Retro Draft: Winner is Stun704

[SWedd523]

Yeah I really like the twin towers concept in a draft like this. It's just a daunting task matching up with two 7+ footers in a starting lineup. Wilt and Artis is just crazy big... and Dr. J is easily 6'10 with his afro



EDIT: Looking at our frontcourts, Dr. J (6'6), Wilt (7'1), and Artis (7'2) are almost identical to Scottie (6'8), Ewing (7'0), and Kareem (7'2). It'd be really interesting seeing those three go at it

[Diop]

Ewing is the best jump shooting Center the game has seen.

Sabonis says hi then shoots a 3 in Ewings face.

[captaincrunk]

Ewing is the best jump shooting Center the game has seen.

Sabonis says hi then

What was that? Mark Eaton blocked the rest of your post.

[SWedd523]

Ewing is the best jump shooting Center the game has seen.

Sabonis says hi then shoots a 3 in Ewings face.

1. Okur could shoot threes too. Ewing is still a better jump shooter


2. http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =ewingpa01

Ewing tells Sabonis to sit down

[captaincrunk]

I think a lot of good shooting big men were slotted as PF just because they could shoot.

[Diop]

Ewing is the best jump shooting Center the game has seen.

Sabonis says hi then shoots a 3 in Ewings face.

1. Okur could shoot threes too. Ewing is still a better jump shooter


2. http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... =ewingpa01

Ewing tells Sabonis to sit down

Sabonis was a decrepit old man by that stage. In his prime, he blows him away

[LamarMatic7]

so who makes the "all disrespected team"?

no disrespect to paul arizin, bill sharman and the other guys from pre 60s era, but i'm gonna focus on the guys from '60+

G: Derek Harper, Louie Dampier, Charlie Scott, Jo Jo White, Otis Birdsong, Stephon Marbury
F: Tom Chambers, Cliff Robinson, Tom Heinsoln, Marques Johnson, George McGinnis, Terry Cummings, Vin Baker
C: Ralph Sampson, Brad Daugherty

who else?

How about Maurice Lucas and Stevie Franchise?

[fatlever]

so who makes the "all disrespected team"?

no disrespect to paul arizin, bill sharman and the other guys from pre 60s era, but i'm gonna focus on the guys from '60+

G: Derek Harper, Louie Dampier, Charlie Scott, Jo Jo White, Otis Birdsong, Stephon Marbury
F: Tom Chambers, Cliff Robinson, Tom Heinsoln, Marques Johnson, George McGinnis, Terry Cummings, Vin Baker
C: Ralph Sampson, Brad Daugherty

who else?

How about Maurice Lucas and Stevie Franchise?

did lucas not get drafted? i came so close to picking him when i took spencer, but after that i didnt really have a category for him. he totatlly deserves a spot on the team. i also forgot to add danny ainge, the definitely deserves a spot.

i hate francis, but i guess he should get a mention.

[fatlever]

Team Fatlever aka "Team Bull in a China Shop"

PG: Oscar Robertson | Tiny Archibald | Kenny Smith
SG: David Thompson | Paul Westphal | Fat Lever
SF: Dave Debusschere | Detlef Schrempf | Dan Roundfield
PF: Charles Barkley | Shawn Kemp | Horace Grant | Spencer Haywood
CE: Dave Cowens | Alonzo Mourning

team bull in a china shop
- relentless
- aggressive
- intense
- defense
- versatile

i built my team to match the aggressive playing styles of my two best players, oscar and barkley. oscar and barkley both had a relentless attacking style on offense where they routinely punished their defenders with their overly physical games. i wanted to add players who also brought that same type of aggressiveness either on the offensive end or defensive end. thompson played in the same mold as michael jordan and dominique wilkens, with his aerial assault on the rim. cowens is one of the most aggressive and intense players to ever step on the floor. nobody beat cowens to a loose ball. in terms of his relentless style, cowens was like gerald wallace in the form of a hall of fame center. the only player i can think of who is more intense than cowens was alonzo mourning, perhaps the most intense player in the history of the league. nobody, NOBODY, will intimidate a team with oscar, barkley, mourning and cowens. and when you think of aggressive guards, tiny archibald was a pioneer. he was one of the most aggressive point guards in the history of the league (his 10.8 free throw attempts per game in 1971 as proof)

