2011-12 Toronto Raptors Trade Ideas Thread Pt II

[eitanr]

What about a simple Iggy for Bargnani straight up?

Now I know I'd rather see the Raps get a pick and expirings for Andrea, but what if the Philly owners want to cut costs and also add a spacer to allow Turner and the youth to properly develop. Let's say that's the only deal on the table. (Toronto would absorb an extra 4 mill per year, but get out of the contract a year earlier than Andrea's).

Could DD work well more off the ball, maybe he could be a Eddie Jones type potentially?

Iggy would allow for Calderon to be more effective as a spacer, and either way the team would need to still sign a stop gap at center (Dalembert)? The Raps would also likely need to add another spacer off the bench...but before assuming all of that...would that deal work well?

[Rapsfan07]

What about a simple Iggy for Bargnani straight up?

Now I know I'd rather see the Raps get a pick and expirings for Andrea, but what if the Philly owners want to cut costs and also add a spacer to allow Turner and the youth to properly develop. Let's say that's the only deal on the table. (Toronto would absorb an extra 4 mill per year, but get out of the contract a year earlier than Andrea's).

Could DD work well more off the ball, maybe he could be a Eddie Jones type potentially?

Iggy would allow for Calderon to be more effective as a spacer, and either way the team would need to still sign a stop gap at center (Dalembert)? The Raps would also likely need to add another spacer off the bench...but before assuming all of that...would that deal work well?

I like Iggy and the deal isn't horrible in that we get a pretty good return on Bargs but I think maybe a third team would have to be involved. Like I don't have a problem sending Bargs to Philly but Iggy would have to be sent somewhere else...maybe the Clippers? But Clips and Philly don't have anything I'm really interested in.

[Live Free]

Hmm..

Raps Trade: A.Bargnani, J.Bayless, Lottery protected 1st
Raps Get: T.Prince (11mil expiring), B.Knight

Det Trades: T.Prince (11mil expiring), B.Knight
Det Gets: A.Bargnani, J.Bayless, Lottery protected 1st

Stuckey/Bayless
Rip/Gordan
Daye/Tmac
Bargnani/Charlie V
Monroe/B.Wallace

[Silk Wilkes]

Hmm..

Raps Trade: A.Bargnani, J.Bayless, Lottery protected 1st
Raps Get: T.Prince (11mil expiring), B.Knight

Det Trades: T.Prince (11mil expiring), B.Knight
Det Gets: A.Bargnani, J.Bayless, Lottery protected 1st

Stuckey/Bayless
Rip/Gordan
Daye/Tmac
Bargnani/Charlie V
Monroe/B.Wallace

Not sure why they would include Knight along with a huge expiring for Bargnani, Bayless and a pick that may not be seen for 2 or 3 years when they're rebuilding now.

[witnessraps]

Hmm..

Raps Trade: A.Bargnani, J.Bayless, Lottery protected 1st
Raps Get: T.Prince (11mil expiring), B.Knight

Det Trades: T.Prince (11mil expiring), B.Knight
Det Gets: A.Bargnani, J.Bayless, Lottery protected 1st

Stuckey/Bayless
Rip/Gordan
Daye/Tmac
Bargnani/Charlie V
Monroe/B.Wallace

Not sure why they would include Knight along with a huge expiring for Bargnani, Bayless and a pick that may not be seen for 2 or 3 years when they're rebuilding now.

Bargnani/Monroe could be worth a shot...

[JamesNaismith]

Personally I wouldn't want to trade any 1st round pick for Knight when I don't think he will be that much (if at all) better then Bayless.

[witnessraps]

Personally I wouldn't want to trade any 1st round pick for Knight when I don't think he will be that much (if at all) better then Bayless.

I'm all for Bayless too and in this scenario perhaps we could flip Knight somewhere else..the pick is lottery protected

[Mr Swagtastic]

Hmm..

Raps Trade: A.Bargnani, J.Bayless, Lottery protected 1st
Raps Get: T.Prince (11mil expiring), B.Knight

Det Trades: T.Prince (11mil expiring), B.Knight
Det Gets: A.Bargnani, J.Bayless, Lottery protected 1st

Stuckey/Bayless
Rip/Gordan
Daye/Tmac
Bargnani/Charlie V
Monroe/B.Wallace

Not sure why they would include Knight along with a huge expiring for Bargnani, Bayless and a pick that may not be seen for 2 or 3 years when they're rebuilding now.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Prince a UFA? his contract did end this season if I recall. Either way Detroit would have to sign him after the draft and he would have to wait to be traded since you can't package him I believe for 30 days. Ben Wallace has also retired from a WT I read and some Piston fans. I don't really see the value for either team more so us, Knight is a major unproven talent who looks more combo guard then pure point and I question his superb value like some Pistons fans were making it out to be when we picked Jonas over him. I still like Bayless over Knight right now 1 v 1 and I feel like our pick has a lot of value in 2013 yes it's lotto protected but still I guess we would have to owe to them some time would we?

