Shumpert lighting up the Vegas League

Post #221 » by **GONYK** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:25 am

najeem37 wrote:Some highlight dunks from iman. Sorry if posted already.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGBInMzQ8cQ[/youtube]

LOL @ David Lee in that mix. Jeremy Lin had more highlights than him.

Post #222 » by **Capn'O** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:30 am

NoMoreThrees wrote:i cant believe you guys now patting yourselves on the backs over shumperts a guy no one knew exist before he drafted. and all this self congrads before he even play a damn nba game. what is wrong with you guys. actin like we found a superstar lol. let him play a game first maybe. try that.

It really seems like more of your posts are spent bitching about how other people post than actually providing content of your own.

Where do you think he projects based on what you have seen? In our lineup? Compared with other current or past players?

Post #223 » by **Capn'O** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:38 am

To build on my previous post:

A REAL shooting guard may actually have as much or more value than a REAL point guard just because of how rare both are in today's league. Thus, Iman should be developed based on what his best skills are and not because one position is valued more than the next. I haven't seen him be a particularly innovative offense runner but I have seen him be an effective spot up shooter and a guy that can break down defenses and kick. I imagine he could run around and tire out an opponent a la Rip Hamilton or Reggie as well based on his tireless motor. I'm thinking SG for him based on admittedly small amounts of knowledge. I'm tired of the league turning Westbrook types into PGs. Particularly watching how old as dust Kidd manhandled Westbrook in the WCFs you see the value of a guy that actually runs an offense well doing so. The combo guard will always be overmatched there.

Post #224 » by **GONYK** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:46 am

Capn'O wrote:To build on my previous post:

A REAL shooting guard may actually have as much or more value than a REAL point guard just because of how rare both are in today's league. Thus, Iman should be developed based on what his best skills are and not because one position is valued more than the next. I haven't seen him be a particularly innovative offense runner but I have seen him be an effective spot up shooter and a guy that can break down defenses and kick. I imagine he could run around and tire out an opponent a la Rip Hamilton or Reggie as well based on his tireless motor. I'm thinking SG for him based on admittedly small amounts of knowledge. I'm tired of the league turning Westbrook types into PGs. Particularly watching how old as dust Kidd manhandled Westbrook in the WCFs you see the value of a guy that actually runs an offense well doing so. The combo guard will always be overmatched there.

Wonderful post. Great point.

stuporman · Post #225 » by **stuporman** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:19 am

As much as I understand how important it is to have players that possess the skills associated with the respective positions they play I think some people put too much emphasis on it. When you talk about teams that succeed in the playoffs it's the ones that have players who in addition to having some of the more conventional skill sets of their positions but also are more versatile and therefore makes the team as a whole more difficult to defend and prepare for.

knicksosmoove · Post #226 » by **knicksosmoove** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:21 am

He might be more of a mismatch as a point guard because of his size, but I imagine with our personnel he'll play as shooting guard.

Falstaffxx · Post #227 » by **Falstaffxx** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:34 am

knicksosmoove wrote:He might be more of a mismatch as a point guard because of his size, but I imagine with our personnel he'll play as shooting guard.

That's our biggest need this season (other than center), so I agree. We still have Billups this year. At shooting guard we just have Douglas (midget), Fields (small forward), and Walker (dumb). If Shumpert is ready for big minutes at the 2 this year, it'll be nice.

NYman15 · Post #228 » by **NYman15** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:15 pm

We still have to see this kid play on an NBA court and in practice before we start predicting where he will be playing or whether or not he'll be starting. We're still going off of his college career, when it does seem like he has worked on his game a lot this summer and it seems his jump shot has improved. I have to wait and see this kid on an NBA court before making any presumptions.

Lord Commander · Post #229 » by **Lord Commander** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:22 pm

NYman15 wrote:We still have to see this kid play on an NBA court and in practice before we start predicting where he will be playing or whether or not he'll be starting. We're still going off of his college career, when it does seem like he has worked on his game a lot this summer and it seems his jump shot has improved. I have to wait and see this kid on an NBA court before making any presumptions.