oscar and barkley are the two alpha dogs on this team. they will handle the primary scoring duties, with thompson (and westphal) as the 3rd scorer depending on who is in the game. cowens and mourning will be the intensity and defensive anchors in the middle. tiny and kemp are my game changers off the bench. they will come in and completely change the tempo of the game, pushing the speed of the game to a frenetic level. lever, roundfield, grant and detlef will be my utility guys off the bench. and spencer haywood is my wildcard. if he brings his A+ game each night, all of a sudden i have a top 20 talent coming off my bench at forward and center.

defenders at every position (players who made all defensive teams)
- mourning 2x dpoy
- debusschere 6x all defense
- cowens 3x all defense
- roundfield 5x all defense
- grant 6x all defense
- lever 2x all defense

versatile forwards
all of my forwards are long (except barkley) and cabable of either playing both forward spots (barkley, detlef, roundfield, debusschere) or both forward and center (kemp, grant and haywood).

versatile guards
oscar is the most versatile guard in the history of the league. nobody else can claim a season average of a triple double. fat lever is another one of the league's most versatile guards, like a poor man's oscar. both guys could play point guard and shooting guard equally well. thompson and westphal can both play some small forward in smaller lineups and kenny smith can also play some shooting guard when needed.

big lineup
oscar (lever), thompson (westphal), barkley (detlef/roundfield), cowens (kemp/grant/spencer), mourning

quick lineup
tiny (smith), oscar (lever), thompson (westphal), barkley (roundfield/detlef), kemp (spencer)

defensive lineup
lever, oscar, debusschere (roundfield), grant, mourning (cowens)

outside shooting lineup
smith, westphal, debusschere, detlef, mourning

[fatlever]

sorry for the long write-up. i was having too much fun to stop.

[captaincrunk]

Updating this.

Bob Cousy - Earl Monroe - Kevin Porter
Joe Dumars - Earl Monroe - Kendall Gill - Bob Dandridge
Dr. Julius Erving - Dolph Schayes - Toni Kukoc - Bob Dandridge - Kendall Gill - Paul Silas
Wilt Chamberlain - George Mikan - Paul Silas - Toni Kukoc - Dolph Schayes
Artis Gilmore - George Mikan - Christian Laettner - Toni Kukoc

Cousy, Dr. J, and Wilt Chamberlain. This game is so cool.

Mix and match in the frontcourt depending on opposition. Wilt, Mikan, and Artis Gilmore are all DPOY quality defenders, and Paul Silas ain't nothing to f*** with either. Earl Monroe comes off the bench at both guard positions, he is primarily a 2 guard he just happened to be a little shorter. Throw Dandridge in there at the 2 guard or Dumars or even Erving and you'll have a big backcourt either way so it would be more than fine, a nice balance.

Like last time, I think I have the strongest frontcourt, especially defensively. Just so much depth... In a league like this where there are Centers averaging 50 points a game, a defensive frontcourt is definitely necessary, not optional.

Mikan led the league in defensive win shares 5 times in a row. That's monstrous. Mikan would have taken DPOY at least 3 times, probably more. Wilt would have split them with Russell. Artis was on several first and second all defensive teams, and wasn't even in the NBA for much of his prime. Three all world defensive bigs.

Guards? Joe Dumars has 4 defensive first teams and a defensive second team. In the years that BBRef has them recorded, Bob Cousy was never out of the top 4 in defensive win shares, even as he was in his thirties. Cousy could play D, it's too bad they didn't have defensive awards back then. Earl Monroe's Drtg is pretty good. In the years on BBref he was better than Rajon Rondo, for instance. Same can be said of Julius Erving. Paul Silas is pretty nifty as well. Dandridge make an all defensive 1st team and can guard both wing positions.

Rebounding? lol. Wilt's 25 will go well with Gilmore's 18.3, and sprinkle in some Paul Silas, 8.5 from Erving, I don't think rebounding will be at all a problem, even with my smaller lineups.

