Post Game: Cool, Calm, Collected: Matty Ice

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I don't think Newz is giving the Pack d enough credit. They were visibly forcing the Falcons to pass by allowing 1-on-1 coverage and jamming the line. You normally can't run against the Pack and then to try to do it with more guys jamming the line would be insane. If Matty Ice would've connected on a deep ball, it would have opened up the running game.

[ReasonablySober]

I think it just comes down to the idea that the Falcons offense sorta sucks. They couldn't run, and they weren't putting their receivers in position to make plays. They need to get creative with that team.

[chuckleslove]

I thought they were very creative early in the first two drives and definitely got away from that, it is like they used up all their unique plays trying to bury us and hope that would be enough but we didn't panic.

Early on they did some end arounds, the shovel pass after sucking Clay in, lots of misdirection and stuff mostly focused on avoiding Clay or getting him going in the opposite direction of the plays.

Then after their first two drives they were much more vanilla and we started to shut them down.

[ReasonablySober]

I thought they were very creative early in the first two drives and definitely got away from that, it is like they used up all their unique plays trying to bury us and hope that would be enough but we didn't panic.

Early on they did some end arounds, the shovel pass after sucking Clay in, lots of misdirection and stuff mostly focused on avoiding Clay or getting him going in the opposite direction of the plays.

Then after their first two drives they were much more vanilla and we started to shut them down.

Yup. Maybe the end-arounds and shovel passes were smoke and mirrors and not sustainable, but they won't beat good teams with the traditional stuff they were trying.

[Newz]

I thought they were very creative early in the first two drives and definitely got away from that, it is like they used up all their unique plays trying to bury us and hope that would be enough but we didn't panic.

Early on they did some end arounds, the shovel pass after sucking Clay in, lots of misdirection and stuff mostly focused on avoiding Clay or getting him going in the opposite direction of the plays.

Then after their first two drives they were much more vanilla and we started to shut them down.

This I definitely agree with.

[Turk Nowitzki]

Any news on Clifton yet?

[an_also]

Any news on Clifton yet?

McCarthy on Clifton: Suffered a significant hamstring, probably take a couple weeks to get hands around how significant. Will be out weeks

[Flames24Rulz]

I'll be thrilled if he can come back this season.

[Ill-yasova]

Any news on Clifton yet?

McCarthy on Clifton: Cliffy has a hamstring. Will be out weeks

Fixed

[an_also]

BJ raji went off on the falcons after the game.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/131426723.html

[El Duderino]

I think it just comes down to the idea that the Falcons offense sorta sucks. They couldn't run, and they weren't putting their receivers in position to make plays. They need to get creative with that team.

Watching Atlanta multiple times between last year and last night, two thoughts came to my mind when watching their offense.

1. I'm 100 percent certain that their offense would be more productive if McCarthy was running it. They kinda have that uncreative Bears under Ron Turner feel to their offense, just with a better QB and weapons.

2. Somewhat tied to point one, Matt Ryan isn't a good fit for what they seem to be wanting their offense to be. They want to be a run the ball and then throw downfield off play action. In the offseason they go out and add Julio Jones who has the size and speed to be a major downfield threat that they lacked.

The big flaw i see in that plan is in watching Ryan, he doesn't throw downfield that well. Most pass plays over say 20 yards in the NFL tend to be either deep seam or corner routes about 17-25 yards downfield or your typical bombs in the air 30 plus yards. Ryan doesn't excel at either type of pass. On those deep seam routes he lacks zip on his passes to fit balls into usually tight areas, along with lacking a super quick release. Those added split seconds between his longer release and nothing special arm strength are often enough for a defender to get a hand in there compared to guys like Brady/Rodgers. Just look how often when Rodgers completes those type of passes a defenders hand is a split second away from deflecting the throw. On the deeper bomb throws, he simply strikes me as not being consistently accurate enough.

Ryan does seem to be a smart guy though and i think he'd do better in a system like say the Patriots run with 3-5 wide receivers/tight ends out on most plays and many of those patterns crossing shorter across the field instead trying to run an offense with some big speed guys who can potentially run past corners downfield like J.Jones can. He's not mobile either. The more i watch Ryan the more he seems like just an above average game manager, but with a smarter offensive coordinator and a Cobb/Welker type in the slot, he could be more effective. Lastly, Turner isn't completely done, but he's not the back he was.

[El Duderino]

I thought they were very creative early in the first two drives and definitely got away from that, it is like they used up all their unique plays trying to bury us and hope that would be enough but we didn't panic.

Early on they did some end arounds, the shovel pass after sucking Clay in, lots of misdirection and stuff mostly focused on avoiding Clay or getting him going in the opposite direction of the plays.

Then after their first two drives they were much more vanilla and we started to shut them down.

This I definitely agree with.

Well, an offense can only get away with those type of trickery plays so often because a defense will start wising up. Then, an offense simply has to win with their regular scheme and players.

[Kerb Hohl]

Here is a major reason of why they keep the offense vanilla:

Matty Ice doesn't throw a great deep ball. I think they feel that they can wear you out with his accuracy down the field. 9 times out of 10, if a team has an explosive QB, they'll let him open it up.