Detroit would easily rather hold off on getting Bargs right now as well if they are trading Knight away I heard he's considered a untouchable only 2nd to Monroe

[Narf]

Hey, Wolves fan here. I've seen a lot of Raptors fans offer Calderon in trade scenarios, and I was wondering how attached you guys were to him. I was thinking that a Calderon for Pekovic and Ridnour trade made sense for the Wolves, as he would be helpful for Rubio's development. But I didn't know if a decent Euro C prospect and a good journeyman PG was something you guys would want for your highly paid PG.

[bboyskinnylegs]

Hey, Wolves fan here. I've seen a lot of Raptors fans offer Calderon in trade scenarios, and I was wondering how attached you guys were to him. I was thinking that a Calderon for Pekovic and Ridnour trade made sense for the Wolves, as he would be helpful for Rubio's development. But I didn't know if a decent Euro C prospect and a good journeyman PG was something you guys would want for your highly paid PG.

We're certainly not very attached to Jose, but at the same time bringing in Ridnour and Pekovic doesn't do a whole lot for us either. Pek is 25 now and didn't look particularly good at all last year and is paid about 4.5million per year, and Ridnour's deal stretches beyond next season which has future cap implications for us. If one of Beasley, Randolph, or Flynn (before he got traded) were somehow involved I would have been interested, now it seems kind of pointless especially considering that we have Jonas coming over in a year and can instead just give developmental minutes to Alabi, who is on a minimum contract.

[Narf]

Hey, Wolves fan here. I've seen a lot of Raptors fans offer Calderon in trade scenarios, and I was wondering how attached you guys were to him. I was thinking that a Calderon for Pekovic and Ridnour trade made sense for the Wolves, as he would be helpful for Rubio's development. But I didn't know if a decent Euro C prospect and a good journeyman PG was something you guys would want for your highly paid PG.

We're certainly not very attached to Jose, but at the same time bringing in Ridnour and Pekovic doesn't do a whole lot for us either. Pek is 25 now and didn't look particularly good at all last year and is paid about 4.5million per year, and Ridnour's deal stretches beyond next season which has future cap implications for us. If one of Beasley, Randolph, or Flynn (before he got traded) were somehow involved I would have been interested, now it seems kind of pointless especially considering that we have Jonas coming over in a year and can instead just give developmental minutes to Alabi, who is on a minimum contract.

I disagree with you on Pekovic. In Euroleague, moving picks are legal and you are allowed to be more physical. Pekovic looked bad on defense because he was getting stupid fouls and didn't adjust well to Rambis's terrible system (the worst coach in the NBA). Everyone on the Wolves looked terrible under Rambis, just look at Wolves players like Ramon Sessions numbers before and after playing for Rambis. As a Wolves fan..and I think this carries some weight considering how many crappy coaches we've had....Rambis is probably the worst coach we've ever had.

Outside of the cheap fouls, though, Pekovic was fantastic at setting picks on offense, was very good at going after the pick and roll, and was the best post scorer besides Al Jefferson since the KG era the Wolves have had. He had a .573 TS% as a post scorer, that's really good. Per 36 minutes, Pekovic had 14.6 points, 7.8 rebounds, and 1.4 blocks with high efficiency on offense. Outside of the pick and roll, his defense is suspect but should improve as he adjusts to the NBA (and has a better coach). But a good post scoring 6'11 "enforcer" bench player has a lot of value.

And Ridnour is a good backup PG, and probably between the 25th - 30th best PG in the NBA overall. Compared to most PGs, he plays solid but not spectacular D, shoots well, is an average passer, and is bad at creating his own shot.

But maybe I'm a bit homertastic about my players. Happens to the best of us after all .

[silverhill27]

Hey, Wolves fan here. I've seen a lot of Raptors fans offer Calderon in trade scenarios, and I was wondering how attached you guys were to him. I was thinking that a Calderon for Pekovic and Ridnour trade made sense for the Wolves, as he would be helpful for Rubio's development. But I didn't know if a decent Euro C prospect and a good journeyman PG was something you guys would want for your highly paid PG.

