2012 Jays Starting Rotation Discussion Thread

Post #1 » by **LittleOzzy** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:44 pm

A place to discuss the starting rotation during the offseason.

So, who do you think will be returning? Who should the Jays be looking to add? Will anyone from our minor league system be ready to start at the beginning of the season?

acemann · Post #2 » by **acemann** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:18 pm

despite the horrid pitching performance of the majority of the staff this year... im still confident we can fill pitching needs from within organization. i think the need for a middle of the order bat should be the priority.

Lateral Quicks · Post #3 » by **Lateral Quicks** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:31 pm

Romero, Morrow, and Alvarez are pretty good bets to be in the rotation at this point. Lots of other intriguing high potential guys that should make the battle for the other spots very competitive.

If I had to pick, I'd rather AA focus on fixing the bullpen and adding a bat then picking up a starting pitcher. We have too many good guys in the system who are/will soon be deserving of a spot on the big club, and I wouldn't want any of them blocked by an average veteran.

Relentless88 · Post #4 » by **Relentless88** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:30 am

#1 -
#2 - Romero
#3 - Morrow
#4 -
#5 - Alvarez

Pretty much how I see the rotation right now. We can obviously fill the #4 spot from within. If we want to be competitive, we need to spend (or bring in via trade) on Darvish or Wilson.

rarefind · Post #5 » by **rarefind** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:02 am

I have a hard time believing that cj wilson is a sure fire bet to be able to succeed as a legit #1 starter in the american league east. he has great stuff, but i do believe that he pretty much had a career season in a contract year and may not ever replicate the numbers he put up this year. he will probably command a lot more money than his value over the contract. if we label romero as a #2 starter, cj wilson is no better than that either. no harm in bringing him aboard, but if romero is not an ace, neither is wilson. i think approaching edwin jackson on a short term deal that overpays him a bit may be a better bet than going crazy over cj. i rather have 3/30 for edwin than 5/80-90 for cj at this point anyway, trading for a starter may be another better option.

i always envisioned that if this team was to decide that romero is not the ace that a much sexier name than cj wilson would be obtained. sd is apparently listening to offers for mat latos, they'd want a major league talent, a propsect and pitching prospect. i'd be willing to see what it'd cost, lind, thames (assuming he's valued more than snider) + molina or hutch for starts, aa should be considering this if sd has any interest in lind. the padres line up is indeed a mess, so they might actually put stock in lind turning it around if the rest of the package is pretty sweet.

flatjacket1 · Post #6 » by **flatjacket1** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:32 am

#1 - Romero
If he can repeat last year, he is an ace. Got unlucky with the long ball this year. 6th in the AL in WAR
#2 - Morrow
Needs more ground balls to be successful. Still young (26), shouldn't be given up on. Lead the AL in strikeouts per 9.
#3 - Alvarez
5 strikeouts per walk, which is a small sample size but puts him at 2nd in the AL. Tons of ground balls, needs to strikeout more to be successful. 21 years old.
#4 - Cecil
Too many people have given up on him. Was 24 at the beginning of last year and showed inconsistency. Similar performance as Morrow.
#5 - Up for grabs in spring training
I personally see Nestor Molina as the favorite but I don't know, anything is possible.

Just my opinion on the pitchers, don't hate too much

dballislife · Post #7 » by **dballislife** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:43 am

1. legit 1-2 starter via trade or fa
2. romero
3. morrow
4. cecil
5. alverez

6. drabek
7. mcgowen

LBJSeizedMyID · Post #8 » by **LBJSeizedMyID** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:43 pm

If you're not going to get the "CC Sabathia" or proven ace, Romero is considered the #1 starter in my mind. CJ Wilson is on the same tier as Romero right now.

baulderdash77 · Post #9 » by **baulderdash77** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:43 pm

1. Romero
2. [CJ Wilson, Yu Darvish, Edwin Jackson]
3. Morrow
4. Alvarez
5. Cecil*

I have to give the #5 spot to Cecil but there's a lot of organizational pressure behind him and I think eventually he's going to be a lefty specialist in the bullpen.

That's a good enough rotation to be in the playoff chase.

rtcaino · Post #10 » by **rtcaino** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:38 pm

1. Romero
2. Darvish
3. Morrow
4. Alvarez
5. Stop Gap/Hutchinson

Post #11 » by **YogiStewart** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:02 pm

but what about Litsch?!?!

silverhill27 · Post #12 » by **silverhill27** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:39 pm

If Romero can consistently put up his second half numbers, he's an ace.

1. Romero
2. ??? (Darvish or trade)
3. Morrow (last chance for him next year or he's traded/bullpened)
4. Alvarez (ace potential if he develops third pitch)
5. Experiment slot (McGowan/Cecil/Drabek) most likely McGowan at first since he's out of options and Cecil to the bullpen.

Injury call-ups - Jenkins, McGuire, Hutchison, Molina, Mills (just kidding...)

