2011-12 Toronto Raptors Trade Ideas Thread Pt II

[Death Knight]

Our coach and franchise player has spoken!
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/G ... gnatures/1

[TJ Quik]

A deal I'd like to see us make is somehow flip Ed Davis for a lotto pick in the 8-12 range

And then I'd have to shoot you. If BC traded either of Demar or ED wouldn't this board be going completely postal? On Bleacher Report they had a deal lined up (yes it is fantasy) which was Biedrins/Ekpe Udoh for Bargs. That deal I'd do in a flash but when someone like Davis fell to us in a strong draft I don't see us pssing our good fortune away. It would be too much of a kneejerk move and make BC look like he was doing another Antoine Wright summer retrofit or worse justifying Barg's value by ditching arguably our brightest prospect. BC drafts well and trades poorly and free agents don't get me started. So... if he hits a home run or at least a stand-up double in the draft why would we trust him to convert that after one season in a trade. Beyond scary.

The bottom line for me is that our forntcourt is now packed, and with Val being brought in Davis is redundant. Val is basically a bugger, longer, younger Ed Davis with a work ethic. We have Amir as well, and next to those 2, Bargs is the better complement in that 3 man rotation.

Kabongo for Davis IMO would actually be pretty good value. Obviously a full year in the NCAA will give us a much better understanding of how how good Kabongo is, but right now he projects as a pure distributing PG similar to Rajon Rondo. He's got higher upside, and the fact he's a toronto kid, it could be huge for the fanbase. Just look at the Jays and Brett Lawrie...

While I like Davis, I'm not sure what his upside is, since with him he basically is a center in a power forwards body, and those guys aren't all that uncommon, and generally are best suited off the bench on elite teams. We already have a guy like that. His name is Amir Johnson, and he is far more proven, not much older, and has a tremendous work ethic...

[drew_28]

I am ok with flipping Davis for Kabongo...although I think we could get more. Unless Kabongo comes out and destroys the NCAA this year or if Davis regresses...a straight Davis for Kabongo seems like a loss for us. I think something like a mid first (12-14) and a high second for Davis would be better value. Using the first pick for Kabongo and the second for someone like John Henson.

If we could come out of the draft with a lineup

Kabongo/Bayless
Derozan/Weems
Barnes/JJ
Bargs/Amir/Henson
Val/Bargs/Alabi

i'd be stoked.

[Rapsfan07]

If it's not for Drummond, Miller, Gilchrist or Barnes then I wouldn't be moving Ed Davis. Not even for Kabongo.

Kabongo, like someone said before, looks like a pass-first pass-second point guard. We already have on of those and his name is Jose Calderon. He needs to establish his offensive game MUCH more before I even contemplate letting go of Davis for him. If Bayless doesn't work out and we pursue a PG, then I'd like Wroten or Teague. One or both of them won't be in the lottery.

Also, I'd like to see Bargs moved at either the trade deadline or on draft day. I don't want him on this team come the 12/13 season. Either to the Hawks, Bucks, Bulls or something but not here so that should clear up our big rotation. Hopefully we score Drummond so our bigs will be Val, Drummond, Amir and Alabi. Ideally we start a frontcourt of Val and Drummond so Amir and Alabi will be our bench bigs. Also if we can sign a bench SG that can play D and shoot 3's (Peterson, Afflalo), that should round us out pretty well. We also have Barbosa that can be traded for something (Ronnie Brewer?).
Let's say we traded Bargnani to the Bucks and Barbosa to the Bulls.

Jose/Bayless/3rd PG(Wroten or Teague - Bargnani trade)
DeRozan/Brewer(Barbosa trade)/3rd SG (Peterson, Afflalo etc)
*Miller or Barnes (Raps pick) or Gilchrist (Davis trade)/Johnson/Kleiza
*Drummond/Amir/Gooden(Bargnani trade)
Val/Drummond/Alabi

*Obviously we won't get both Miller/Barnes AND Drummond but I think its possible that we could end up with Gilchrist and Drummond (which I believe would be the best wing-big combo within the realm of possibility for us. And Gooden is asumming we are forced to take on Gooden in which case we save money and acquire a either late lotto or mid draft pick.*

That's a team I'd get excited about.

