Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread II

[Cyrus]

its good to see stern in the back of the players news conf. and they sharing a laugh, that's gotta be a good sign:

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
David Stern standing in back of union's news conference, trading laughs with Hunter at podium. That's a first.

[S.W.A.N]

its good to see stern in the back of the players news conf. and they sharing a laugh, that's gotta be a good sign:

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
David Stern standing in back of union's news conference, trading laughs with Hunter at podium. That's a first.

The whole vibe of the press conference was positive... I think tomorrow is the day.

[NH]

its good to see stern in the back of the players news conf. and they sharing a laugh, that's gotta be a good sign:

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
David Stern standing in back of union's news conference, trading laughs with Hunter at podium. That's a first.

The whole vibe of the press conference was positive... I think tomorrow is the day.

Lets hope so, I miss my basketball. Keep all those negative people out of the meeting (looking at KG, Dan Gilbert etc). Only people who are serious and rationale enough to negotiate.

[baulderdash77]

It sure sounds like we're going to make a deal tomorrow or at least this weekend.

I haven't heard any of the details leaked on what's being discussed though.

[TheDoctor]

Wow. I'm surprised it looks like its going to happen this early. I thought it was either pre-cancellation of games, or Christmas or so when the pain set in and the players would capitulate. Though less so if they're able to squeeze in the full 82 game season. Makes me feel a bit better for both sides this way.

[Cool-Hand-Luke]

[floppymoose]

NBA, players on cusp of agreement

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... lks_102711

The NBA and Players Association have moved to the cusp of ending the four-month old lockout, and there’s strong belief on both sides that a Friday bargaining session could culminate with the framework of an agreement to preserve most, if not all, of a full season.

“It’s moved to a very good place,” one source briefed on Thursday’s 7½-hour bargaining session told Yahoo! Sports. “There’s a strong expectation [within the negotiations] that hands will shake [Friday].”

Also, this tidbit:

The league can encourage players to stay in school longer if players don’t have to rush to the NBA to get the clock started on significant pay raises and free agency. The NBA wants American players to be at least 20 years old and two years removed from high school to be eligible for the draft. Under the previous labor agreement, the rule was 19 years old and one year removed from high school.

[tecumseh18]

Also, this tidbit:

The league can encourage players to stay in school longer if players don’t have to rush to the NBA to get the clock started on significant pay raises and free agency. The NBA wants American players to be at least 20 years old and two years removed from high school to be eligible for the draft. Under the previous labor agreement, the rule was 19 years old and one year removed from high school.

Of course, a key term of any deal is the "Screw the Raptors" clause. Any chance this change would get postponed until 2013? Likely not, given that the 2005 CBA rule change came into effect for the 2006 draft, as we all remember.

[floppymoose]

It's an owners proposal. The union has not yet agreed to it. So it may not happen, we'll see.

[S.W.A.N]

Also, this tidbit:

The league can encourage players to stay in school longer if players don’t have to rush to the NBA to get the clock started on significant pay raises and free agency. The NBA wants American players to be at least 20 years old and two years removed from high school to be eligible for the draft. Under the previous labor agreement, the rule was 19 years old and one year removed from high school.

Of course, a key term of any deal is the "Screw the Raptors" clause. Any chance this change would get postponed until 2013? Likely not, given that the 2005 CBA rule change came into effect for the 2006 draft, as we all remember.

I doubt this comes to pass. Players want 18 owners want 20, neither party thinks enough of this issue to make it a deal breaker so it stays where it is.

I wouldn't mind seeing something creative done here though, I wonder if it would be possible to make it so players could enter draft, get drafted and have there 'draft slot' secured then return to school for a year. During that year they can sign contract at any time (so nba team is on the hook if an injury occurs during college)

Not sure ncaa would go for it, but for young players the playing time and coaching they recieve in school along with more time to physically develop would be looked apon more favourably if the kids know they got a nba contract in place waiting for them

[tecumseh18]

I wouldn't mind seeing something creative done here though, I wonder if it would be possible to make it so players could enter draft, get drafted and have there 'draft slot' secured then return to school for a year.

So what's in it for the NBA? A big reason owners are pushing for the change is that 19 year old "one and doners" can be such a crap shoot. It's terrible to invest a high lottery pick on a complete bust. Let alone having to pay a player who's not physically ready for the NBA.

I think this is something the owners REALLY want, and wouldn't be considered a deal-killer for the players side. So goodbye, Andre Drummond.

[edited to add]OTOH, the NCAA can be quite physical. For the elite players, this presents quite the downside risk. One of the games I saw Blake Griffin play at OU, he had to leave the game with a concussion.

