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Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread

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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1421 » by YogiStewart » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:49 pm

C_Money wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:yep.
but the players will miss another paycheque or 2.

of course, they're at the point where they have more to lose than to gain by striking. their lost salaries will soon be equal to (and then greater than) the difference in BRI.


Its not about that though. Its about who has the biggest d*ck in the room.


except you're dealing with c*ckslingers who also are really, really bad with money.

players will buckle. season's not lost. give them another 1-2 paycheques to lose.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1422 » by JC16 » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:58 pm

congrats player...u went down..0.5%. LOL i honestly think 49-51% is really fair. We are living in a recession..if things pick back up to projected then 51% is fine. but if we are all suffering from recession, so should the players. zzzzz
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1423 » by S.W.A.N » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:12 am

J-Roc wrote:
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Certain franchises are always going to have an inherent advantage when it come to being a desirable destination and if wages are equal are going to get to pick the cream of the crop.



NFL has a system in place where player movement is very rare. Franchise tag allows teams to play hard ball with star players.

NFL is also not nearly the star oriented league that the NBA is. One player changing teams has (with the possible exception of elite quarterbacks) little impact compared to the NBA where 1 player can be the difference between 1st place and last place.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1424 » by 5DOM » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:14 am

Derek Fisher: "I want to make it clear: You guys were lied to earlier." "They're interested in telling you one-sided stories that are not true."


oh my
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1425 » by Cyrus » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:51 am

Looks like we gonna be in a long one:

"WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
For all the momentum that had taken shape, the trust in these labor talks has been obliterated. Never been worse between the sides. Never."


I'm guessing Jan Start of the season, like that 50 game schedule, with a potential for a whole season cancel, that's the only way the NBA will get what they want, is for players to lose a whole year salary, and the potential of more.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1426 » by BLKMASS » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:51 am

Nially wrote:Question about the 82 game thing...

Do they need to "compress" the schedule? What is so wrong with just extending the season an extra couple months into the summer?


A lot of the NBA arenas, Staples Center in particular , are all booked in the summer.
Also what would that do for next season? You'd shorten the players vacation significantly.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1427 » by JC16 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:53 am

whatever lose em all. I really feel sorry for those worker in the stadium. All the best to them.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1428 » by S.W.A.N » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:02 am

Its too bad that it not going to happen today.


If you look at it players have moved a lot and even admitted they could do 50/50 with right system.

so close yet so far
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1429 » by BLKMASS » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:06 am

Owners don't seem to be interested in a season, players union on the other hand has been trying desperately to end the lockout.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1430 » by J-Roc » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:10 am

I was thinking today how bball might be back soon, and I can't say I was all that excited. Another bad Raptor season, no JVal, Bargs chucking away, a chance for the Heat to win it all. If it comes back, fine, but I have no problem with a long break that leaves us with a different system than we have now.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1431 » by Ponchos » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:11 am

Hey KG wasn't there, how come they didn't get a deal done? Which scary player are they going to blame for the talks breaking down now?
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1432 » by Ponchos » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:13 am

J-Roc wrote:I was thinking today how bball might be back soon, and I can't say I was all that excited. Another bad Raptor season, no JVal, Bargs chucking away, a chance for the Heat to win it all. If it comes back, fine, but I have no problem with a long break that leaves us with a different system than we have now.


A system that gives the Raptors 5 first round draft picks a year?

If you're pinning your hopes on a system that will somehow favor the Raptors, prepare to be disappointed.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1433 » by J-Roc » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:17 am

Ponchos wrote:
J-Roc wrote:I was thinking today how bball might be back soon, and I can't say I was all that excited. Another bad Raptor season, no JVal, Bargs chucking away, a chance for the Heat to win it all. If it comes back, fine, but I have no problem with a long break that leaves us with a different system than we have now.


A system that gives the Raptors 5 first round draft picks a year?

If you're pinning your hopes on a system that will somehow favor the Raptors, prepare to be disappointed.


Favour is impossible. But something that evens out the field a bit better. I don't know what it would be, but let's try something else because sitting around hoping to tank for a huge pick isn't working.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1434 » by Ponchos » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:31 am

J-Roc wrote:Favour is impossible. But something that evens out the field a bit better. I don't know what it would be, but let's try something else because sitting around hoping to tank for a huge pick isn't working.


