Again SamBone's team defence let's him down. I don't think anyone will limit Shaq or Nique, TMac's biggest offensive threats; whilst whoever SamBone plays at Center effectively is a non-factor, and Allen will have a tough individual assignment. Malone will get his, but then so will Shaq; I don't think the quality of SamBone's perimeter is as good as TMac's and the latter will win the series.


TMAC vs MJAllday

Well, Shaq vs. Zo, both matched up in their selected season. For my own benefit, I looked at their match ups:

Alonzo - 31 points (50%), 9 rebounds, 4.6 blocks
Shaq O' - 28 points (60%), 16.6 rebounds, 3.3 blocks

WOW. Pretty much sums up what I was going to say; Zo couldn't stop Shaq but Shaq couldn't stop Zo either. Both massively upped their games in their head to heads, and Shaq had the advantage offensively and on the boards. But Zo was still pretty darn impressive.

This matchup is going to be tough to decide, so I'm gonna type and think. TMac's best offensive weapons, Shaq and Wilkins, are going to have an easy series. But Zo and Barkley too will have an easy series. Neither team seems equipped with the right individual defenders to make a difference.

Edit: I'm going with MJ on this one. I think Barkley at this time is the most impactful player in the series. Shaq / Zo won't cancel each other out, but I feel the difference between PF's is greater than the difference in Centers, and ultimately I can't find a gap as big in the backcourts as I can here.

[CellarDoor]

Warspite | Snakebites | Keeslinator Warspite 2-0, Kees 1-1, Snake's team retires

TMAC | MJallDay59 | SamBone Waiting til Tuesday.


Miller | RR9 | bryant08 Bryant 2-0, Miller 1-1, RR9 0-2

Kees is running into a team that will likely give his backcourt trouble. I think Warspite's lack of defense will catch up to him, but not against a team with a lack of offensive dominance.
I'm buying Miller keeping MJ occupies enough to negate his normal amazing help D while DRob outplays Sabonis. I also buy Ho Grant and Stockton as the better defenders in their match-ups at this stage..

[Snakebites]

Cellar 2-0, Luke 1-1, BI 0-2

Hakeem with an extremely talented and potent perimeter combination in place has control of this bracket. He's the best player in this bracket and probably even has the best supporting cast. Luke vs. BI is a little closer, but luke's team is a little better adapted to winning in this era and I think his sound construction and really strong spacing help him carry this matchup.

TMAC 2-0, Mj 1-1, Sam Bone 0-2

Honestly MJ would have been able to make a legitimate run at this if he'd done a proper writeup against TMAC. As of now, the best indicators for this matchup are the sound set of statistics TMAC represented, and without a strong counter argument I see no reason not to vote that way. Sam Bone's team is poised to be dangerous next era but falls short defensively in this era.

Bryant 2-0, Miller 1-1, RR9 0-2

RR9's team could have been built to get era points, but he opted for the future route. Bryant and Miller were a difficult matchup to evaluate. Both teams were soundly constructed on both ends of the floor and presented some interesting matchups. Ultimately I think Bryant has advantages at 3 of the 5 positions and I also think LJ will present a challenge for a young KG to defend against. Though Jordan presents a difficult challenge in this matchup for Bryant's defense, I'm inclined to agree with Bryant's general assessment.

[BlackIce]

War: 2-0, Kees: 1-1, Snake: 0-2

Warspite's backcourt targets Kees's biggest weakness. Magic/Payton is really something to behold and he has enough upfront to win this matchup. I think Finely on King was a questionable move, but with Magic sitting there I don't blame Kees. Tough matchup. Snake has built a scary team for next era.

Bryant: 2-0, Miller: 1-1, RR9: 0-2

Reggie and Jordan had some epic matchups, and I think that while Jordan clearly gets his and then some he will have to guard a very potent player on the other end. If KG was in his prime I'd vote differently but this young version will have trouble. I also think the PG and C matchups weigh heavily in favor of Bryant. RR9 looks poised to make a strong run next era.

T-Mac: 2-0. MJ: 1-1. Sambone: 0-2

I may have voted for MJ if he had a longer/stronger writeup but he didn't so I have to go T-Mac. Sambone doesn't have a defensive anchor at C, and is facing two teams with juggernauts at the position. I watched Camby in his TOR days (tape anyways) and he wasn't a strong man defender. I like his team for the future though.

[lukekarts]

Warpsite vs. Snake

Warspite wins.

Kees vs. Snake

Kees wins

Warspite vs. Kees

Interesting matchup, Warspite opting for an unconventional lineup featuring two point guards and an athletic front court but with a mixture of accomplishments.

Whilst Payton gives an interesting matchup problem for Iverson, I still expect Iverson to get his points. That said, Iverson's points won't be all that efficient, and Pippen will have to share handling duties to control the tempo.

I really like the combination of Pippen and Rodman defensively, both will effectively give Magic and Kemp the toughest individual match ups in this series. Finley however will struggle with King, who was a supremely effective scorer even towards the end of his career. On the flip side, King will struggle with Pippen and Scottie may well have career numbers as he exploits this matchup now he's in his prime.

This series I expect will go to 7 games, and contrary to opinion so far, I'm leaning towards Kees. Whilst Duncan wasn't close to his best I think face to face he matches up well with Daugherty, and adds a greater defensive presence.

I think Kees will edge the battle on the boards (having looked in more detail, Rodman has the advantage over Kemp) and I find it very difficult to vote against a superior defensive front court.

