Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread II

Post #461 » by **Cyrus** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:56 pm

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Source says that two sides also "couldn't agree on final pieces of system." No new sessions scheduled. Kaboom.

KG1585 · Post #462 » by **KG1585** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:04 pm

Well this sucks.

bboyskinnylegs · Post #463 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:04 pm

WojYahooNBA wrote:
The two sides had come too far to just walk away from table for long. Would be shocked if they don't regroup and get right back to work.

Ponchos · Post #464 » by **Ponchos** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:08 pm

I'm not too worried.

Post #465 » by **ranger001** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:08 pm

I'd rather they come back after half a season than suffer through another tanking season.

baulderdash77 · Post #466 » by **baulderdash77** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:11 pm

I'm kinda with you on that Ranger. Since we're going to be a dedicated tanking team this year I'm at bit of a "what's the point" stage.

I do want to see some basketball this year though.

Post #467 » by **floppymoose** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:12 pm

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/s ... index.html

What separates the NBA from a different basketball league? Well, it's the players. The basketball's' the same, the court's the same, it's the players who really are the distinguishing feature. That's not to say that the league doesn't have value. But the defining characteristic and the scarce resource, if you think about it from an economic point of view, is the talent. It's not unlike Hollywood, the music business or any of the other ones where the thing that distinguishes one person from another is the talent.

Ponchos · Post #468 » by **Ponchos** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:18 pm

Cyrus wrote:I think NBA say that NFL players give up to 40% their "BRI" the "FRI"...and how they don't have guarentee contracgts and such,...

Not quite sure what you're saying here, but if you're comparing the NBA deal to the deal the NFL signed then this is misleading.

The NFL players are guaranteed at least 47% of All Revenue (very different than BRI. For example BRI was 3.8ish billion this year, yet all revenue for the NBA was over 4 billion).

The NFL players agreed to a complex system that gives them percentages of different aspects of revenue (55% of the national media deals, 40% of local club revenue etc.) It is very possible that the players will earn well over 50% of total revenues by the end of the deal.

Looking at the NHL, the players are at a sliding scale of revenues from 53%-57%.

If the NBAPA agrees to 50-52% it will probably be the most favorable deal in major pro sports for the owners.

bboyskinnylegs · Post #469 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:22 pm

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Fisher: "Today wasn't the day to try and close this out...."
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Fisher: "We're not when we will meet again...Hopeful we can close this out..."
1 minute ago

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Fisher: "ended talks for today, for now..." Players dropped BRI to 52.5.
3 minutes ago

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Hunter and Fisher about to talk...

dagger · Post #470 » by **dagger** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:22 pm

Talks have broken off again.

And for all the draftniks, which is most of us, the raising of the age limit to 20 remains on the table.

bboyskinnylegs · Post #471 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:24 pm

ranger001 wrote:I'd rather they come back after half a season than suffer through another tanking season.

I'm worried about suffering through a tanking season only to see a new age limit implemented under a new CBA. The benefits of tanking are greatly diminished if we're stuck hoping for Barnes at the top, with Perry Jones, Terrence Jones, Sullinger, Jeremy Lamb, and Thomas Robinson (who only today suffered an injury I believe) as the only other real options. Taking guys like Drummond/Davis/Miller/Gilchrist/Kabongo/Wroten/Rivers/Teague/Beal/A.Thomas out of the mix will really impact the quality and depth of this draft.

bboyskinnylegs · Post #472 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:26 pm

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Fisher says union doesn't want to lose taxpaying teams as options for players with exceptions. That remains big issue.

baulderdash77 · Post #473 » by **baulderdash77** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:26 pm

Raising the draft age is the one thing that's going to really really hurt us. If you look at today's DX mock draft of the top 10 picks 5 of them are freshmen that wouldn't come out. That's a huge hollowing out of a very strong draft into a weak draft.

freshest1 · Post #474 » by **freshest1** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:27 pm

floppymoose wrote:http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/steve_aschburner/10/27/lockout-q-and-a-kevin-murphy/index.html

What separates the NBA from a different basketball league? Well, it's the players. The basketball's' the same, the court's the same, it's the players who really are the distinguishing feature. That's not to say that the league doesn't have value. But the defining characteristic and the scarce resource, if you think about it from an economic point of view, is the talent. It's not unlike Hollywood, the music business or any of the other ones where the thing that distinguishes one person from another is the talent.

Well true the players are the talent putting butts in the seats; however, no league in the world, other than the NBA, has the capability to hand out dollars to the players like the NBA. I also firmly believe a player league would fall wholeheartedly based on their spending habits, egos, and greed. Continuing with the Hollywood analogy, producers risk an adsorbent amount of money on a high risk/ high return concept. If the returns aren't promising or high enough they (the owners) have little choice but to dig their collective heels in. My guess is that the players will cave and have to come down to at-least 51% to get a deal down.

Post #475 » by **ranger001** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:27 pm

Ponchos wrote:Looking at the NHL, the players are at a sliding scale of revenues from 53%-57%.

If the NBAPA agrees to 50-52% it will probably be the most favorable deal in major pro sports for the owners.

You can't compare the percentages directly in the NFL, NHL, NBA. Costs are different, total revenue is different, etc.

For instance if you have a salary of $50,000 and had to pay 50% in tax you'd be in a different position than making $500,000 and had to pay 50% in tax.

Post #476 » by **floppymoose** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:30 pm

freshest1 wrote:Well true the players are the talent putting butts in the seats; however, no league in the world, other than the NBA, has the capability to hand out dollars to the players like the NBA.

I'm lovin' the unintended irony. The NBA can hand out those dollars *because* they have the most talented players.

Ponchos · Post #477 » by **Ponchos** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:30 pm

ranger001 wrote:
Ponchos wrote:Looking at the NHL, the players are at a sliding scale of revenues from 53%-57%.

If the NBAPA agrees to 50-52% it will probably be the most favorable deal in major pro sports for the owners.

You can't compare the percentages directly in the NFL, NHL, NBA. Costs are different, total revenue is different, etc.

For instance if you have a salary of $50,000 and had to pay 50% in tax you'd be in a different position than making $500,000 and had to pay 50% in tax.

Actually, you can compare them. I'm aware that revenue totals are different. I fail to see your argument for why they can't be compared aside from "because 250,000 is different than 25,000".

bboyskinnylegs · Post #478 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:31 pm

so does this mean that the owners want to eliminate the MLE and other exceptions for taxpaying teams?

bboyskinnylegs · Post #479 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:34 pm

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
The NBA will cancel regular season games through November 30th, a league source tells Y! Sports.

Post #480 » by **ranger001** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:34 pm

Ponchos wrote:
ranger001 wrote:
Ponchos wrote:Looking at the NHL, the players are at a sliding scale of revenues from 53%-57%.

If the NBAPA agrees to 50-52% it will probably be the most favorable deal in major pro sports for the owners.

You can't compare the percentages directly in the NFL, NHL, NBA. Costs are different, total revenue is different, etc.

For instance if you have a salary of $50,000 and had to pay 50% in tax you'd be in a different position than making $500,000 and had to pay 50% in tax.

Actually, you can compare them. I'm aware that revenue totals are different. I fail to see your argument for why they can't be compared aside from "because 250,000 is different than 25,000".

Suppose NFL stadiums where horrendously expensive to maintain compared to NBA stadiums. Then if revenues were similar 52% in the NFL wouldn't be the same as 52% in the NBA. In that case NFL owners would want a percentage that reflects their costs.