Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread

Post #1061 » by **DG88** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:06 am

Meeting is over both sides are meeting Monday at 2pm to continue talks. Both sides are hush hush on the matters of the meeting.

Post #1062 » by **Cyrus** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:21 am

According to Spears of Yahoo, both sides no closer than they were going into the meeting on sunday.

So same old, same old...

Post #1063 » by **DG88** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:30 am

ChrisMannixSI Chris Mannix
There was NO discussion of split of the BRI at Sunday night's meeting, according to a source briefed on the talks. System only.

S.W.A.N · Post #1064 » by **S.W.A.N** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:46 am

I think the fact that they went 5 hours and say no progress is actually a good thing.

Cause you know they lying... I fthere was no progress then they would of packed up and left.

They ignored bri and started tackling the system stuff, this means tomorrow the union guys will talk, owners will talk and then in the afternoon they can start the 'final' negotiation on BRI full well knowing what they system would be.

Everyone in the world knows that the final BRI is going to be between 50-52 percent for players. It just a matter of both sides giving a little to make it happen.

If its going to be closer to 50 percent than players need a give back on they system side (contract lengths or luxury tax ) and vice versa if the bri goes the players way then the owners need a little something something on the system side.

By now both sides should have done the math on how much they lose now by compromising more than the intended to VS lockout continuing, losing games paychecks and going to court.

And since negotiations are going right up to the last minutes of deadline to get deal done they both get to say that they did the best they could and sacraficed a little bit for 'the good of the game, and the fans'

BIG EDDIE · Post #1065 » by **BIG EDDIE** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:22 am

S.W.A.N wrote:I think the fact that they went 5 hours and say no progress is actually a good thing.

Cause you know they lying... I fthere was no progress then they would of packed up and left.

They ignored bri and started tackling the system stuff, this means tomorrow the union guys will talk, owners will talk and then in the afternoon they can start the 'final' negotiation on BRI full well knowing what they system would be.

Everyone in the world knows that the final BRI is going to be between 50-52 percent for players. It just a matter of both sides giving a little to make it happen.

If its going to be closer to 50 percent than players need a give back on they system side (contract lengths or luxury tax ) and vice versa if the bri goes the players way then the owners need a little something something on the system side.

By now both sides should have done the math on how much they lose now by compromising more than the intended to VS lockout continuing, losing games paychecks and going to court.

And since negotiations are going right up to the last minutes of deadline to get deal done they both get to say that they did the best they could and sacraficed a little bit for 'the good of the game, and the fans'

Very nicely explained, you are completely reading my mind here, just exactly what I think too.

J-Roc · Post #1066 » by **J-Roc** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:53 pm

Parataxis wrote:
AB_7 wrote:whoa my post was ripped apart:
- And finally to whoever says this (parastax or something):
"There is no direct co-relation between employee pay, and profitability. "
That is plain wrong (with notable exceptions).
Example: Pay Kapono more does he do better? Or will Lebron? Or Bosh? Or Kobe?

You're confusing paying your employees more, with paying specific employees more. There's a big difference.

If Store A offers their employees $10/hr, and Store B offers their employees $12/hr, then Store B is going to get the better, more qualified employees. As a result, their guys will be better able to sell/provide service/whatever. This will lead to better customer relations/more sales, which can increase profits (if managed poorly).

So no, paying employees more doesn't have to mean making less.

I need you to explain that to my boss at work.

nahom1319 · Post #1067 » by **nahom1319** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:34 pm

Source close to talks tells SI.com luxury tax structure is main system issue holding up a deal. Story to be posted this morning.

Taken from Zach Lowe (SI)
____________________________

Looks like the nba season will be happening...but im trying not to get my hopes up.

edit: awwwww fawk main SYSTEM issue.... ffs

BLKMASS · Post #1068 » by **BLKMASS** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:30 pm

The NBA owners have already won these negotiations — that give back by the players represents $160 million a season and more than $1 billion over the course of a six-year labor deal — but the owners are now trying to pour it on and win by 50. They are pushing for a bigger cut of the pie and some are willing to miss a lot of games to get it.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... deal-a-lot

Owners are trash.

J-Roc · Post #1069 » by **J-Roc** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:35 pm

As long as the owners come away with a better deal than the last one, they look good. But I have a feeling Stern went in thinking big, like Bettman did with the NHL, so relatively speaking a deal done today would be a loss for Stern.

Dr Positivity · Post #1070 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:56 pm

Anybody else think they should say "Ok neither one of us wants to miss games and we have no time left. We're at a deadlock of whether it's 51 or 52%. Heads owners win, tails players win. It's unfair but hey, it's better than missing games. *David Stern flips coin*"

S.W.A.N · Post #1071 » by **S.W.A.N** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:08 pm

J-Roc wrote:As long as the owners come away with a better deal than the last one, they look good. But I have a feeling Stern went in thinking big, like Bettman did with the NHL, so relatively speaking a deal done today would be a loss for Stern.

I think its the opposite. Stern wants a deal done...

This is his legacy, his last big negotiation before he rides off into the sunset. He wants to go out on his own terms, a win (which he has already achieved) and with good press. He loves being the bully but I think he also wants to be the guy that saves the owners from themselves.

If a deal gets done today its because Stern bullied the hard line owners into falling in line. Many owners don't want a deal done today. They want a total chance in the landscape (which they don't deserve) and are willing to miss a season because they (the bottom feeders) were going to lose money regardless.

KG1585 · Post #1072 » by **KG1585** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:17 pm

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
The NBA is reporting on its website that it's nearing an agreement with NBPA on a new, reduced version of mid-level exception.

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
The mid-level exception is one part of system elements -- including luxury tax on salary cap, Bird Rights, etc. -- that must be agreed on.