Offense? Wilt scored over 50 points a game one season. That's mind boggling. It's just... What? How is that even possible? "On the combined NBA/ABA scoring list, Erving ranked third with 30,026 points. As of 2011, Erving ranks fifth on the list, behind only Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Karl Malone, Michael Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain." The rest of the lineup can all get at least 20.

3 ball? Schayes, Kukoc, Gill (36.8%), Dumars (career 38, best season 48%, also had 43% with over 380 taken on year), and Monroe are all good shooters. Most of my players were here before the 3pt line so it can be hard to gauge how they'd shoot, but there are plenty of shooters on the roster.

But none of these players have ever played with a Point Guard as good as Bob Cousy. Cousy will be the X-Factor on offense, the floor leader offensively. The team will score it's fast break points but it won't be reliant on them at all, as Wilt makes half court game look easy on his own. The half court game will be great, actually. Two 7 foot > 240 lbs guys setting monster screens to get my shooters open, getting deep post position, and let's not forget that Wilt once had 8.5 assists per game! It would be beautiful to see this team in the half court.

A lot of our teams will have problems finding their roles. On my team it will be a little easier, I suspect. Artis Gilmore won't get a lot of action on offense. When they double Wilt, Wilt can pass to a shooter or hit Artis, or just score like a boss anyway. Cousy knows how to be a floor general, and probably will get more assists than shots taken. My shooters know their role pretty well, I tried to make a team that wouldn't have too many conflicts and I think I succeeded.

Big lineup: You just saw it. If I face slam playing Barkeley at SF, Silas will guard him at SF. Woop!

Quick Lineup Cousy/Earl Monroe/Dumars/Dolph Schayes/Kukoc (or Mikan or another big forward/c)

Defensive: Dumars/Erving/Paul Silas/Mikan/ Wilt or Artis

Scoring in bunches: Cousy/Monroe/Erving/Mikan/Wilt - The ball movement would be phenomenal and they can all get shots for themselves.

Kukoc isn't in any of those specific lineups. That's because he can play all 5 positions and will get mop up minutes like nobody's business. He's like a extremely wealthy man's Boris Diaw, or just a regular wealthy man's Lamar Odom.

And the last thing I want to say is that this team is very deep. Injuries wouldn't hurt me much. Porter can get over 9 assists a game if Cousy goes down. If Wilt goes down I've got 3 other players who can play center full time. I've got 6 players who can hit the Small Forward spot, 4 or 5 shooting guards, 5 or 6 power forwards, and about 4 point guards. Versatility is a must if you're gonna play for captaincrunk.

[BigSlam]

Mix and match in the frontcourt depending on opposition.

Too big and slow.

Mikan led the league in defensive win shares 5 times in a row. That's monstrous. Mikan would have taken DPOY at least 3 times, probably more.

He played in a era that didn't have goal tending and had no real athletes. As soon as guys like Russell came along, guys like Mikan became a non factor.

Guards? Joe Dumars has 4 defensive first teams and a defensive second team.

He's cool as heck, but undersized.

Offense? Wilt scored over 50 points a game one season. That's mind boggling. It's just... What? How is that even possible?

How many wins did his team have that season and was he wearing a ring at the end of it? Actually, how many rings does Wilt have over all? Considering his staggering stats, stats like 50ppg, what did he actually achieve (damn you book of basketball!!)?

But none of these players have ever played with a Point Guard as good as Bob Cousy

No doubt. Cousy is a stud.

And the last thing I want to say is that this team is very deep.

Dude - every team is deep. It's the nature of this draft!!

Bob Cousy - Earl Monroe - Kevin Porter
Joe Dumars - Earl Monroe - Kendall Gill - Bob Dandridge
Dr. Julius Erving - Dolph Schayes - Toni Kukoc - Bob Dandridge - Kendall Gill - Paul Silas
Wilt Chamberlain - George Mikan - Paul Silas - Toni Kukoc - Dolph Schayes
Artis Gilmore - George Mikan - Christian Laettner - Toni Kukoc

Weird line up.

[captaincrunk]

I edited the post.

Mix and match in the frontcourt depending on opposition.