Sorry Warspite; I love your team PG->SF but I think you're just lacking that one key man up front to really take hold of this game defensively.

[lukekarts]

Bryant def RR9

Miller def RR9

It looks to me that despite the presence of McHale, RR9 is tooling more for the next era.

Firstly on Bryant's team; I love the construction. Dominant Center, do it all PF, hard working SF, great shooting SG, and veteran leader and true PG in Stockton.

For Miller, it's a little different. I love MJ of course, but I think the rest of Miller's team is inferior to the teams Michael Jordan played with during this era. In particular, whilst I think Williams and Grant can effectively render each other out of this matchup, Robinson will easily have his way against Sabonis in the front court, and Stockton should control his matchup with Blaylock. And that's not a knock on the latter, Mookie was a good defender but Stockton always had the better of him.

Ultimately, I'm of the opinion that bryant's structured team should control the tempo; Robinson will patrol the paint and control the boards, Miller will provide spacing for everyone to operate, and Stockton will run the team efficiently.

It's so hard voting against Jordan but I don't think he will be the x-factor in this series.

[-Kees-]

Cellar 2-0, Luke 1-1, BI 0-2

BI just didn't quite have enough to push through this round, Muntumbo/Webber is great, but Hakeem and Nance and Ewing and Rasheed are better, and Mitch can't make up the difference. I give the nod to Cellar here because I don't see a prolific scorer on Luke's team on the perimeter. Worthy was good, but a lot was due to Magic, Kidd wasn't a scorer, and Rice was a shooter. No one to take over games, and down low, you aren't going to beat prime Hakeem.

MJ 2-0, TMAC 1-1, SamBone 0-2

SamBone is in last because there is a lack of guard play and center play. Just not quite the same level as the others. In the other matchup, the scoring will be unstoppable on both sides. Price and KJ can't slow each other down, Barkley can't be stopped, neither can Shaq. The list goes on and on of unstoppable players lol. However, I think this Shaq wasn't quite as big as he would get, and Zo would be somewhat able to slow him down, better than he would at a later time. Sprewell played great D the year he was chosen, and he also is a great offensive threat. I don't know, I just think that with the matchups and such, that MJ's team will pull this one out. But great matchup for sure.

Bryant 2-0, Miller 1-1, RR9 0-2

RR9 is building for the future, and not a big threat. MJ really is the only advantage that Miller has, Bryant's overall team (esp. Robinson) will be too much for Miller's team this round.

[TMACFORMVP]

Warspite 2-0, Kees 1-1, Snake 0-2.

I think War v. Kees is an interesting matchup with different team dynamics. An offense v. defense sort clash. I'm not sure how much I agree with War that Daugherty was as good as Duncan; as underrated as I find Daugherty to be, Duncan was essentially Daugherty on offense with elite anchoring ability of a defense (Duncan also posted 25/12 post all-star break in his rookie season). Rodman will make his impact be felt, and I think Kees did a good job of picking his earlier years with Detroit. I think if there was any team Iverson would be able to succeed on, it would be this one, but it's important to note he wasn't the same explosive player he would become later in his career. I think Magic and Payton will likely overwhelm the backcourt of Iverson and Finley which would lead us to the conclusion having to be that Kees's frontcourt will dominate and to a point that it makes him come out on top in the series. Unfortunately, saying what I did earlier about Duncan/Daugherty, both should play well in the series, Kemp will still get his, Willis will make a nice impact off the bench, and King should provide another scorer that fits well within the offense.

Cellar 2-0, lukekarts 1-1, BlackIce 0-2

I think Ewing is very underrated, and with the stats provided by luke, we see that Sheed plays very well against Webber in this era as well. Rice is not a SG, but offensively it works, and provides another much needed dangerous scorer for luke's team (I'd have preferred someone with more an ability to break defenses, but at that point, Rice was a steal). I would have loved it if BI had tried, considering he could have made it an interesting matchup, but I still think luke's overall scheme is greater. The matchup with Cellar/luke is better than I had originally thought, unfortunately Hakeem had Ewing's number, and that won't erase in my mind despite the regular season statistics. Cellar brings up some good #'s of Rice v. Hill as well. I think Cellar got a steal in Penny in the second round, not sure why he didn't go earlier. I think luke will give him a tough matchup, I think Cellar overstates Worthy's dependence on Magic (he is still playing with Kidd and other very good players), but his perimeter and interior are just more productive, which makes him come out on top.

Bryant 2-0, Miller4ever 1-1, RR9 0-2

RR9 actually has a real good team; I just don't know about starting Wallace at this point, especially over Divac, who is a 16/10 guy at this point. I think he'll put a nice series, but ultimately, the other two teams are better as RR9 decided to build for the future. bryant v. Miller is the toughest one for me. I think Miller has tremendous rebounding, but bryant has one of the few frontcourts that would actually out-rebound Miller's. Defensively, Miller is stronger, but I'm unsure of where other significant offensive impact will come from -- everyone on bryant's team should be big factors offensively, and I disagree with the notion that Buck was better than Grant at this point of their careers. And with DRob/Grant, and some versatility on the wings defensively off the bench, and Stockton getting in the passing lanes, bryant's defense is pretty solid. I think these are the two best teams in the era in terms of fit and role. Jordan will dominate, and that should be stressed. But offensively, can he overcome, arguable greater offensive production at 4/5 positions, while Reggie isn't a slouch either. I just think there's a little more firepower on bryant's side.