Progress! They actually made progress...

Tofubeque · Post #1073 » by **Tofubeque** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:23 pm

This is getting dramatic.

I would have been happy if the Raptors missed a crappy season for the sake of a league hard cap, but now that it's getting to the deadline, I'm not sure I can stomach going that long with no basketball.

NH · Post #1074 » by NH » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:24 pm

S.W.A.N wrote:
J-Roc wrote:As long as the owners come away with a better deal than the last one, they look good. But I have a feeling Stern went in thinking big, like Bettman did with the NHL, so relatively speaking a deal done today would be a loss for Stern.

I think its the opposite. Stern wants a deal done...

This is his legacy, his last big negotiation before he rides off into the sunset. He wants to go out on his own terms, a win (which he has already achieved) and with good press. He loves being the bully but I think he also wants to be the guy that saves the owners from themselves.

If a deal gets done today its because Stern bullied the hard line owners into falling in line. Many owners don't want a deal done today. They want a total chance in the landscape (which they don't deserve) and are willing to miss a season because they (the bottom feeders) were going to lose money regardless.

+1, Stern does not want a lockout. Lockout is bad for business and the image of the league. Both sides know that the NBA is riding high on interest (i.e. the Mavs championship, the Big 3 in Miami, the Spurs, Lakers, and Celtics going for one last run, emergence of Rose and Durant etc), and that is why they are trying hard to get a deal done. In today's economy, a lockout will cause people to lose interest, which is something that will take time to rebuild again. Hopefully something gets done today.

Post #1075 » by **Schad** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:00 pm

Count me in the "deal gets done today" crowd, and for the same reasons. Stern truly is in a tough position...he doesn't want the lockout to be his legacy, but if the owners screw things up over the course of the next CBA, there's a good chance that he becomes the scapegoat.

Cool-Hand-Luke · Post #1076 » by **Cool-Hand-Luke** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:11 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:Count me in the "deal gets done today" crowd, and for the same reasons. Stern truly is in a tough position...he doesn't want the lockout to be his legacy, but if the owners screw things up over the course of the next CBA, there's a good chance that he becomes the scapegoat.

Signs are pointing to the two sides wanting no regular season cancellations. I am also starting, for the first time in a long time, to be hopeful. I will regret this by the end of the day I am sure.

C_Money · Post #1077 » by **C_Money** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:22 pm

K well David Stern said if there's no deal by monday he's going to cancel the first 2 weeks of the season. So whats going to happen?

J-Roc · Post #1078 » by **J-Roc** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:39 pm

S.W.A.N wrote:
J-Roc wrote:As long as the owners come away with a better deal than the last one, they look good. But I have a feeling Stern went in thinking big, like Bettman did with the NHL, so relatively speaking a deal done today would be a loss for Stern.

I think its the opposite. Stern wants a deal done...

This is his legacy, his last big negotiation before he rides off into the sunset. He wants to go out on his own terms, a win (which he has already achieved) and with good press. He loves being the bully but I think he also wants to be the guy that saves the owners from themselves.

If a deal gets done today its because Stern bullied the hard line owners into falling in line. Many owners don't want a deal done today. They want a total chance in the landscape (which they don't deserve) and are willing to miss a season because they (the bottom feeders) were going to lose money regardless.

Never underestimate the power of spin. But writers like Wojnarowski will spin their own anti-Stern versions. And Goodell in the NFL stayed rather quiet. Stern talks a big game. A deal today has him with his tail between his legs.

I think what he really wants as his legacy......now or later...is a hard cap. To be the guy who moves the NBA to that inevitable era. For him to pussyout even before regular season games are lost....weak.

S.W.A.N · Post #1079 » by **S.W.A.N** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:47 pm

J-Roc wrote:
S.W.A.N wrote:
J-Roc wrote:As long as the owners come away with a better deal than the last one, they look good. But I have a feeling Stern went in thinking big, like Bettman did with the NHL, so relatively speaking a deal done today would be a loss for Stern.

I think its the opposite. Stern wants a deal done...

This is his legacy, his last big negotiation before he rides off into the sunset. He wants to go out on his own terms, a win (which he has already achieved) and with good press. He loves being the bully but I think he also wants to be the guy that saves the owners from themselves.

If a deal gets done today its because Stern bullied the hard line owners into falling in line. Many owners don't want a deal done today. They want a total chance in the landscape (which they don't deserve) and are willing to miss a season because they (the bottom feeders) were going to lose money regardless.

Never underestimate the power of spin. But writers like Wojnarowski will spin their own anti-Stern versions. And Goodell in the NFL stayed rather quiet. Stern talks a big game. A deal today has him with his tail between his legs.

I think what he really wants as his legacy......now or later...is a hard cap. To be the guy who moves the NBA to that inevitable era. For him to pussyout even before regular season games are lost....weak.

As per usual you are out to lunch.

Hard cap is a no go, will not happen... This about maximizing the amount of money owners make. And reducing the number of games played reduces owners profits.

So grabbing as much player money as possible while maintaining 82 games has always been the goal for Stern.

Post #1080 » by **Cyrus** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:12 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:Count me in the "deal gets done today" crowd, and for the same reasons. Stern truly is in a tough position...he doesn't want the lockout to be his legacy, but if the owners screw things up over the course of the next CBA, there's a good chance that he becomes the scapegoat.

Actually Stern wants a System that expands to Europe to be his legacy...

The only way that'll happen is with controlled costs, so much so, that he can make his dream of the first league to have a truly international Set of teams apart of it.

He wants his last negotiation to be 50/50 or near that...Along with the other things. Plus I think we may see a similar NFL like agreement of 10 years or longer, no point if he lets Players or owners opt out in 4-5 years.