Would you do Calderon and Barbosa for Darko, Webster and Ridnour?

[Narf]

Hey, Wolves fan here. I've seen a lot of Raptors fans offer Calderon in trade scenarios, and I was wondering how attached you guys were to him. I was thinking that a Calderon for Pekovic and Ridnour trade made sense for the Wolves, as he would be helpful for Rubio's development. But I didn't know if a decent Euro C prospect and a good journeyman PG was something you guys would want for your highly paid PG.

Would you do Calderon and Barbosa for Darko, Webster and Ridnour?

I think I like that deal better. Seems to make sense for both teams.

[bboyskinnylegs]

Hey, Wolves fan here. I've seen a lot of Raptors fans offer Calderon in trade scenarios, and I was wondering how attached you guys were to him. I was thinking that a Calderon for Pekovic and Ridnour trade made sense for the Wolves, as he would be helpful for Rubio's development. But I didn't know if a decent Euro C prospect and a good journeyman PG was something you guys would want for your highly paid PG.

Would you do Calderon and Barbosa for Darko, Webster and Ridnour?

I think I like that deal better. Seems to make sense for both teams.

That deal I think I'd do, since it would better address the size/defensive deficiencies we have at C with Darko filling in until Jonas comes over (and then being a decent backup), and give us a bit of 3pt shooting as well with Martell backing up both SG and SF with Kleiza out.

Darko/Amir/Alabi
Bargs/Ed
J.Johnson/Kleiza
DeMar/Webster
Bayless/Ridnour

Then add a 2012 rookie and Jonas the following year. I like it. Ideally I'd want to move Bargs to allow Ed/Amir more opportunity once Jonas comes over, but that's something we have time to sort out.

[Rapsfan07]

It's pretty okay still. I'd explore option for Barbosa first but this isn't a bad deal at all.

[Narf]

Just to give you the negatives on the players...

Darko is a very good defensive role player and a good passing center...but he's pretty bad offensively overall and a bit of a head case. He was generally well behaved in Minnesota but we all worried about him blowing up.

Martel Webster is uber athletic, a good defensive player, and a good 3 point shooter.....and injury prone. Although so is Barbosa.

And Ridnour, actually I don't have bad things to say about Ridnour. He's a very high character guy who's a good backup or a poor starting PG. He won't hurt you, but he won't win many games for you either. I consider him to be between the 25th and 30th best PGs in the NBA, and he's signed to a nice deal for what he brings. He mentored Jennings and was happy to come to Minnesota to mentor Flynn and Rubio, which is why we signed him. I'll actually be a little sad to see him go.

Salary wise I like this deal for the Wolves because it clears their cap in 2 years and I think the Wolves will want Rubio/Malcom Lee to take over at PG then rather than having 1 year left of Ridnour. And reports are that Anthony Randolph added at 20 pounds of muscle over the extended off season, and most Wolves fans want him and Love starting to "build our young core". The Wolves have 15 players on their roster next year already and a glut of Euro players stashed away, so we need to trade quantity for quality somewhere as you can only play 12. So I consider Calderon an overpaid upgrade, but he's a good insurance policy to have if Rubio struggles.

Are there any warts on Calderon? I know he had a bad shooting year this year and is overpaid, but my impression is he's overall a good but not great starting PG who just makes too damn much money.

[S.W.A.N]

Just to give you the negatives on the players...

Darko is a very good defensive role player and a good passing center...but he's pretty bad offensively overall and a bit of a head case. He was generally well behaved in Minnesota but we all worried about him blowing up.

Martel Webster is uber athletic, a good defensive player, and a good 3 point shooter.....and injury prone. Although so is Barbosa.

And Ridnour, actually I don't have bad things to say about Ridnour. He's a very high character guy who's a good backup or a poor starting PG. He won't hurt you, but he won't win many games for you either. I consider him to be between the 25th and 30th best PGs in the NBA, and he's signed to a nice deal for what he brings. He mentored Jennings and was happy to come to Minnesota to mentor Flynn and Rubio, which is why we signed him. I'll actually be a little sad to see him go.

Salary wise I like this deal for the Wolves because it clears their cap in 2 years and I think the Wolves will want Rubio/Malcom Lee to take over at PG then rather than having 1 year left of Ridnour. And reports are that Anthony Randolph added at 20 pounds of muscle over the extended off season, and most Wolves fans want him and Love starting to "build our young core". The Wolves have 15 players on their roster next year already and a glut of Euro players stashed away, so we need to trade quantity for quality somewhere as you can only play 12. So I consider Calderon an overpaid upgrade, but he's a good insurance policy to have if Rubio struggles.