[TJ Quik]

Kabongo, like someone said before, looks like a pass-first pass-second point guard. We already have on of those and his name is Jose Calderon.

The thing is though, if we have a starting line of Derozan/Barnes/Bargs/Val, then we need a PG who will be pass first with that group. And don't compare Kabongo to Calderon. Kabongo creates easy buckets for others. Calderon creates jumpshots for others. And he can't defend a lick, and is essentially dead to me and has no future on this roster...

Also if we miss out on Barnes and need to find our SF with a later pick, I have a major crush on Adonis Thomas. Dude is as athletic and as good defender as anyone in this draft, and he's wet from three. He'd litterally be the best fit at SF beside Demar as possible. Imagine a more athletic Kawhi Leonard who could wet threes. This guy will lock down wings...

[Rapsfan07]

Kabongo, like someone said before, looks like a pass-first pass-second point guard. We already have on of those and his name is Jose Calderon.

The thing is though, if we have a starting line of Derozan/Barnes/Bargs/Val, then we need a PG who will be pass first with that group. And don't compare Kabongo to Calderon. Kabongo creates easy buckets for others. Calderon creates jumpshots for others. And he can't defend a lick, and is essentially dead to me and has no future on this roster...

Also if we miss out on Barnes and need to find our SF with a later pick, I have a major crush on Adonis Thomas. Dude is as athletic and as good defender as anyone in this draft, and he's wet from three. He'd litterally be the best fit at SF beside Demar as possible. Imagine a more athletic Kawhi Leonard who could wet threes. This guy will lock down wings...

Understood. I still am not sold on Kabongo just yet though. I like Wroten and Teague's game more as of now. As for Adonis Thomas...I like him a lot too but I think the greater potential lies with Gilchrist.

[TJ Quik]

Kabongo, like someone said before, looks like a pass-first pass-second point guard. We already have on of those and his name is Jose Calderon.

The thing is though, if we have a starting line of Derozan/Barnes/Bargs/Val, then we need a PG who will be pass first with that group. And don't compare Kabongo to Calderon. Kabongo creates easy buckets for others. Calderon creates jumpshots for others. And he can't defend a lick, and is essentially dead to me and has no future on this roster...

Also if we miss out on Barnes and need to find our SF with a later pick, I have a major crush on Adonis Thomas. Dude is as athletic and as good defender as anyone in this draft, and he's wet from three. He'd litterally be the best fit at SF beside Demar as possible. Imagine a more athletic Kawhi Leonard who could wet threes. This guy will lock down wings...

Understood. I still am not sold on Kabongo just yet though. I like Wroten and Teague's game more as of now. As for Adonis Thomas...I like him a lot too but I think the greater potential lies with Gilchrist.

No doubt, but if we were able to get Drummund with out first pick, and then flip a frontocurt asset for a later first rounder to address ouf SF need, Thomas would be the man IMO. I like everything about him. You listen to him talk, he's obviously bright and has a trmendous work ethic and respect and understanding of the game. And his physical tools are unreal....

[NH]

Do you think Portland will do a Ed Davis for Nic Batum swap? Portland really needs a big man (they only have Lamarcus really). Nic will look nice with DD.

[tecumseh18]

Do you think Portland will do a Ed Davis for Nic Batum swap? Portland really needs a big man (they only have Lamarcus really). Nic will look nice with DD.

Sorry, you're looking for the intriguing, potentially achievable trade thread. This thread is just for dumb, one-sided, never-happen-in-a million-years trade ideas.

It really comes down to whether Ed is seen by outsiders as being as valuable as we see him. I don't think his current trade value reflects his true value. Meanwhile, until Val or the big defensive C Colangelo has promised gets here, Ed's not redundant. And Batum starting at SF would not help the tanking for Drummond effort.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Do you think Portland will do a Ed Davis for Nic Batum swap? Portland really needs a big man (they only have Lamarcus really). Nic will look nice with DD.

I wouldn't if I am Toronto, we trade a promising defensive big for a risk on Batum to potentially bolt or us overpay him in 1 year as a RFA. No thanks to that, I can't believe some people wanted to move #5 for him just to get rid of Jose Calderon. Toronto's SF problem is best used with our pick in 2012 there is no 100% guarantee that Drummond declares. If we move Ed Davis I would want to move him for a 2nd pick in 2012 for a shot at Gillchrist (doubtful) or for Myck Kobango. Both are going to be very good defenders at the next level and show that they could be very solid players in their own rights. Question is who wants Ed that badly that they are willing to move said pick for him?

