11

[Foye]

No. Pjanic wasn't a difference maker for Lyon. It's true he scored a rather important goal against Real Madrid but difference makers do that on a regular basis. I like him, though.

Milan may not have had the true world class players last year...however, they had a world class striker rotation. Pato, Ibrahimovic, Cassano (well only in 2011), Robinho. That's about as good as it gets. Don't think any team in Europe can say they clearly have truely superior strikers. Not even ManCity and they've been buying strikers for years now.
And then they had classy center backs (Thiago is money and Nesta still very good). Their overall defense was very good, too. While the exact players don't scream world class at you their defense might still have played on a very high level.

However, in the CL Milan was screwed due to their lack of creativity in the midfield. Another high quality player that plays deadly passes and they're a serious threat, IMO.

Roma has definitely made some good transfers to improve the overall talent level of the team - which wasn't that high last season, IMO.
I just feel like they missed out on acquiring a player or two player with world class potential. Buying a player like Falcao would've been a great sign towards trying to build a powerful team, IMO.
Pjanic, Kjaer, Bojan (I feel like he's overrated like that dos Santos guy a few years ago), Gago, Lamela, Jose Angel these players will all be very good players for Roma, no doubt. They'll probably play well in the Champions League with Rome one day but lack the class to really make it further than the quarter finals when they face say Manchester United, Barca or Real.
Part of the problem might be that Italy currently doesn't have that many great prospects.
I just feel like if I'm investing millions I try to invest them in 2 or 3 high class prospects every year rather than getting only upper class prospects.
For example if I have 20 mil and need a central midfielder like Pjanic and Lamela.
I buy just one (the one that I think will be a better player) and save the rest of the money to upgrade another position. Combine those 10+ mil. you save by buying just one with the Bojan mil. and you're almost able to buy Falcao from Porto back then - who is more proven than Bojan and a far better central striker than Borriello.

[Doormatt]

Roma werent in a position to invest in 2 or 3 world class prospects, as the overall level of their squad didnt call for that, it called for a complete overhaul of talent. they needed upgrades at every position really, and needed to spread out the money available on multiple positions. i think Sabatini did an excellent job in that regard, and remember, he really didnt have the whole summer to work with, as the takeover by DiBenedetto took longer than expected. and to be fair, i think Lamela was a "world class" type investment. in terms of South American talent, he is really the cream of the crop, along with Neymar. you can just see the list of teams interested in him to know how highly he is thought of.

idk, if you dont think Pjanic for 11 million was an absolute steal, i dont know what to tell you, i would much rather spend that money on him, than spend an extra 10-20 million on a superior player, and be without the money for Kjaer or Angel. and yes, he HAS been a difference maker for Lyon in europe, in fact, ive seen nothing to prove otherwise. he was absolutely magnificent against Fiorentina, actually scored the winner against them in the group stage, and i thought he was very good in the other games i managed to see of them (not much to be fair). he actually scored 6 goals in 25 games for them in the CL, pretty good for someone known as a creative midfielder. his free kicks are absolutely amazing. the only reason he was edged out was because the French want to believe Gourcuff is the next Zidane, and Pjanic suffered as a result. IIRC they actually tried to play those 2 together they thought so highly of him.


and Roma didnt buy Bojan, its really just a 2 year loan deal. Barcelona MUST buy him back 2 years from now (for 13 million, we pay 12 million the year before), and if Roma want, they can stop the transfer by paying something like 28 million. obviously if Bojan turns out to be the world class player people thought he was, Roma will try to acquire him, and bargain down that 28 million "clause." but actually, i agree with you, he is overrated, and i dont think he'll succeed (unfortunately), and i REALLY doubt Roma will retain 2 years from now.

the only poor purchase i thought we made was Osvaldo, as he was the most expensive transfer i believe, and doesnt really look to be worth that price. but Enrique or Sabatini must have seen something in him to merit that, so ill give it time.

and Milan didnt win the scudetto because of a world class striking rotation, the only truly class player is Ibra, and to a lesser extent Pato. to address your other point, i would EASILY take Barca and ManU's forward rotation over that. they won because they allowed the fewest goals (24, second place inter allowed 42!), and yes, they did score a fair amount of goals (tied for 2nd with udinese, behind inter). imo, they won because they played like a true squad, and really, Serie A wasnt very good last year.

[Doormatt]

i hope my posts arent too long winded, i have no where else to talk about football.

[Doormatt]

Oh, one more thing just to be clear, I don't think Roma will win the scudetto, in fact , I think we'll be lucky to finish in the top 3. My general point is we are building toward something better, and we seem to be building a much more solid future than almost any other team in Italy. But this will take time, and patience, because this style of football takes time to implement, and the type of players we are buying are investments for the future.

[Foye]

Ok, I was wrong about Bojan then. I thought you bought him for 12 mil instead of it being a loan. I thought Barca only had the rights to buy him back for 13 mil.

Angel hasn't exactly cost you a lot. 4.5 mil € that's like a transfer that doesn't depend on larger transfers - especially with a new wealthy investor coming in.

