Pacers | Lakers

WillyJakkz · Post #1 » by **WillyJakkz** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:34 pm

Andrew Bynum

Why: W/ the acquisition of PG George Hill the Pacers cash in on promising young players PG Darren Collison and C Roy Hibbert who now would be replaced by young franchise C Andrew Bynum who'd be able to be much more of a low post scoring threat w/ the Pacers than he is in LA. He'd have a great complimentary PF in Tyler Hansbrough whose hustle/ energy crashing the boards would work great w/ Bynum as the main offensive low post threat while also giving stud SF Danny Granger another weapon to try to win the East/ NBA Title.

Lakers: Collison| Bryant| World Peace| Gasol| Hibbert

Roy Hibbert

Darren Collison

Why: Lakers re-tool the PG & C position by acquiring promising young players Darren Collison (who makes his way back to LA) & Roy Hibbert who'd become the new project for Lakers legend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to work w/ as he's still kinda raw offensively but experienced enough to make an impact lining up w/ PF Pau Gasol while Collison brings his defense and young legs to the backcourt to help HoF SG Kobe Bryant on the perimeter. Posey is expiring ($7M) and added to make the numbers work.

They say the team that gets the better player wins the trade but I think both teams gain moving forward.

Deal?

tiderulz · Post #2 » by **tiderulz** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:41 pm

why would Indian replace Hibbert, who is a very good, developing player, along with a good PG, with Bynum who cant stay healthy?

Doddage · Post #3 » by **Doddage** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:54 pm

Obvious no for the Pacers.

DerrickNoah · Post #4 » by **DerrickNoah** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:27 pm

I like the value for both teams. Bynum's health is the wild card.

BossHoggin · Post #5 » by **BossHoggin** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:51 pm

Terrible

Doormatt · Post #6 » by **Doormatt** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:16 pm

I think Bynum is one of those players people can't look at objectively on this board, I think it's because hes a laker, and has been overrated in the past (and even now). That said, he's CLEARLY better than Hibbert, and probably has more potential as well. I understand people are wary of his injury problems, but he's really, really good when healthy, almost dominant. He can anchor a defense, and provide very efficient post scoring, and he's been working on passing out of the post as well, so he's not so much of a black hole anymore.

So yes injuries are an issue of concern, and I'm not saying he has star type value, but to insinuate this trade is terrible because Bynum, even with his problems, isn't the clear cut best player is ridiculous imo.

Post #7 » by **Trader_Joe** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:31 pm

It's borderline terrible, in that it's a quick and easy no for Indiana.
Besides the obvious with Bynum (injuries) he's only under contract for 2 more years and then an unrestricted FA. Collison and Hibbert are near locks to be returning as restricted FAs. I'm not sure I can see Bynum settling down long term in Indiana.

jowglenn · Post #8 » by **jowglenn** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:06 am

Even if we accept that Bynum is clearly better than Hibbert (and I'll accept that) this deal is monstrously stupid for the Pacers.

1. $$$$$$.

Would you rather pay Andrew Bynum $30 million over the next 2 years, or pay Darren Collison $4 million, Roy Hibbert $6 million, and then have all that other money to spend on ANOTHER player (someone we get in FA or via trade using our cap space)? I'm pretty sure Collison + Hibbert + 3rd player at $10 mil a year is going to be much better for the Pacers than Bynum.

2. Injury.

In the last 4 seasons, Bynum has averaged like 50 games a year. In his total 3 seasons in the league, hibbert has averaged like 76 games a year.

Now certainly things could change - Bynum could be much healthier for no reason, and Hibbert could start getting injured more. But let's base our predictions on some level of reality and accept that you're probably getting more games out of hibbert.

So ultimately, do you want to pay Andrew Bynum $30 million to play 100 games for you over 2 seasons, and then quite possibly leave for no compensation.... or do you want to pay Collison and Hibbert $10 million (total) over the next 2 years to play 150 games each? And then pay another guy $15-20 million to also play a large number of games, let's say 140.

I would rather have 450 games of play out of 3 guys as good as hibbert, collison, and FA X over 100 games of play out of Bynum. Any day of any week ever for all time.

vincecarter4pres · Post #9 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:14 am

How do you expect to pay Hibbert 6 million in 2 years?

He'll be on some 5 year 50 to 70 million dollar semi-albatross in year 3 contract if the CBA is similar.

This is an easy yes for Indiana opposed to what others are saying IMHO.

Sure Bynum is an injury risk and has been overrated compared to what he's shown, but he blows Hibbert out of the water, who has become incredibly overrated by anyone calling him anything better then average.