[Rapsfan07]

Do you think Portland will do a Ed Davis for Nic Batum swap? Portland really needs a big man (they only have Lamarcus really). Nic will look nice with DD.

I wouldn't if I am Toronto, we trade a promising defensive big for a risk on Batum to potentially bolt or us overpay him in 1 year as a RFA. No thanks to that, I can't believe some people wanted to move #5 for him just to get rid of Jose Calderon. Toronto's SF problem is best used with our pick in 2012 there is no 100% guarantee that Drummond declares. If we move Ed Davis I would want to move him for a 2nd pick in 2012 for a shot at Gillchrist (doubtful) or for Myck Kobango. Both are going to be very good defenders at the next level and show that they could be very solid players in their own rights. Question is who wants Ed that badly that they are willing to move said pick for him?

I watched an interview where Drummond said that he'd be declaring "if the money's there". Why do you say there is no guarantee he declares?

I would also move Ed for Gilchrist if the opportunity arose. It's early but most mock drafts have him in the mid lottery area. Funny enough, it seems Q. Mill has also dropped a bit. But like I said, it's early.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Do you think Portland will do a Ed Davis for Nic Batum swap? Portland really needs a big man (they only have Lamarcus really). Nic will look nice with DD.

I wouldn't if I am Toronto, we trade a promising defensive big for a risk on Batum to potentially bolt or us overpay him in 1 year as a RFA. No thanks to that, I can't believe some people wanted to move #5 for him just to get rid of Jose Calderon. Toronto's SF problem is best used with our pick in 2012 there is no 100% guarantee that Drummond declares. If we move Ed Davis I would want to move him for a 2nd pick in 2012 for a shot at Gillchrist (doubtful) or for Myck Kobango. Both are going to be very good defenders at the next level and show that they could be very solid players in their own rights. Question is who wants Ed that badly that they are willing to move said pick for him?

I watched an interview where Drummond said that he'd be declaring "if the money's there". Why do you say there is no guarantee he declares?

I would also move Ed for Gilchrist if the opportunity arose. It's early but most mock drafts have him in the mid lottery area. Funny enough, it seems Q. Mill has also dropped a bit. But like I said, it's early.

Well I don't think he would want to go to Toronto if he can't be the man at the 4 or to another team that has a log jam at the 4/5 like we kinda do right now. We would have 4 capable starting-esque PF and only one real 5 in Jonas V so Ed or Amir would be easily on the way out and in my mind teams are going to low ball us cause they know we have a log jam to get rid of.

With that being said Drummond might want to stay in school for some unknown reason who knows look what happened to Sulinger he was touted as a for sure top 5 pick and his team sucked the big one in the Final Four Tournament and he sulked all the way back to Ohio State to some how prove that he wants to win. Same this with guys like Perry Ellis III and a few other guys last year who went back for 1 more year.

[Rapsfan07]

Well I don't think he would want to go to Toronto if he can't be the man at the 4 or to another team that has a log jam at the 4/5 like we kinda do right now. We would have 4 capable starting-esque PF and only one real 5 in Jonas V so Ed or Amir would be easily on the way out and in my mind teams are going to low ball us cause they know we have a log jam to get rid of.

With that being said Drummond might want to stay in school for some unknown reason who knows look what happened to Sulinger he was touted as a for sure top 5 pick and his team sucked the big one in the Final Four Tournament and he sulked all the way back to Ohio State to some how prove that he wants to win. Same this with guys like Perry Ellis III and a few other guys last year who went back for 1 more year.

I believe it was Perry Jones III to whom you were referring?

Anyway, it is true that we'd have a bit of log jam to clear and IMO, a long jam at the 4/5 spot is the best place to have logjam because bigs are a precious commodity in this NBA. At the point we'd have 4 PFs (Bargs, Amir, Ed & Drummond if we drafted him) and one true C in Val. My hope would be to move Bargnani for the best deal and if Ed can be used to secure a SF then I'd consider seriously consider it. I wouldn't want Ed AND Amir going. As a matter of fact, I'd rather see Amir go if push came to shove but I think Ed would reel in the better deal so I think it'd be him. I just hope that if any bigs get dealt, it'd be Bargs first.