I saw a stat that Matty is 30% on balls over 15 yards this year while Rodgers is some ridiculous number like 70%.

I'm not saying he can't cut up a D, but as most would agree, he's not in that top tier for these reasons. Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Brady, Rivers will light you up 9/10 games with the one modest game against a stellar D. With Mr. Ice/Schaub/Romo/Eli it's 50/50 and normally they can't light top defenses. Ben is an odd wildcard, Stafford and Newton are in the 2nd class with a chance to enter the 1st. Vick is another wildcard that has it all but a slew of problems.

[El Duderino]

I see Atlanta being in a really bad spot going forward.

The multiple rule changes over the years which have made passing the ball significantly easier, it's for in most cases eliminated the chances for team to get to a Super Bowl via a good running game, a good defense, quality special teams, and a functional passing game that doesn't turn it over a lot. In the past teams could get to Super Bowl with that way of playing.

In today's NFL though, teams with a top 5-7 quarterback and quality receiving weapons can simply shred most defenses out there. Line up in 3-5 receiver sets on most downs and spread out defenses. The mix of rule changes not allowing guys in the secondary to breathe on receivers before the throw, not hit them hard after the catch, pass rushers having to be very careful about hitting the QB, and advances scheme wise by offensive coordinators, it's largely left behind offenses like Atlanta and many others lacking a upper tier QB. They just can't consistently keep putting enough points on the scoreboard with offenses that can throw the ball up and down the field.

So here sits Atlanta. Ryan isn't a bad QB by any means, but very likely not good enough in today's NFL to win a ring. He's not bad enough either though for the Falcons to ever win only 2-3-4 games and hope to land the next Newton or Luck. They won't draft a QB in the 2nd-3rd rounds in hopes of striking gold. Most likely so long as Ryan is around, they'll miss the playoffs by 1-3 games when the defense is nothing special to poor and maybe get in with a good defense, but be unable to reach the Super Bowl after getting in. Lots of years going forward finishing in that 6-10 to 10-6 range.

[El Duderino]

Speaking of how rule changes have contributed quite a bit to making it much easier to throw the ball today in the NFL, i saw this on youtube recently and even though i'm old enough to have watched the NFL during the time many of these hits were made, i almost forgot that this kind of hitting was the norm and mostly legal. I understand why a lot of this stuff was rule changed out of the league, but the changes made it seem kinda weird watching this. Being a QB or WR before about year 2000 was big time hazardous work, no wonder the retired players fought for better health care benefits. The hit on Montana near the end of the clip was flat out nasty and no flag even considered.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXLOHF71L_c[/youtube]

[Ayt]

I don't know how you can say that a worn out defense that had already been battered on the ground would just stuff them like it is a fact. It could have happened, yeah. Our run defense has been great this year, but it wasn't great up until that point. I think the reason we started to really bottle up the run is because the D got to spend more time off of the field due to horrendous play calling.

But if I am them I am taking my chances with what got me to 14-0 in the first place. Grinding out first downs and moving it up and down the field. I'm sure every team would prefer to be the Packers and just throw the ball around, score a ton of points... But it doesn't work that way. Ryan isn't even remotely close to Rodgers and the gap between their weapons and ours is huge.

I absolutely, 100% disagree with you that the best way to beat the Packers if you are the Falcons is a shootout. I'd say we win 99 times out of 100 if they just make it a shootout between Rodgers and Ryan... it isn't even close.

They didn't even run a ton on the first two possessions.

First drive:

(15:00) 33-M.Turner left guard to ATL 22 for 2 yards (90-B.Raji; 93-E.Walden).
2-8-ATL 22 (14:24) 33-M.Turner left end to ATL 28 for 6 yards (50-A.Hawk; 93-E.Walden). (Wood whiffed a tackle at the LOS)
3-2-ATL 28 (13:40) (Shotgun) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 88-T.Gonzalez to ATL 36 for 8 yards (93-E.Walden).
1-10-ATL 36 (12:57) 2-M.Ryan scrambles ran ob at ATL 37 for 1 yard (59-B.Jones).
2-9-ATL 37 (12:27) 33-M.Turner left end pushed ob at GB 48 for 15 yards (55-D.Bishop). (Should have been about a 1 yard gain but Wood completely whiffed on his tackle again).
1-10-GB 48 (11:52) 2-M.Ryan pass incomplete short right to 34-O.Mughelli. (They get a 1st and what do they do? Pass on 1st)
2-10-GB 48 (11:47) 2-M.Ryan pass incomplete short left to 11-J.Jones.
3-10-GB 48 (11:43) (Shotgun) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 83-H.Douglas pushed ob at GB 35 for 13 yards (38-T.Williams). (Our CBs were playing off the LOS a lot early, with Williams lining up 8 yards off the LOS on this play)
1-10-GB 35 (11:13) 11-J.Jones left end pushed ob at GB 18 for 17 yards (21-C.Woodson).
1-10-GB 18 (10:35) 33-M.Turner right end to GB 20 for -2 yards (55-D.Bishop). (Exceptional read and explosion into the hole by Bishop)
2-12-GB 20 (9:57) 22-J.Rodgers left end pushed ob at GB 9 for 11 yards (42-M.Burnett). (Well executed screen to the slot reciever)
3-1-GB 9 (9:51) PENALTY on ATL, Illegal Substitution, 5 yards, enforced at GB 9 - No Play.
3-6-GB 14 (9:07) (Shotgun) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 88-T.Gonzalez to GB 5 for 9 yards (26-C.Peprah).
Timeout #1 by ATL at 08:21.
1-5-GB 5 (8:19) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 84-R.White for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN [93-E.Walden].