In all reality, he's too inconsistent for my tastes to even call him average if he didn't play the second weakest position in the league and wasn't a legit 7+ feet tall.

It's not even really that big a risk for Indiana, losing Hibbert because Bynum continues to fall prey to his suspect health isn't that big a loss.

jowglenn · Post #10 » by **jowglenn** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:43 am

Wow you really cannot understand that Bynum on a 15 mil a year contract (and likely to leave after those 2 years) isn't as good as collison on a rookie contract (who you can extend for future) plus hibbert on a rookie contract (and won't be extended for some 'albatross' contract - an albatross is what bynum is).

I know that Bynum is better than Hibbert. But Indy has so many other ways of trying to get talent on the team - we have tons of cap space, teams will need to make dumps, 3-ways, etc, and we'll get our players. Giving up 2 good guys on rookie contracts for an overpaid injury-prone center is just extreme folly.

vincecarter4pres · Post #11 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:55 am

jowglenn wrote:Wow you really cannot understand that Bynum on a 15 mil a year contract (and likely to leave after those 2 years) isn't as good as collison on a rookie contract (who you can extend for future) plus hibbert on a rookie contract (and won't be extended for some 'albatross' contract - an albatross is what bynum is).

I know that Bynum is better than Hibbert. But Indy has so many other ways of trying to get talent on the team - we have tons of cap space, teams will need to make dumps, 3-ways, etc, and we'll get our players. Giving up 2 good guys on rookie contracts for an overpaid injury-prone center is just extreme folly.

Meh.

Collison is an average point guard if you're feeling generous and I don't see much upside.

Hibbert is on rookie level money for one last season.

You don't replace talent and star power with mediocre starters and big shiny cap space that equates to nothing if you have to overpay scrubs like the Nets and so many other teams have had to, or if you use it in trade for other overrated bums like Al Jefferson and Kevin Martin.

NBA rosters are constantly turned over.

Committing to mediocre starters for no other reason then "they're good guys"(as in players, before you get to it, I know what you meant) is a recipe for failure in the NBA.

If the player isn't a star or your team isn't already set up with your cornerstone pieces, there's no reason to worry about keeping so so role players long term.

When deals like this come up, you jump on them.

High level players are always paid big money, when Bynum's healthy, he's worth it.

And I'm really not sure what you're expecting Hibbert to get paid, but 50 for 5 would seem like his minimum if he's willing to take a hometown discount and you locked him up on an extension now.

Whether he's very good or not, some stupid team will throw 70 over 5 at him if he makes it to free agency and you'll be forced to match.

To keep it simple, Bynum could easily be a 18/10 stud with solid defense given a bigger role, although he's obviously not going to stay as efficient as he is now.

Collison is easily replaceable and more or less Hibbert is too, but because he's so tall you're going to scream foul and tell me how I don't watch the games or else I wouldn't say that.

old rem · Post #12 » by **old rem** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:02 pm

tiderulz wrote:why would Indian replace Hibbert, who is a very good, developing player, along with a good PG, with Bynum who cant stay healthy?

At this point, they would not. Until Bynum has at least one whole year where those knees cease to look chronic,his appeal is limited. You don't trade a quality C for one so risky. While Bynum can be better sometimes, that's irrelevant if he my miss a month or a season or if he's a plodder by the time he's 26. Salary is also a factor here.

Wydmuch · Post #13 » by **Wydmuch** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:01 pm

For the Pacers an easy no. They would be in the exact same spot where they are now with Collison and Hibbert (or even worse, cause they at least PLAY GAMES).

For the Lakers its a very interesting proposition. Fisher isnt going to live forever, you know, but on the other hand I dont know how a speedy PG could play in the Laker sytem. And the addition of Hibbert? Please, I'd take him anyday over Bynum - not because he's better, but at least he would play and make a really nice presence in the low post.
Leave Bynum party with Greg Oden and let people talk how AWSOME they are...virtually/on paper.
If I were the Lakers, I would think about it.

Moooose · Post #14 » by **Moooose** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:26 pm

Sure Bynum is an injury risk and has been overrated compared to what he's shown, but he blows Hibbert out of the water, who has become incredibly overrated by anyone calling him anything better then average.

This happens only a good 1/4 of the season when Bynum is not in the bench nursing a knee injury.
With that, i'd stick with Hibbert.

People tend to forget that Hibbert is still in his rookie contract, still learning the trade, and still have a ton of room for improvement. Bynum maybe better right now, but give Roy a couple of years and we'll see.