Too big and slow.

That's what the mixing and matching is for.

Mikan led the league in defensive win shares 5 times in a row. That's monstrous. Mikan would have taken DPOY at least 3 times, probably more.

He played in a era that didn't have goal tending and had no real athletes. As soon as guys like Russell came along, guys like Mikan became a non factor.

That's simply not true. While yes he was goaltending, especially early on, he was still an all around great defender. You can't fault him for taking what the league gave him. Also, they introduced the foul lane rule and 3 second violations to stop his goaltending (and eventually just made it flat out illegal) and he was still an effective defender, leading the league in defensive win shares.

Guards? Joe Dumars has 4 defensive first teams and a defensive second team.

He's cool as heck, but undersized.

Undersized? 6'3" isn't really undersized. Dwayne Wade is 6'3" and it doesn't hurt him. His height clearly never stopped him from being one of the greatest defensive guards of all time.

Offense? Wilt scored over 50 points a game one season. That's mind boggling. It's just... What? How is that even possible?

How many wins did his team have that season and was he wearing a ring at the end of it? Actually, how many rings does Wilt have over all? Considering his staggering stats, stats like 50ppg, what did he actually achieve (damn you book of basketball!!)?

Well he did win two rings (one in philly, one with Lakers) and 4 season MVPs. He should have won more MVPs but people hated him. He also lost a lot when he didn't have the supporting cast to win the finals. But going to a team with championship experience helped a lot. And I think Bob Cousy's championship experience will be a big help.

But none of these players have ever played with a Point Guard as good as Bob Cousy

No doubt. Cousy is a stud.

I think Wilt especially will benefit. He won't be expected to have the ball every possession, keeping his energy higher and his scoring efficiency up. In general though, I think Wilt would be a much better player on this team. He's getting help defensively, offensively, and has a lot of guys who can get him the ball instead of feeding his ego by dumping it to him and running away.

And the last thing I want to say is that this team is very deep.

Dude - every team is deep. It's the nature of this draft!!

Yeah but a lot of teams would hurt with injuries.

Bob Cousy - Earl Monroe - Kevin Porter
Joe Dumars - Earl Monroe - Kendall Gill - Bob Dandridge
Dr. Julius Erving - Dolph Schayes - Toni Kukoc - Bob Dandridge - Kendall Gill - Paul Silas
Wilt Chamberlain - George Mikan - Paul Silas - Toni Kukoc - Dolph Schayes
Artis Gilmore - George Mikan - Christian Laettner - Toni Kukoc

Weird line up.

Yeah, I had to clone Kukoc 3 times. The rules didn't say I couldn't. I was gonna play:

Cousy
Dr J
Wilt
Wilt
Wilt

But I figured that would be unfair.

[BigSlam]

And the last thing I want to say is that this team is very deep.

Dude - every team is deep. It's the nature of this draft!!

Yeah but a lot of teams would hurt with injuries.

I get what you are saying - although I think that drug testing would have more of an effect on teams than injuries!!

[SWedd523]

I don't think injuries have any bearing in this competition. We're, of course, taking players in their absolute primes, so I doubt any of these guys were at their best when they were injured

[captaincrunk]

Dude - every team is deep. It's the nature of this draft!!

Yeah but a lot of teams would hurt with injuries.

I get what you are saying - although I think that drug testing would have more of an effect on teams than injuries!!

haha. A positive effect on the court, no doubt. Well assuming they stopped using drugs instead of stopped playing basketball.

I don't think injuries have any bearing in this competition. We're, of course, taking players in their absolute primes, so I doubt any of these guys were at their best when they were injured

Yes but injuries can happen during competition. We're acting like our teams are gonna do a season and some playoffs or something right?

Training camp - season - playoffs was the vibe I got. Gives the teams time to gel a bit too.

[Paydro70]

Depth Chart:

Isiah Thomas / Dave Bing
Michael Jordan / Michael Cooper / Drazen Petrovic
Dominique Wilkins / Penny Hardaway
Elvin Hayes / Dan Issel / Mel Daniels
Robert Parish / Yao Ming

Reserves: Phil Jackson, Jim Paxson, and Rolando Blackman (hey, they rhyme!)