Yeah, I like that he's dominating in summer leage action but I don't get the crazy optimism either.

Falstaffxx · Post #230 » by **Falstaffxx** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:02 pm

Hahn has an article up about the fact that Billups will be joining Shumpert for some Impact League games this week:

http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo;JSESSIONID=55967F923E4A647BCE8B.3138?site=newsday&view=sports_blogs_item&feed:a=newsday_5min&feed:c=sports_blogs&feed:i=1.3182327&nopaging=1

Post #231 » by **Capn'O** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:03 pm

stuporman wrote:As much as I understand how important it is to have players that possess the skills associated with the respective positions they play I think some people put too much emphasis on it. When you talk about teams that succeed in the playoffs it's the ones that have players who in addition to having some of the more conventional skill sets of their positions but also are more versatile and therefore makes the team as a whole more difficult to defend and prepare for.

While I agree in principle with what you are saying, "ability to run an offense at a high level" is a suite of several skills that you need from your PG or a PG equivalent - some of which cannot be taught. Miami is able to do their thing without a true PG because their SF (and SG but not as much) possesses those skills. Though he has the raw physical ability to be a good point guard I have not seen/heard evidence that Shumpert's court vision, decision making, or passing creativity are particularly exceptional whereas skills that would make him a good 2 are there.

ManiaX · Post #232 » by **ManiaX** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:03 pm

Not sure if anyone already posted this but Shumpert's Day 4 numbers were 6 points(3-7fgs), 5 rebounds, and 2 steals.

While Shumpert has been a pleasant surprise, I don't understand why people just assume he is going to take Field's spot in the starting lineup. Without including his Day 4 performance, Shumpert's numbers may look impressive but you have to also see that John Wall is averaging 40+ppg in the league. Numbers are clearly inflated when you have only 6-7 guys on a team.

ManiaX · Post #233 » by **ManiaX** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:12 pm

Looks like today Shumpert will be playing with:

Billups
Mason Jr.
Kenyon Martin
Jamaal Tinsley
Stephan Jackson
Damon Jones
Jeremy Evans

Tinsley has been playing with Shumpert since the league started. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a look from the Knicks once the lockout ends.

I would have liked to see Jorts playing. He probably could have used this league the most considering his past conditioning issues.

Pharmcat · Post #234 » by **Pharmcat** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:16 pm

ManiaX wrote:Not sure if anyone already posted this but Shumpert's Day 4 numbers were 6 points(3-7fgs), 5 rebounds, and 2 steals.

While Shumpert has been a pleasant surprise, I don't understand why people just assume he is going to take Field's spot in the starting lineup. Without including his Day 4 performance, Shumpert's numbers may look impressive but you have to also see that John Wall is averaging 40+ppg in the league. Numbers are clearly inflated when you have only 6-7 guys on a team.

fields cant start at sg, he doesnt have the lateral quickness to keep up with those people

hes a nice player off the bench though backing up the starters

Post #235 » by **GONYK** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:24 pm

ManiaX wrote:Not sure if anyone already posted this but Shumpert's Day 4 numbers were 6 points(3-7fgs), 5 rebounds, and 2 steals.

While Shumpert has been a pleasant surprise, I don't understand why people just assume he is going to take Field's spot in the starting lineup. Without including his Day 4 performance, Shumpert's numbers may look impressive but you have to also see that John Wall is averaging 40+ppg in the league. Numbers are clearly inflated when you have only 6-7 guys on a team.

Fields is not a 2, no matter how you slice it. Shump fits the physical profile and necessary more, which is why a lot of people are slating him for the position.

Fields is a 3.

Pharmcat · Post #236 » by **Pharmcat** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:29 pm

GONYK wrote:
ManiaX wrote:Not sure if anyone already posted this but Shumpert's Day 4 numbers were 6 points(3-7fgs), 5 rebounds, and 2 steals.