Pjanic I've seen like 5 times. Twice against Schalke, twice against Bayern Munich and once against Madrid. Obviously not a large sample size. Against Madrid he stepped up and made an important goal. Against Munich he was pretty underwhelming in the 1st game and got subbed out shortly after half time. Next game he didn't even get the start and was subbed in when the score was already 2-0 for Munich. Against Schalke he was solid in the 1st game but in the 2nd game he was bad like the rest of the team. I saw him step up once but in the other games I didn't feel like he's the man that is turning a sinking ship around.
Maybe we just agree that nobody of us really knows if he's a difference maker.
And if I as a club manager really think Lamela will be a world class player - then I'm not buying a 2nd central midfielder. Doesn't matter if he's cheap or not. I use the money elsewhere then.
Also, I'm not a fan of rotating players positions. Most players play better at their natural position. There are only a few all-rounders that play on different positions really well. And many players are pissed when they don't play at their prefered position (especially if they're a little more established).

Regarding Milan:
If you count Messi as a striker - then obviously Barcelona's strikers are superior. IMO he's still more like an offensive midfielder although he scores a lot of goals. He does so much for organizing the game that he's not a traditional striker. Ronaldo is more of a traditional striker because you find him in the box way more often than Messi.

I'm not saying Milan definitely has the best striking rotation in the world just that it's up there with the best. The problem is that they don't have enough support from the midfield. Not enough midfield players who can make the quality pass that beats the defense. Give them a midfield duo of Iniesta and Xavi and they probably would've scored 25 goals more last season.

[Doormatt]

I don't really understand your criticism of Romas midfield, Pjanic and Lamela do not play the same position. At all. Lamela is a bit like Messi, in that he drifts behind the strikers and plays a sort of #10 role, but he can also play further wide. Pjanic plays deeper, and while he does have the ability to play higher, is more of that creative midfielder that can link the attack. Lamela will definetly play higher up than Pjanic, this will not be a problem. The only central midfielders we bought were Pjanic and Gago (loan deal actually), and Gago plays a much more possession/passing oreiented game, and if anything, will do fine along side Pjanic. I actually think our best lineup is

Gago -- DDR -- Pjanic
------- Lamela --------
--- Borini -- Osvaldo ---

Hopefully we'll able to move on Borriello and get a more reliable striker. As you can see all the players we bought will fit in seamlessly

And this style of football doesn't call for specific positions, just look at Barca. Everyone is interchangeable, and the movement on the pitch reflects that. If anything, Totti is the one holding things back (pure speculation on my behalf btw), by not taking a lesser role, and giving minutes to the younger players.

[Foye]

You already said it yourself that Lyon tried playing both Gourcuff and Pjanic. Gourcuff is also a very offensive-minded midfielder. It didn't seem to have worked out. Otherwise they probably wouldn't have sold him.
Putting players on an unnatural position usually ends in losing a little efficiency. Tendency tells me Pjanic won't be as effective as a left or defensive as as an offensive midfielder.
Toni Kroos is currently having kind of a rebirth (after sucking last season) for Bayern Munich now that he finally gets all his minutes as a 10 instead of having to play as a defensive or left midfielder.

It's not a knock on Pjanic. I think he's a good player and 11mil. is a great price for him. I just wonder if he can reach his full potential if his best position is blocked by someone else.
And interchangeable positions or not, for the most part of the game you still play on the position your coach gave you.

If you put Gago in as a right midfielder you've gotta ask yourself whether he can really consistantly beat defenders off the dribble.
If he can't the right side will either be dead in some games or Lamela/Borriello/Osvaldo will have to run more to compensate that to make the right side a threat.

[Doormatt]

Uh, the midfielders aren't really meant to take people 1on1 in this system, that is the job of the fullbacks, and the wide forwards. The midfield for this team is meant to keep and win back possession. Our 4-3-3 isn't a traditional one, it's almost like the Barcelona 4-3-3. Gago will play a similar role to Busquets, not one that requires a ton of pace. De Rossi will play similarly, but likely higher up. Gagos lack of pace and 1on1 ability will be mitigated once we get a competent rigth back.

I still don't know how to make this any clearer, Pjanic and Gourcuff played nearly the exact same positions, Lamela and Pjanic DO NOT. Lamela plays closer to goal, and is almost a second striker at times, while Pjanic is that linking/creative midfielder, and he tends to drop deeper. They won't get in each others way, and can easily play next to each other and maximize their abilities. This is what it will look like



^ the formation itself is a bit off, our 4-3-3 is less traditional as I've said, and that's a 4-2-3-1, but the players are in the right position nevertheless.

[Foye]

Well, now that I see it it makes a little more sense. I assumed you meant more like 2 real strikers up front with Lamela being slightly behind them. Then it's obviously not Gago and Pjanic who've gotta play as wingers.