In a way this squad bears some resemblance to my other scavenger hunt draft... its best attribute is its absolutely ludicrous athleticism. All five starters are elite athletes for their positions, and if there's a better player to run the fast break than Isiah Thomas, I have not seen them. This team is going to be a very serious problem in transition, particularly for the teams that are choosing to start two true centers. We're going to be doing a lot of running and a lot of dunking.

As an added bonus, my starting lineup is composed of basically entirely iron men; all made it through their peaks without serious injury, and several are legendary for their toughness. If there's a squad that won't run out of gas in the playoffs, even playing at a fast pace, it's this one.

In looking at teams as obviously stacked as these are, the important question is which players are going to be asked to sacrifice touches for the sake of the team... there aren't enough basketballs for all five guys to score tons of points. As such, in the half court I expect Parish to take the smallest role, primarily scoring off of offensive rebounds and those random times that he comes open. Isiah will play almost a Rondoesque role, primarily acting as a distributor to my three big offensive weapons: Jordan, Wilkins, and Hayes. All three absolutely CARRIED offenses, and did it with remarkable efficiency. As a trio of scorers, where none are expected to take 1/3 of the team's shots? I think it stacks up.

I chose my bench with a mind to filling in the gaps in my starters' games. I picked a center who is impossible to defend (Yao) in case I need some scoring out of that spot (alternatively I can also play Hayes there, he did that a lot in his career, and let Issel slide in at PF). I picked a guy who could defend anybody (Cooper) in case someone gets hot or represents a matchup problem (most likely this would be someone torching Wilkins I suppose). I picked a versatile playmaking SF (Hardaway) in case we need some wing ballhandling while Jordan is taking a breather.

I suppose the real elephant in the room is that a lot of my players hate each other. I have no real defense here... I'm mostly hoping that MJ's insane competitiveness, Isiah's knowledge of "the secret," and Phil Jackson's moderating influence smooth out the bumps.

[fatlever]

i love the write-up paydro. top shelf.

[Diop]

Depth Chart
Pg. G. Payton, M. Blaylock, C. Murphy
Sg. P. Maravich, Latrell Sprewell, W. Free
Sf. L. Bird, B. Cunningham, D. Christie
Pf. W. Unseld, L. Nance, D. Coleman
C. B. Walton, A. Sabonis, D. Dawkins

The one problem with picking a team full of stars is that they don't always mix together well. Stars often want to be the man and take over the offence. So when selecting players, especially my starting 5, I looked for a mix of players who were willing to play the team game.

Every member of the starting 5 were excellent passers and enjoyed creating for others. Unseld is the ultimate team man and does all the dirty work that help team mates look good (how many people have won Finals MVP while averaging less than 10 pts!!!), Walton could do it all from the Center position, score, pass, block shots, Pistol Pete was an extremely creative passer and scorer, while Payton will defend the best guard and Larry Bird can do anything on the court and will do anything to win. This offence would be a thing of beauty to watch and defensively this team will make you work.

Like everyone, my bench is deep and try's to cover all options. There is plenty more defence on the bench with Nance, Blaylock, Christie. There are offensive sparks in Free and Murphy. How many alley oops would get thrown to Dawkins, Nance, Sprewell, Free. Payton thought it was fun throwing them to Kemp, he would have a field day with this team. Tons of athleticism.

I can go big with the young Sabonis being mobile enough to guard 4's and having the outside game to be able to compliment Walton well.

I can go fast with Dawkins at center. I have the options to mix and match whatever the opposition throws at me.

I've said from the start that I would find it difficult to pick the best team in this competition, but I think my team is as good as anybodies here. They know and would buy into the secret and would be tough to beat.

[SWedd523]

The only issues I have with that team are it's lack out outside shooting and what seems to be a lack of cohesion. Can we expect Isiah to defer to MJ, or just freeze him out like he prefers?

Also, I would have the offense run through MJ and Isiah, almost as a dual PG, dual scorer role. Have the bigs crash the boards and score when needed, and have Nique do all the little things like a better version of Crash