While Shumpert has been a pleasant surprise, I don't understand why people just assume he is going to take Field's spot in the starting lineup. Without including his Day 4 performance, Shumpert's numbers may look impressive but you have to also see that John Wall is averaging 40+ppg in the league. Numbers are clearly inflated when you have only 6-7 guys on a team.

Fields is not a 2, no matter how you slice it. Shump fits the physical profile and necessary more, which is why a lot of people are slating him for the position.

Fields is a 3.

i suppose mike could start melo at 4 and fields at 3 :roll:

ManiaX · Post #237 » by **ManiaX** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:42 pm

GONYK wrote:
ManiaX wrote:Not sure if anyone already posted this but Shumpert's Day 4 numbers were 6 points(3-7fgs), 5 rebounds, and 2 steals.

While Shumpert has been a pleasant surprise, I don't understand why people just assume he is going to take Field's spot in the starting lineup. Without including his Day 4 performance, Shumpert's numbers may look impressive but you have to also see that John Wall is averaging 40+ppg in the league. Numbers are clearly inflated when you have only 6-7 guys on a team.

Fields is not a 2, no matter how you slice it. Shump fits the physical profile and necessary more, which is why a lot of people are slating him for the position.

Fields is a 3.

Fields played a whole season at the 2 spot and played well. You can't say he is just a SF, because Fields really isn't strong enough and at 6-7 is undersized depending on the match up.

ManiaX · Post #238 » by **ManiaX** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:47 pm

Pharmcat wrote:
ManiaX wrote:Not sure if anyone already posted this but Shumpert's Day 4 numbers were 6 points(3-7fgs), 5 rebounds, and 2 steals.

While Shumpert has been a pleasant surprise, I don't understand why people just assume he is going to take Field's spot in the starting lineup. Without including his Day 4 performance, Shumpert's numbers may look impressive but you have to also see that John Wall is averaging 40+ppg in the league. Numbers are clearly inflated when you have only 6-7 guys on a team.

fields cant start at sg, he doesnt have the lateral quickness to keep up with those people

hes a nice player off the bench though backing up the starters

While I do agree with everything you just said, I am not ready to annoint Iman Shumpert as our savior at SG position based on this vegas league. From all the reports it seems like Shumpert still envisions himself as a PG as well.

All I am trying to say is that if Fields was playing in the vegas league, I have no reason to believe that he wouldn't be averaging 20+ppg and a ton of boards like everyone else.

Post #239 » by **Capn'O** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:58 pm

ManiaX wrote:Fields played a whole season at the 2 spot and played well. You can't say he is just a SF, because Fields really isn't strong enough and at 6-7 is undersized depending on the match up.

Fields CAN play the two but it's not his ideal role on a legit contender IMO and PARTICULARLY not next to Melo who does a lot of what Fields did much better. It's certainly too early to say that Shumpert is that for sure but I do predict that he will eventually take over Fields' spot if there is a season. Not because of his Vegas performance per se but rather because of specific skills that he has shown both in college and since. His numbers in Vegas mean very little as almost no defense is being played. The numbers don't translate. Skills, however, (open shooting, ability to break down defenses, good motor, good quickness and leaping ability) are skills.

In any event, barring a major injury to Billups (or unforeseen megaPGstardom of Shumpert :lol:

), the starting PG spot is not up for grabs this year. SG could easily be.

KnicksScholar24 · Post #240 » by **KnicksScholar24** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:11 pm

Capn'O wrote:To build on my previous post:

I haven't seen him be a particularly innovative offense runner but I have seen him be an effective spot up shooter and a guy that can break down defenses and kick.

Where have you seen him be an effective spot up shooter and a guy that can break down defensives and kick? And where have you seen him not be a particularly innovative "offense runner?" Is this based on the (most likely) rare times you've seen him play at Georgia Tech, or the highlight reel snippets at the Impact League?