So that is 4 runs and 8 passes. The runs went for 2 (1st and 10), 6 (2nd and 8), 15 (2nd and 9), and -2 (1st and 10). Their 1st down plays were a run for 2, a pass where Ryan scrambled for 1, a pass for 17, a run for -2, and a pass for 5.

They didn't exactly run it down our throats on that drive.

Their second drive:

1-10-ATL 40 (3:31) 33-M.Turner right end to ATL 37 for -3 yards (98-C.Wilson).
2-13-ATL 37 (2:53) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 44-J.Snelling to GB 46 for 17 yards (50-A.Hawk).
1-10-GB 46 (2:04) 33-M.Turner right guard to GB 42 for 4 yards (21-C.Woodson).
2-6-GB 42 (1:24) (Shotgun) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 11-J.Jones to GB 26 for 16 yards (37-S.Shields).
1-10-GB 26 (:47) 33-M.Turner left tackle to GB 20 for 6 yards (26-C.Peprah; 42-M.Burnett). ATL-75-G.Reynolds was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.
2-4-GB 20 (15:00) 33-M.Turner right guard to GB 13 for 7 yards (21-C.Woodson).
1-10-GB 13 (14:19) 33-M.Turner right tackle to GB 13 for no gain (55-D.Bishop).
2-10-GB 13 (13:40) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 84-R.White pushed ob at GB 5 for 8 yards (26-C.Peprah) [93-E.Walden].
3-2-GB 5 (13:12) (Shotgun) 2-M.Ryan pass short middle to 44-J.Snelling to GB 1 for 4 yards (26-C.Peprah).
1-1-GB 1 (12:29) 33-M.Turner right guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

They didn't run it down our throat there either. They got -3 on the first play, then on a big 2nd and 13 we give up a pass of 17. They run for 4 on 1st, then pass for 16 on 2nd. Turner then runs for 6 ten 7 to pick up another 1st. He then runs for no gain, and they again pass on 2nd down.

On their 3rd drive, they did pass on 1st down from the 20. They were running a 2 TE (both TEs on the left), 1 Form set with White as the only WR (split right). It was a playaction post, and Ryan made a terrible pass after our LBs bit on the fake. With Tramon playing off like he was and with one of our safeties cheating up a bit on most 1st down plays (Peprah was basically lined up as a LB on this play), it was a very good call with poor execution. AR nails White for a 20+ yard gain. It is hard for me to call that an awful play. On 2nd and 10, I can't fault them for passing instead of running. We get decent pressure up the middle against a 4 WR spread set and force an incompletion. You obviously pass on 3rd and 10 here. They go 4 WR, shotty and Ice rolls out and completes a big 47 yard gain, but Clay is held. On 3rd and 20, they are ****.

They only had three possessions in the first half. It is really hard for me to complain about any of that.

On their first possession of the 3rd quarter after forcing us to punt they did this:

1-10-ATL 39 (12:53) 33-M.Turner left tackle to ATL 42 for 3 yards (90-B.Raji). PENALTY on GB-93-E.Walden, Illegal Use of Hands, 5 yards, enforced at ATL 42.
1-10-ATL 47 (12:48) 33-M.Turner left end to GB 48 for 5 yards (21-C.Woodson; 26-C.Peprah).
2-5-GB 48 (12:13) 33-M.Turner left guard to GB 46 for 2 yards (90-B.Raji; 98-C.Wilson).
3-3-GB 46 (11:30) 2-M.Ryan pass short right to 84-R.White to GB 38 for 8 yards (38-T.Williams) [52-C.Matthews].
1-10-GB 38 (10:44) 44-J.Snelling left guard to GB 36 for 2 yards (26-C.Peprah).
2-8-GB 36 (10:00) 2-M.Ryan pass short left to 88-T.Gonzalez to GB 30 for 6 yards (79-R.Pickett).
3-2-GB 30 (9:20) 44-J.Snelling up the middle to GB 29 for 1 yard (55-D.Bishop). PENALTY on ATL-77-T.Clabo, Illegal Use of Hands, 10 yards, enforced at GB 30 - No Play.
3-12-GB 40 (8:55) (Shotgun) 2-M.Ryan pass incomplete short right to 22-J.Rodgers.
4-12-GB 40 (8:49) 5-M.Bosher punts 24 yards to GB 16, Center-82-J.Zelenka, fair catch by 18-R.Cobb.

They seemed willing to run here, but got **** by the penalty on 3rd and 2.