Are there any warts on Calderon? I know he had a bad shooting year this year and is overpaid, but my impression is he's overall a good but not great starting PG who just makes too damn much money.

Good Offensively Bad Defensively

If you put Calderon on a team that can help hide his defensive issues then he will look good. His ability to run the offense with good shooting is top notch.

Cannot be replied apon to 'create' much offense the way an explosive pg like Rose or Wall can. But he gets the ball to people in the right spots without turning the ball over.

Minny has enough players that can create offense, my only question would be if your defense is good enough to hide him.

Honestly I think Calderon would look 10x better on a team like the lakers or Orlando. But if Love and company are legit you might really like what Calderon can do.

[Narf]

Good Offensively Bad Defensively

If you put Calderon on a team that can help hide his defensive issues then he will look good. His ability to run the offense with good shooting is top notch.

Cannot be replied apon to 'create' much offense the way an explosive pg like Rose or Wall can. But he gets the ball to people in the right spots without turning the ball over.

Minny has enough players that can create offense, my only question would be if your defense is good enough to hide him.

Honestly I think Calderon would look 10x better on a team like the lakers or Orlando. But if Love and company are legit you might really like what Calderon can do.

Love is definitely legit on offense. He's an extremely efficient scorer and a beast on the boards. But he's not a great low post player, more of a high post guy who attacks the rim once someone shoots and clears out a space to grab rebounds/put backs/fouls. Pekovic is a great post scorer, but a poor defender. Darko is a great defensive role player but a terrible post scorer. Anthony Randolph was a good defender and a good post scorer, but too light to play center (he played 2/3 of his minutes at center anyway).

To be honest, Webster was our best perimeter defender when healthy. But he had back surgery, which just destroyed his season. Even when you come back from back surgery and can play, everything is off.

Darko was our best post defender/shot blocker, although Randolph was a borderline lockdown defender against most PFs. Randolph was 6'11, 210 lbs and was pushed around a lot at center, which is why we're all excited that he added 20 lbs. 6'11, 230 lbs with elite athleticism and length and good defense looks a lot better than 6'11, 210 lbs.

Wes Johnson was a lost puppy the first 1/2 of the season last year, but has elite athleticism and good length at SG/SF and his defense looked pretty good by the end of the year.

Beasley and Love are the 2 I worry about defensively. Love improved significantly on D, but he's still a ways away. Beasley is an enigma, I'm hoping that going from the worst coach in the NBA to one of the best in Adelman helps Beasley and Love out significantly. I can not stress enough how terrible Rambis's defensive scheme was last year. Every player looked lost and terrible out there, even guys like Ramon Sessions (who was good both in Milwaukee and Cleveland). There is just no doubt it was Rambis and his system. And, honestly, a big reason our defense was terrible last year is we led the NBA in turnovers due to Rambis's terrible offensive system...which led to us being dead last in the NBA in break away points allowed. I love Darko's shot blocking, but running the triangle through Darko is just a bad idea all together. Seriously, how hard is it to run the effing pick and roll instead? Or run the triangle through Love instead of Darko? Take away all those stupid break aways from players not being able to run the triangle properly and the Wolves are only the 10th worst defensive team .

On the plus side, Rubio was DPOY in Europe one year and Rose and friends have made a lot of comments about his defense from international play, so hopefully Rubio mitigates Calderon's defensive deficiencies and Calderon provides the offense when needed.

Plus, it's likely that the Wolves will trade either Beasley or Derrick Williams for an upgrade, probably at SG. Something like Wes Johson + Derrick WIlliams for Eric Gordon would be ideal, although I highly doubt that trade will happen. Maybe something like Beasley + bench player for Gerald Wallace is more likely, with Wallace starting at SF and Derrick Williams backing up both forward positions. That would greatly improve our perimeter defense without sacrificing our offense, and help Charlotte rebuild with a good young prospect in Beasley (who is still only 22 years old). Plus all our bench players are young as well, Ridnour and Darko are our only veterans lol. Heck, even Kevin Love is only 22. (edit: oops, he just turned 23 )

[theSkinny]

I would be very Ok with bringing in Pekovic.. it was his rookie NBA season, I think he is a better player than people are giving him credit for. I also think having Casey as our HC is a potentially ideal situation. We also get out of Calderon's contract.

Now if we could squeeze a future 2nd, I would be overjoyed.

[Narf]

LOL, I just remembered that Gerald Wallace is no longer on Charlotte. Um, so nix that last trade idea.