Btw, I think Drummond is also capable of playing the 5 spot.

[Lawnmower Man]

There's only one trade I want to see. We trade Bargnani to Milwaukee for their first round pick.

In 2012 Draft, we pick:
- a SF (ie. Quincy Miller) with our likely top-5 pick
- We draft a PG (ie. Kendall Marshall) with our newly acquired mid-first round pick.

We start the 2012/13 season with a core of Valanciunas, Davis, Amir, Quincy, DeRozan, Marshall, & Bayless..and we see how things develop. We fill the gaps with our cap space.

[Rapsfan07]

There's only one trade I want to see. We trade Bargnani to Milwaukee for their first round pick.

In 2012 Draft, we pick:
- a SF (ie. Quincy Miller) with our likely top-5 pick
- We draft a PG (ie. Kendall Marshall) with our newly acquired mid-first round pick.

We start the 2012/13 season with a core of Valanciunas, Davis, Amir, Quincy, DeRozan, Marshall, & Bayless..and we see how things develop. We fill the gaps with our cap space.

I agree. I think trading Bargnani is should be one of our primary goals this season. I would be very disappointed and feel like we wasted a season if he's still here when Val comes over.

I too think that Milwaukee is the best destination for him as well. They have the space and lack the assets to acquire a better player than Bargs with what they have. I proposed the idea to the Bucks board and they believe that Bucks management would not take on Bargnani unless Gooden is going out, in which case it's not worth it for us (unless there's an amnesty clause and we use it on Gooden). We would save some money and send out the best player in the deal and Milwaukee will likely make the playoffs which will give us a mid-pick.

If Drummond is still on the board, I'd likely take him and see what it would take to get Miller (or another SF later in the draft). I have a feeling that Miller's early ACL injury could scare teams off of him. We also have Barbosa that can be traded to a contender for a late pick that will give us a little leverage to trade up or negotiate with. One of our bigs (assuming Drummond is drafted) can also be moved on draft night if there's someone else that's really intriguing on the board. I hope Colangelo is exploring that scenario.

A good framework would be something like Livingston + pick for Bargnani + cash.

[Lawnmower Man]

There's only one trade I want to see. We trade Bargnani to Milwaukee for their first round pick.

In 2012 Draft, we pick:
- a SF (ie. Quincy Miller) with our likely top-5 pick
- We draft a PG (ie. Kendall Marshall) with our newly acquired mid-first round pick.

We start the 2012/13 season with a core of Valanciunas, Davis, Amir, Quincy, DeRozan, Marshall, & Bayless..and we see how things develop. We fill the gaps with our cap space.

I agree. I think trading Bargnani is should be one of our primary goals this season. I would be very disappointed and feel like we wasted a season if he's still here when Val comes over.

I too think that Milwaukee is the best destination for him as well. They have the space and lack the assets to acquire a better player than Bargs with what they have. I proposed the idea to the Bucks board and they believe that Bucks management would not take on Bargnani unless Gooden is going out, in which case it's not worth it for us (unless there's an amnesty clause and we use it on Gooden). We would save some money and send out the best player in the deal and Milwaukee will likely make the playoffs which will give us a mid-pick.

Yea, it makes sense that Milwaukee would want to send out a contract like Gooden's in a trade, but these hesitations change when (at the trade deadline) Milwaukee is a fringe playoff team and are looking for an offensive boost to make that playoff push.

The Bucks have already proven that they're not going to commit to any rebuild when they signed Maggette, Gooden, and Salmons after that playoff year. They could very easily end up like Orlando with their D12 situation once Bogut and Jennings become free agents in the next couple of seasons.

They're not drafting any game changers in the late lotto, nor will they be trading for any All-Star talent. They're currently LAST in the league on offense, and Bargnani's "21 PPG" could help them. Who knows, maybe Bogut offsetting Bargnani's big man deficiencies gives Andrea a career year. It's a risk worth taking on their side. It's probably their best option. Otherwise they're a 9th place team for the next three years until Bogut and Jennings leave for nothing.

[Rapsfan07]

There's only one trade I want to see. We trade Bargnani to Milwaukee for their first round pick.