For the amount of games he play, Bynum's contract is ridiculous. His efficiency is only good with the tiny amount of games he play. If not for Odom, who picks up Bynum's role, the Lakers would've been long gone from title contention.

Indiana's just gone purging the bad contracts off their books so i don't see them being interested in Bynum. Bynum is more suited in the NFL where he can whack all the guys he wanted.

SoCal Al · Post #15 » by **SoCal Al** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:58 pm

Personally, I think the value is going the wrong way for both teams. Hibbert has been much more reliable to the Pacers health-wise, and the Lakers lose athleticism by downgrading to Hibbert. Collison's inclusion would be a no starter from the Indy's side, in my opinion, despite the Hill pick up. Bynum is better than Hibbert but Collison is much better than the margin between the 2.

Post #16 » by **moocow007** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:54 pm

My take on Bynum? He's arguably can be the second most dominant C in all of the NBA...if he can remain healthy. As it is and so far...he can't. It's a big concern. His value fluctuates probably greater than just about any player of any real talent/merit in the NBA depending on who you talk to, what day of the week and which side of the bed the person giving the opinion got out of in the morning. Has he been maligned beyond merit? Yeah. Is his general value higher than what the majority on this board has stated? I think so. But that's what happens when you have an ultra talented 7 footer that has shown that he can be the second best thing to Dwight Howard but who also has shown that he has a problem staying healthy (which speaks to both his physical makeup as well as his maturity/fortitude to do what it takes to make sure he's healthy). When you consider that the Lakers could very well land Dwight Howard in a package centered around Bynum says loads about what Bynum's value can be.

LApwnd · Post #17 » by **LApwnd** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:12 pm

moocow007 wrote:My take on Bynum? He's arguably can be the second most dominant C in all of the NBA...if he can remain healthy. As it is and so far...he can't. It's a big concern. His value fluctuates probably greater than just about any player of any real talent/merit in the NBA depending on who you talk to, what day of the week and which side of the bed the person giving the opinion got out of in the morning. Has he been maligned beyond merit? Yeah. Is his general value higher than what the majority on this board has stated? I think so. But that's what happens when you have an ultra talented 7 footer that has shown that he can be the second best thing to Dwight Howard but who also has shown that he has a problem staying healthy (which speaks to both his physical makeup as well as his maturity/fortitude to do what it takes to make sure he's healthy). When you consider that the Lakers could very well land Dwight Howard in a package centered around Bynum says loads about what Bynum's value can be.

his value fluctuates amongst us the FANS, not the owners cause as noted Jim Buss isn't trading him for anything, maybe not even Howard :lol:

Darth Tyrannus · Post #18 » by **Darth Tyrannus** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:18 pm

You wouldnt trade Bynum for Howard, wow thats all I got to say. If I was the Lakers I would take this deal because Bynum will never be able to stay healthy.

LApwnd · Post #19 » by **LApwnd** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:41 pm

Darth Tyrannus wrote:You wouldnt trade Bynum for Howard, wow thats all I got to say. If I was the Lakers I would take this deal because Bynum will never be able to stay healthy.

who is the "you" that you're referring to? If its me you should read my response more carefully, cause there's JIM BUSS name in there and I dont own the team, he does and thats what he SAID.

Post #20 » by **moocow007** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:02 pm

LApwnd wrote:
moocow007 wrote:My take on Bynum? He's arguably can be the second most dominant C in all of the NBA...if he can remain healthy. As it is and so far...he can't. It's a big concern. His value fluctuates probably greater than just about any player of any real talent/merit in the NBA depending on who you talk to, what day of the week and which side of the bed the person giving the opinion got out of in the morning. Has he been maligned beyond merit? Yeah. Is his general value higher than what the majority on this board has stated? I think so. But that's what happens when you have an ultra talented 7 footer that has shown that he can be the second best thing to Dwight Howard but who also has shown that he has a problem staying healthy (which speaks to both his physical makeup as well as his maturity/fortitude to do what it takes to make sure he's healthy). When you consider that the Lakers could very well land Dwight Howard in a package centered around Bynum says loads about what Bynum's value can be.

his value fluctuates amongst us the FANS, not the owners cause as noted Jim Buss isn't trading him for anything, maybe not even Howard

Yes I would tend to agree that his value is likely higher as far as other teams are concerned than he's perceived here on this board overall. As far as Jim Buss not trading him for even Howard? He'd be insane not to...and Buss doesn't strike me as a nutjob.