So long Jolly

[Wade-A-Holic]

Prison doesn't save people, rehabilitative services does.

Debatable.

Not really. Rehabilitative services don't always work, but if recidivism rates have shown us anything, it is that prison does not save people.

We agree on prisons, just not the effectiveness of rehabilitative services.

[humanrefutation]

We agree on prisons, just not the effectiveness of rehabilitative services.

Well, of course the effectiveness is largely circumstantial and is dependent on a myriad of factors. But, especially in the case of drug addiction (if Jolly is suffering from such an addiction, which seems like a reasonable assumption), I would argue that it is definitely the preferred route and has shown to be effective in a meaningful manner.

[chuckleslove]

For some people prison most certainly can and does save them, coming from someone who has had both parents spend a significant amount of my life in prison.

It isn't necessarily the prison that saves them but some people just can't help themselves and being forced to go through the withdrawal, they also then have to have some avenue inside of prison to occupy their time and help them move on, whether that is learning, religion, etc...

To say prisons don't help anyone rehab is naive. My dad in particular never would have gotten clean without prison, he did NA and AA and stuff and those things had no impact whatsoever, being locked up and forced go through withdrawal and being away from his family for 6 years however did force him to change his act

[jakecronus8]

Effectiveness aside, Jolly had special treatment due to his status and fame and has blown it multiple times. It's a spit in the face of our judicial system and he deserves to have the hammer brought down as hard as any normal folk

[emunney]

Yeah, I think the point is that it doesn't make sense to punish addicts for being addicts, pro football players and 'normal folk' alike. They need treatment and support, not adjudication.

[emunney]

I'd guess some prisons do it better than others, chuck. In a lot of big state penitentiaries, drug abuse is a lot more prevalent than it is outside the walls.

[Wade-A-Holic]

Effectiveness aside, Jolly had special treatment due to his status and fame and has blown it multiple times. It's a spit in the face of our judicial system and he deserves to have the hammer brought down as hard as any normal folk

The judicial system wasn't exactly favorable to him when his first trial was postponed indefinitely so that the police department could wait on some new testing equipment they could use (and according to some, needed) in order to convict him. Its not as if any person accused of a crime could ever say, "I'm innocent, but I need x amount of time to get this thing that will prove my innocence."

Jolly was given a single fantastic opportunity by the last judge after his second infraction but Goodell wouldn't even hear Johnny's case.

And again, this isn't like the Jeremy Jeffress situation, with some idiot simply not having enough self control to lay off of smoking some pot. We're dealing with a highly addictive substance in this instance.

[chuckleslove]

I'd guess some prisons do it better than others, chuck. In a lot of big state penitentiaries, drug abuse is a lot more prevalent than it is outside the walls.

No doubt I'm sure some prisons are better or worse than others, but my dad served in everything from minimum security up to maximum security across 2 states(he was granted a special transfer from Washington where he was arrested to Wisconsin where our family is originally from). I've visited and been in several prisons, I will never pretend to know the backstory of every poster on here but I find it a little naive to say that prisons don't help. Not only is my dad rehabilitated because of spending his time in prison(still a struggle with him for addictions, he is on a medication that literally blocks him from getting a high, if he took drugs now he just wouldn't get high), they estimated based on how his heroine addiction was and how much he was taking at the time of his last arrest that he would have likely overdosed in 30-90 days had he not been arrested and thrown in prison.

Now I'm not saying prison is the answer for everyone but some people absolutely need to be forced to go through withdrawal and hit rock bottom. Rehab programs might work for some people, I think ever person reacts differently to all sorts of treatment, my only issue is people making blanket statements about **** they obviously know nothing about, it is a fairly personal issue given what I've been through

[emunney]

I think it's painting with too broad of a brush to say that prisons never work, certainly. There are many people who are rehabilitated -- and many more who are not. I mean, statistically, there are very many people who aren't helped by anything, sadly. Overall, rehab and support works better than prison, but that's not to say it always works, or works better for every individual, just that over large numbers, it will tend to help more than prison.

I can see from reading your post that we're on the same page here by and large. Glad your dad got what he needed.