In 2012 Draft, we pick:
- a SF (ie. Quincy Miller) with our likely top-5 pick
- We draft a PG (ie. Kendall Marshall) with our newly acquired mid-first round pick.

We start the 2012/13 season with a core of Valanciunas, Davis, Amir, Quincy, DeRozan, Marshall, & Bayless..and we see how things develop. We fill the gaps with our cap space.

I agree. I think trading Bargnani is should be one of our primary goals this season. I would be very disappointed and feel like we wasted a season if he's still here when Val comes over.

I too think that Milwaukee is the best destination for him as well. They have the space and lack the assets to acquire a better player than Bargs with what they have. I proposed the idea to the Bucks board and they believe that Bucks management would not take on Bargnani unless Gooden is going out, in which case it's not worth it for us (unless there's an amnesty clause and we use it on Gooden). We would save some money and send out the best player in the deal and Milwaukee will likely make the playoffs which will give us a mid-pick.

Yea, it makes sense that Milwaukee would want to send out a contract like Gooden's in a trade, but these hesitations change when (at the trade deadline) Milwaukee is a fringe playoff team and are looking for an offensive boost to make that playoff push.

The Bucks have already proven that they're not going to commit to any rebuild when they signed Maggette, Gooden, and Salmons after that playoff year. They could very easily end up like Orlando with their D12 situation once Bogut and Jennings become free agents in the next couple of seasons.

They're not drafting any game changers in the late lotto, nor will they be trading for any All-Star talent. They're currently LAST in the league on offense, and Bargnani's "21 PPG" could help them. Who knows, maybe Bogut offsetting Bargnani's big man deficiencies gives Andrea a career year. It's a risk worth taking on their side. It's probably their best option. Otherwise they're a 9th place team for the next three years until Bogut and Jennings leave for nothing.

Agreed. Bucks aren't looking at a rebuild because they could have moved Bogut even at the draft for Williams + assets and they chose not to. Bargs is the best player they'll get for their limited assets but the key to striking a good deal with them will be timing. If Casey can crack the whip and make Bargs a somewhat better defender, I'm sure he can be moved at the deadline. Timing will be key.

[Laowai]

Bargs is worth much more than a mid round 1st and having to take back a terrible contract in Gooden that trade would never happen. For those on the board who complain about Bargs would slash there wrists getting Gooden.

[Rapsfan07]

Bargs is worth much more than a mid round 1st and having to take back a terrible contract in Gooden that trade would never happen. For those on the board who complain about Bargs would slash there wrists getting Gooden.

I would agree with you. But that's how WE view Bargs. Unfortunately we don't actually know his real trade value and the posters on RealGM aren't going to know exactly what he's worth but I do agree that we shouldn't have to take on Gooden. Colangelo did trade Turkoglu for Barbosa so at the deadline where Milwaukee will likely be looking to make a push, that would be the best time for it.

[DG88]

From the Trades board

Marvin Williams, 2013 1st Rd Pick
FOR
Andrea Bargnani

Why for Atlanta:
With Crawford likely leaving, the Hawks may need another option on the offensive end. Bargnani could also play center in Atlanta and while he gets some flack for being weak defensivley, Horford and Smith at the 4 and 3 should be enough to make up for it.
PF A. Horford/ A. Bargnani
SF J. Smith
C A. Bargnani/ Z. Pachulia
SG J. Johnson
PG J. Teague/ K. Hinrich

Why for Toronto:
Raps clean their PF glut rotation and get a guy in Marvin who is slightly cheaper than Bargs and comes in at 1 year less. Marvin can play the 3 well in Toronto, alongside DeRozan at the wing and perhaps could improve with more touches on the offensive end, something he did not get in Atlanta. The move most importantly allows Ed Davis more consistent minutes at the 4 and adds perhaps a nice first round pick to Toronto's asset pile for 2013. A 2012 pick could not be included due to the Hawks already dealing last season's pick to Washington.
PF E. Davis/ A. Johnson
SF M. Williams/ J. Johnson
C FA/ J. Dorsey/ S. Albi
SG D. DeRozan/ L. Barbosa/ L. Klieza
PG J. Bayless/ J. Calderon

Would we accept such a trade Bargs for Marvin + 2013 1st round pick