Patience grasshopper. We've only tanked 1 year. The rest of the years we were merely mediocre.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1435 » by NH » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:36 am

Don't understand what the owners are trying to pull here.. get the players to agree to 50/50 first before talk about the system. It really should be a package where both sides give. 50/50 but keep the same luxury tax system... seems like the owners are really trying to bully here.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1436 » by DreamTeam09 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:34 am

Owners wants to make it harder for teams to go into the luxury tax and stay in the luxury tax. Thats one way of evening things out which would bring a little more parity. A bonus going to the best rookies makes sense too and is more than fair.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1437 » by OAKLEY_2 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:34 am

At the end of the day like all labour negotiations it all comes down to piece of the pie for labour and the piece for the investors. 50/50 should get it done with enhancements for players. For many owners they would be happy to have a roster of KG, Wade and Kobe and then d-leaguers on minimum deals. That is where the sport is completely F'd. The league and players have been in cahoots to overhype the so-called super stars and pay them to be poster children for marketing. A team like OKC is the model franchise for a healthy league but we have quick fixers all over the place who want hardware at any cost including parity and league credibility. The league sucks this up because the networks love it. No deal will help this crowd unless they make major structural changes to the business model that begins to resemble other leagues. The superstars and the Commissioner make obscene gobs of money, rosters are way too small to account for injury, tax teams are often the elite teams and hail mary prospects get guaranteed money. Yet where is this all hinged? It is stuck on who gets what cut. This league is a smoke and mirrors joke and all this posturing will not fix the real structural problems.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1438 » by J-Roc » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:01 am

NH wrote:Don't understand what the owners are trying to pull here.. get the players to agree to 50/50 first before talk about the system. It really should be a package where both sides give. 50/50 but keep the same luxury tax system... seems like the owners are really trying to bully here.


Yeah someone on the players' side called it....the owners are trying to run the table. Basically the Owners want to come out on top like the NHL did. The longtime hardline NHLPA head, Bob Goodenow, had to step down after the deal the players accepted. It was that bad a beating.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1439 » by J-Roc » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:03 am

S.W.A.N wrote:
J-Roc wrote:
S.W.A.N wrote:
Certain franchises are always going to have an inherent advantage when it come to being a desirable destination and if wages are equal are going to get to pick the cream of the crop.



NFL has a system in place where player movement is very rare. Franchise tag allows teams to play hard ball with star players.

NFL is also not nearly the star oriented league that the NBA is. One player changing teams has (with the possible exception of elite quarterbacks) little impact compared to the NBA where 1 player can be the difference between 1st place and last place.


A team with a frontline QB is practically a contender. Franchise tag or whatever, the NFL system works all around.
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Re: Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread 

Post#1440 » by Rhettmatic » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:04 am

Ken Berger, previously optimistic and even-handed, tore the owners a new one in his new column:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/1577 ... -who-cares

I'm mad at everybody right now, but do you know who I'm angrier at? The owners. Why? Because I believe Billy Hunter and Derek Fisher when they say it was an ultimatum from the owners that shattered these talks Thursday night. Let me explain why.

After 24½ hours of seemingly productive mediation over two days, strange things happened Thursday. The heavy lifting that had been progressing over the previous two days was over the system issues upon which a turning point in the talks seemingly hinged. This is what we had been told when all hell broke loose on 63rd Street outside the Lowell Hotel on Oct. 10 -- that it wasn't about the money anymore, it was about the system.

And you know what it's about in sports when they tell you it's not about the money? You guessed it: It's about the money.

In fact, I had told you the next day not to fall for the banana in the tailpipe -- that this mumbo-jumbo about the system was just something to distract everyone for a while until the discussions inevitably came back to the split of BRI. And sure enough, back-schmack they went on Thursday, with league negotiators drawing a line in the sand at a 50-50 split of BRI and trying to sell it as a new proposal.

...

But Fisher and Hunter said it was the owners who presented the ultimatum: 50-50, take it or leave it. Those words came out of Chris Paul's mouth during the players' news conference, and Hunter said they essentially came out of Holt's mouth -- and while I wasn't in the room to prove it, the message was clear.

There are hard-liners among the owners who refuse to give the players a dime more than 50 percent, and some harder-liners who were reluctant to go even that far. But you know what? There are hard-liners on the union side, too -- agents and super agents and clusters of seven agents who didn't want to go a dime below 53 percent. I know of at least one powerful agent who never thought the players should have offered anything below 57 percent -- the share they received under the previous six-year deal.

The difference? Fisher and Hunter have successfully excluded those hard-liners from the bargaining process, all the way up to Thursday, when sources told CBSSports.com that some agents were still working the phones and telling their clients to "hold firm" and reject any deal below 53 percent. Hunter and Fisher ignored them and offered to go lower on Thursday -- to 52.5 percent if revenues came in as projected and as low as 50 percent if they came in lower.

The league has not only been unable to keep hard-line owners from influencing the negotiations, they couldn't even keep them out of the room Thursday. The new participant was Trail Blazers owner Paul Allen, who came as a messenger from the Board of Governors meetings that concluded earlier in the day, Hunter said.


So essentially the players offered a band going from 50 to 52.5, which is a pretty big compromise. I sure haven't seen the same kind of movement on the owners' side.
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