Where do you see Kyrie Irving's ceiling?

Kaner · Post #1 » by **Kaner** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:24 am

Ok, those that saw my post in the Nash/Kidd highlight thread know where I'm going here (I didn't want to hijack that thread and force my own agenda on it 8-)

and I haven't really seen any Kyrie threads), but how good can a kid like Kyrie become in this league?

I'll start with my own homer-ish opinion. I think he can be really, really good. For one, he possesses all of the tools necessary to run an extremely efficient offense... he has the shooting touch (50/45/90 in limited college games), the first step and crossover, the court vision and passing, and the ability to do it all within the flow of the offense. He does have an underwhelming physical defensive stature (with a 6-4 wingspan, and being rounded up to 6'3" in shoes), however his instincts and hustle on that side of the ball are what I would consider above average.

When you look at the future of the PG's in this league, in guys like Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Wall, Tyreke, Jennings, etc, etc...you can easily point out a weakness in each...most will defend those weaknesses, but they are weaknesses nonetheless. Guys with great work ethics can transcend those weaknesses and achieve greatness, like Rose with his improvement on 3pt FG%. What about a kid that comes into the league with only one glaring weakness- being unadjusted to the pace of the NBA? Any thoughts on his future, or am I being a huge homer?

highness · Post #2 » by **highness** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:27 am

Chris Paul

Kaner · Post #3 » by **Kaner** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:32 am

highness wrote:Chris Paul

Would be nice, because a 6'3 Chris Paul could pretty easily be the best PG in the league.

orangeparka · Post #4 » by **orangeparka** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:34 am

A lesser Deron Williams seems like a good estimate for me.

babyjax13 · Post #5 » by **babyjax13** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:36 am

I don't think he's any Chris Paul, but he'll be very good. Maybe a rich man's Mike Conley? I can see quite a few seasons around 17p 3r 8a....maybe a few better, maybe a few worse. But he'll do it on great efficiency. His speed/ball-handling/passing/shooting aren't his best assets, it's his brain.

JrueTheFuture · Post #6 » by **JrueTheFuture** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:37 am

Poor poor poor mans chris paul.

Kaner · Post #7 » by **Kaner** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:39 am

babyjax13 wrote:I don't think he's any Chris Paul, but he'll be very good. Maybe a rich man's Mike Conley? I can see quite a few seasons around 17p 3r 8a....maybe a few better, maybe a few worse. But he'll do it on great efficiency. His speed/ball-handling/passing/shooting aren't his best assets, it's his brain.

Well, it's the fact that all of those physical assets are well-connected to his brain :lol:

I have a decent brain but I'm no NBA athlete
edit: also, when you watch some of his games you will realize his handles are very, very good too... it's not just his highlights that showcase some casual good handles...he is always very well connected to the ball and his teammates

Elden Payton · Post #8 » by **Elden Payton** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:41 am

I always respect your opinion Kaner but I think that you're being overly optimistic saying that Kyrie only has one weakness.

He only played 11 games in college which doesn't bode well for an 82 game season in the pros, he also has physical limitations & doesn't run a team very well.

Before the draft I was saying that Kemba Walker would be better than Kyrie & as a Charlotte fan I was delighted he was still available when we picked, Kyrie will be solid but could end up being more like Mo Williams though he has a ton of potential & could be the second coming of Chris Paul if he ever improves his facilitation abilities.

I'm not sold that Kyrie will be better than Kemba or Brandon Knight but then again I could be wrong.

I actually like the pick of TT more than Kyrie.

vincecarter4pres · Post #9 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:43 am

I like Irving a lot.

I think by his 4th season he'll become a perennial top 5 point guard.

I'd take him over Wall straight up.

vincecarter4pres · Post #10 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:44 am

Sik Infant wrote:& doesn't run a team very well.

Que?

babyjax13 · Post #11 » by **babyjax13** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:47 am

Kaner wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:I don't think he's any Chris Paul, but he'll be very good. Maybe a rich man's Mike Conley? I can see quite a few seasons around 17p 3r 8a....maybe a few better, maybe a few worse. But he'll do it on great efficiency. His speed/ball-handling/passing/shooting aren't his best assets, it's his brain.

Well, it's the fact that all of those physical assets are well-connected to his brain I have a decent brain but I'm no NBA athlete
edit: also, when you watch some of his games you will realize his handles are very, very good too... it's not just his highlights that showcase some casual good handles...he is always very well connected to the ball and his teammates

I'm just stressing that even though he does have all of the parts that make an NBA quality player, his ability to run a team efficiently will far outweigh those basketball skills.

Elden Payton · Post #12 » by **Elden Payton** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:48 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:I like Irving a lot.