[C_Money]

That would just cross the line. We already missed out on a superstar in '06 because they stopped letting high school players in. They can't do that twice.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I wouldn't mind seeing something creative done here though, I wonder if it would be possible to make it so players could enter draft, get drafted and have there 'draft slot' secured then return to school for a year.

So what's in it for the NBA? A big reason owners are pushing for the change is that 19 year old "one and doners" can be such a crap shoot. It's terrible to invest a high lottery pick on a complete bust. Let alone having to pay a player who's not physically ready for the NBA.

I think this is something the owners REALLY want, and wouldn't be considered a deal-killer for the players side. So goodbye, Andre Drummond.

[edited to add]OTOH, the NCAA can be quite physical. For the elite players, this presents quite the downside risk. One of the games I saw Blake Griffin play at OU, he had to leave the game with a concussion.

The big reason the players fight it is it gives them one less year of earning potential, which is incredibly important. They made a huge deal out of the last age restriction, so I doubt they'll except another so easily after giving the owners over a billion dollars.

The NBA can do more than just raise the age limit to enhance drafting efficiency. Scouts should be allowed to attend high school games, it happens in every other sport. I also think they could place more rules on pre-draft workouts, like draft eligible players should NOT be allowed to refuse requests to workout. Or there should just be centralized workouts, like an extended combine. Take the agent games out of the process, because they do more harm than good. Right now the draft process reeks of recruiting. I've also thought that there should be anti-tanking measures in place, like if you miss the playoffs four years in a row you don't get a first rounder, or something like that.

[NH]

I think a good trade off is move the age limit to 20, but increase the amounts for rookie salaries. Yes, does seem like another loss for tankers like us though for this season. At least Harrison Barnes can still come out

[tecumseh18]

They made a huge deal out of the last age restriction, so I doubt they'll except another so easily after giving the owners over a billion dollars.

Given the number of trade-offs that will have a direct bearing on what the players will be earning, I don't think they'll be that careful to protect an abstraction such as the right of today's 18-year-olds (who aren't represented at the negotiating table) to earn millions next year. On the contrary, it would give many current union members who are on the career bubble one more year to cash in before a rookie pushes them aside.

I wonder if there's been any attempt to address the potential problem of European teams scooping up American players who don't want to wait around to be drafted, or even if they're 20 don't want to be bound by the NBA rookie scale. This seemed more of an issue a few years ago, but maybe not now with all the economic upheaval in Europe. Ty Lawson's tweets about racism won't make Europe more attractive, either.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I wonder if there's been any attempt to address the potential problem of European teams scooping up American players who don't want to wait around to be drafted, or even if they're 20 don't want to be bound by the NBA rookie scale. This seemed more of an issue a few years ago, but maybe not now with all the economic upheaval in Europe. Ty Lawson's tweets about racism won't make Europe more attractive, either.

There's not really anything they can do about it. Right now the culture shock is too much for teenagers to handle, but with a two year rule (and they've also recently bumped academic requirements in the NCAA) it might make the argument more convincing.

[Basketball_Jones]

I'm just waiting for the report of KG storming the room and shouting "Yo man, **** this! United we stand man wtf!?" and killing any hopes of an agreement being reached.

[bboyskinnylegs]

Another age limit change would really ruin things for us. We'd be stuck hoping for one of Barnes, Perry/Terrence Jones, or Sullinger

[HangTime]

Age limit should be set at 19 or be 1 year removed from HS.

Once every team gets there own d-leauge team(I hope it happens) the age minimum should be 18 years old, out of HS.

any team that drafts a HS player will have to keep him in the D-Leauge for the entire, up coming year, and their rookie contract will be 5 years long.

year 1: 1.25 - 1.5 x NBA minimum (D-Leauge)
year 2: Rookie Scale from previous season
year 3: 20-25% increase (team option)
year 4: 25-30% increase (team option)
year 5: 30-35% increase (team option)

ALL undrafted players can opt for NCAA (if they did not sign with an agent before the draft).

ALL undrafted players, with an agent can opt for NCAA (but must sit out half of the games)

ALL undrafted players should be able to re-enter the draft (1 time chance), but they must tell the NBA 1 week after the current NBA draft. This way no one can sign them.

[Rhettmatic]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... use-on-way

Sources say that there’s a determined push led by San Antonio Spurs owner Peter Holt to allow teams to have at least two years to decide whether or not to amnesty one player, with multiple sources telling ESPN.com this week that they believe the concept -- with restrictions that are still being haggled over -- has indeed won sufficient support to be included in the new labor deal.

Six years ago, teams had only two weeks to decide whether to use the amnesty clause or lose it forever. Now? There is a growing likelihood that teams will be able to “save” their amnesty clause through next season, or perhaps beyond.