Wally West · Post #13 » by **Wally West** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:29 pm

For some reason, I see some sort trade going down with the Oakland Athletics whether it be for some starting pitching help or relief pitching help. They're going to have 8 guys competing next year for 5 spots in their rotation (Gio Gonzalez, Cahill, Harden, Brandon McCarthy, Moscoso, Brett Anderson, Dallas Braden and Tyson Ross) . They also have a bevy of relief pitching in Bailey, Balfour, Fuentes, just to name a few. Could see us inquiring about Gonzalez, Cahill and Bailey this offseason and who knows if both teams will send each other trade proposals.

number15 · Post #14 » by **number15** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:18 pm

well, im gonna wait and see what AA does then make my mind.

Basically If AA goes a #1 starter, or even a very solid #2 then, we are competing. I want a rotation like this: Romero/new player/new player/Morrow/Alverez

But if AA doesn't go after a top starter, then we experiment for 1 more season. In that case I wanna see this: Romero/Morrow/Alverez... and 2 spots for grabs[/u].

Avenger · Post #15 » by **Avenger** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:37 pm

blackflash234 wrote:For some reason, I see some sort trade going down with the Oakland Athletics whether it be for some starting pitching help or relief pitching help. They're going to have 8 guys competing next year for 5 spots in their rotation (Gio Gonzalez, Cahill, Harden, Brandon McCarthy, Moscoso, Brett Anderson, Dallas Braden and Tyson Ross) . They also have a bevy of relief pitching in Bailey, Balfour, Fuentes, just to name a few. Could see us inquiring about Gonzalez, Cahill and Bailey this offseason and who knows if both teams will send each other trade proposals.

Travis Snider and Anthony Gose for Brandon McCarthy, the American League FIP leader. Unfortunately Beane probably laughs at that if he has realized how good McCarthy is. I think his turnaround and reinvention is probably more impressive than Jose Bautista
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... -part-one/
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... -part-two/

Weems · Post #16 » by **Weems** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:17 pm

Cool article. I wouldn't know how to evaluate McCarthy, but people seem confident in him I guess? I'm not so certain that he's suddenly great. Definitely improved and very solid, but not too much more than sub 4 ERA good.

Dunno how to evaluate Gose or Snider either. But if we want McCarthy and all else fails, we could sweeten the deal with a reclamation project 1B like Cooper. They love those.

HangTime · Post #17 » by **HangTime** » Sat Nov 5, 2011 8:10 pm

Wonder what it would take to get Lincecum and Sandoval(to play 1B):

Snider
Drabek
Lind (might do better in a weaker division)
2 Prospect

Sign Darvish

Rotation
Lincecum
Romero
Darvish
Morrow
Alvarez

Bullpen
McGowan
Jansen
Carreno
Villanueva
Litsch
Perez
Cecil

Lineup
SS - Escobar - r
CF - Rasmus - l
RF - Bautista - r
DH/1B - FA signing (Fielder)
3B - Lawrie - r
C. - Arencibia - r
2B - Johnson - l
1B/DH - Sandoval - s
LF - Thames - l

Bench
Encarnacion
Molina
Davis
McCoy

NeverGoingToWin · Post #18 » by **NeverGoingToWin** » Sat Nov 5, 2011 8:12 pm

It would never happen so it is not even worth thinking about it.

g_greg · Post #19 » by **g_greg** » Sat Nov 5, 2011 9:12 pm

HangTime wrote:Wonder what it would take to get Lincecum and Sandoval(to play 1B):

Snider
Drabek
Lind (might do better in a weaker division)
2 Prospect

Sign Darvish

Rotation
Lincecum
Romero
Darvish
Morrow
Alvarez

Bullpen
McGowan
Jansen
Carreno
Villanueva
Litsch
Perez
Cecil

Lineup
SS - Escobar - r
CF - Rasmus - l
RF - Bautista - r
DH/1B - FA signing (Fielder)
3B - Lawrie - r
C. - Arencibia - r
2B - Johnson - l
1B/DH - Sandoval - s
LF - Thames - l

Bench
Encarnacion
Molina
Davis
McCoy

Keep dreaming :-?

They'd ask for Bautista in exchange for Lincecum so that trade is not happening.

Relentless88 · Post #20 » by **Relentless88** » Sat Nov 5, 2011 11:12 pm

HangTime wrote:Wonder what it would take to get Lincecum and Sandoval(to play 1B):

Snider
Drabek
Lind (might do better in a weaker division)
2 Prospect

Sign Darvish

Rotation
Lincecum
Romero
Darvish
Morrow
Alvarez

Bullpen
McGowan
Jansen
Carreno
Villanueva
Litsch
Perez
Cecil

Lineup
SS - Escobar - r
CF - Rasmus - l
RF - Bautista - r
DH/1B - FA signing (Fielder)
3B - Lawrie - r
C. - Arencibia - r
2B - Johnson - l
1B/DH - Sandoval - s
LF - Thames - l

Bench
Encarnacion
Molina
Davis
McCoy

Sorry to break your dreams...but the only thing likely in that scenario is Darvish. AA and Beeston have said they don't believe in 7+ year deals, which means Fielder/Pujols are likely out of the picture.

Also, Lincecum will return A LOT more than that package. And nobody in baseball wants Lind. I'm not sure why some people on this board still think he's a good hitter, or has good value. A first baseman with a .295 OBP isn't worth much...