I've done some research on Lamela. His stats sure don't look that impressing to me. 19 games Torneo Clausura 2 goals, 3 assists. 13 games Torneo Apertura, 2 goals, 3 assists. That's 4 goals and 6 assists for a guy you describe as almost a striker.
Don't get your hopes up too high for Lamela already. He may turn out as a stud - but the bust risk is very high, too.
Those youtube clips I've seen now remind me of Jose Ernesto Sosa a lot. I sure hope he'll turn out better than Sosa.
Sosa was really hyped back in 2007. Technically, he was always one of Bayern Munich's 3 best players with Ribery and Ze Roberto the following years. However he lacked so much in every other aspect of the game that he really only shined against preseason lower league opponents. He never adapted to the speed of game in Europe, having to work on defense as well and the more physical play. Be content if he turns out worth that 15 mil. investment you made and don't expect him to bring the stars closer. It's always hard for South American players to make it on a big club in a big league.

[5DOM]

So Gasperini's probably getting sacked in next few hours

[Doormatt]

Good for inter. I'm normally against the Italian idea of "get results or your fired" as I think managers need consistency and time to implement their ideas, but Gasp is clueless and will lead inter no where. That Muntari sub was the nail in the coffin.

[Doormatt]

And Novara is most definetly a relegation side.

[and1GS]

Good for inter. I'm normally against the Italian idea of "get results or your fired" as I think managers need consistency and time to implement their ideas, but Gasp is clueless and will lead inter no where. That Muntari sub was the nail in the coffin.

Word.

[Doormatt]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/20 ... and-inters

I wonder who will replace him, there's no one available who inspires confidence. Probabaly Carlo is their best choice, which is kinda sad IMO.

[J-Mezzy]

Well, now that I see it it makes a little more sense. I assumed you meant more like 2 real strikers up front with Lamela being slightly behind them. Then it's obviously not Gago and Pjanic who've gotta play as wingers.

I've done some research on Lamela. His stats sure don't look that impressing to me. 19 games Torneo Clausura 2 goals, 3 assists. 13 games Torneo Apertura, 2 goals, 3 assists. That's 4 goals and 6 assists for a guy you describe as almost a striker.
Don't get your hopes up too high for Lamela already. He may turn out as a stud - but the bust risk is very high, too.
Those youtube clips I've seen now remind me of Jose Ernesto Sosa a lot. I sure hope he'll turn out better than Sosa.
Sosa was really hyped back in 2007. Technically, he was always one of Bayern Munich's 3 best players with Ribery and Ze Roberto the following years. However he lacked so much in every other aspect of the game that he really only shined against preseason lower league opponents. He never adapted to the speed of game in Europe, having to work on defense as well and the more physical play. Be content if he turns out worth that 15 mil. investment you made and don't expect him to bring the stars closer. It's always hard for South American players to make it on a big club in a big league.

Not sure if you are serious. There are as many S American stars in Europe as there are S American busts.

[Slava]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2011/09/20/2675187/gian-piero-gasperini-does-not-have-the-team-in-hand-inters

I wonder who will replace him, there's no one available who inspires confidence. Probabaly Carlo is their best choice, which is kinda sad IMO.

Not sure Ancelotti would take that job considering his history with Milan. I don't know if they'd consider it but I'd love for Mark Hughes to get this job and he deserves it completely.

[Doormatt]

Not sure if you are serious. There are as many S American stars in Europe as there are S American busts.

yeah, i was just kind of ignoring that. just look at somebody like Pastore, i think Lamela is already much better than he was when he came over to italy. Sabatini is an amazing scout/evaluator of talent imo, just look at his track record.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Sab ... alorizzati

* Armin Bačinovič
* Fabio Bazzani
* Valon Behrami
* Nicolás Bertolo
* Marcello Castellini
* Luis Pedro Cavanda
* Lorenzo De Silvestri
* Marco Di Vaio
* Modibo Diakité
* Pasquale Foggia
* Gennaro Gattuso
* Federico Giunti
* Abel Hernández
* Josip Iličič[13]
* Pajtim Kasami
* Aleksandar Kolarov
* Libor Kozák
* Stephan Lichtsteiner
* Federico Macheda
* Michel Morganella
* Fernando Muslera
* Alessandro Nesta
* Goran Pandev
* Javier Pastore
* Ştefan Radu
* Tommaso Rocchi
* Riccardo Zampagna

and that was for lazio and palermo, two clubs with much less money available than we do now, and frankly, less prestige. Roma are a bigger club, with more money, better management/ownership (Pjanic said Enrique convinced him to come to Roma), and the quality of players is a HUGE step up from what Prade was drawing the past few years. and its not like we werent competitive during the Sensi era, which is why im so excited, because things are only going to get better.

[Doormatt]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2011/09/20/2675187/gian-piero-gasperini-does-not-have-the-team-in-hand-inters

I wonder who will replace him, there's no one available who inspires confidence. Probabaly Carlo is their best choice, which is kinda sad IMO.

Not sure Ancelotti would take that job considering his history with Milan. I don't know if they'd consider it but I'd love for Mark Hughes to get this job and he deserves it completely.

there is just no way Moratti will consider a brit. tbh, i cant even think of the last brit to manage in Serie A. i think the only foreigners at the moment are Enrique and Mihajlovic (who is barely a manger to begin with).

[Slava]

Well.. he did hire a fat Spanish waiter

[fudgie]

Caught a bit of Inter-Roma last weekend. Borini looked pretty, pretty good.