I think by his 4th season he'll become a perennial top 5 point guard.

I'd take him over Wall straight up.

Serious??

JrueTheFuture · Post #13 » by **JrueTheFuture** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:49 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:I like Irving a lot.

I think by his 4th season he'll become a perennial top 5 point guard.

I'd take him over Wall straight up.

I'm a huge Wall hater... but this is a smh moment

Elden Payton · Post #14 » by **Elden Payton** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:50 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:
Sik Infant wrote:& doesn't run a team very well.

Que?

He averaged the same amount of assists as Kemba & Knight who get knocked for their playmaking abilities.

4.3 assists doesn't make you an elite facilitator imo.

Kaner · Post #15 » by **Kaner** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:51 am

Sik Infant wrote:I always respect your opinion Kaner but I think that you're being overly optimistic saying that Kyrie only has one weakness.

He only played 11 games in college which doesn't bode well for an 82 game season in the pros, he also has physical limitations & doesn't run a team very well.

Before the draft I was saying that Kemba Walker would be better than Kyrie & as a Charlotte fan I was delighted he was still available when we picked, Kyrie will be solid but could end up being more like Mo Williams though he has a ton of potential & could be the second coming of Chris Paul if he ever improves his facilitation abilities.

I'm not sold that Kyrie will be better than Kemba or Brandon Knight but then again I could be wrong.

I actually like the pick of TT more than Kyrie.

Understood, but what are you saying his other weaknesses are, as far as the game goes? If it's strictly his injury, than I'm not concerned, because turf-toe isn't something that typically reappears or worsens throughout an athletes career, it's merely a surface condition...yes, it was unfortunate we weren't able to evaluate his performance over a larger amount of time, but as far as his game goes, where else do you see his shortcomings? I just can't see a guy with that high of a b-ball IQ, with such great instincts ever having a similar role (impact-wise) as Mo WIlliams...Mo is a good NBA PG, but he doesn't have the instincts that Kyrie has already shown as far as running an offense goes...yes, I know Mo has kind of done it at an NBA level for a while now, but he doesn't seem to know when to trust his instincts if you've really watched him...the offense usually runs smoother with him playing off the ball.

Kaner · Post #16 » by **Kaner** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:52 am

babyjax13 wrote:
Kaner wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:I don't think he's any Chris Paul, but he'll be very good. Maybe a rich man's Mike Conley? I can see quite a few seasons around 17p 3r 8a....maybe a few better, maybe a few worse. But he'll do it on great efficiency. His speed/ball-handling/passing/shooting aren't his best assets, it's his brain.

Well, it's the fact that all of those physical assets are well-connected to his brain I have a decent brain but I'm no NBA athlete
edit: also, when you watch some of his games you will realize his handles are very, very good too... it's not just his highlights that showcase some casual good handles...he is always very well connected to the ball and his teammates

I'm just stressing that even though he does have all of the parts that make an NBA quality player, his ability to run a team efficiently will far outweigh those basketball skills.

well, if shooting 50/45/90 in his college games is an afterthought to his brain, I am pretty optimistic

Elden Payton · Post #17 » by **Elden Payton** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:01 am

Kaner wrote:
Sik Infant wrote:I always respect your opinion Kaner but I think that you're being overly optimistic saying that Kyrie only has one weakness.

He only played 11 games in college which doesn't bode well for an 82 game season in the pros, he also has physical limitations & doesn't run a team very well.

Before the draft I was saying that Kemba Walker would be better than Kyrie & as a Charlotte fan I was delighted he was still available when we picked, Kyrie will be solid but could end up being more like Mo Williams though he has a ton of potential & could be the second coming of Chris Paul if he ever improves his facilitation abilities.

I'm not sold that Kyrie will be better than Kemba or Brandon Knight but then again I could be wrong.

I actually like the pick of TT more than Kyrie.

Understood, but what are you saying his other weaknesses are, as far as the game goes? If it's strictly his injury, than I'm not concerned, because turf-toe isn't something that typically transgresses and/or worsens throughout an athletes career, it's merely a surface condition...yes, it was unfortunate we weren't able to evaluate his performance over a larger amount of time, but as far as his game goes, where else do you see his shortcomings? I just can't see a guy with that high of a b-ball IQ, with such great instincts ever having a similar role (impact-wise) as Mo WIlliams...Mo is a good NBA PG, but he doesn't have the instincts that Kyrie has already shown as far as running an offense goes...yes, I know Mo has kind of done it at an NBA level for a while now, but he doesn't seem to know when to trust his instincts if you've really watched him...the offense usually runs smoother with him playing off the ball.

I think he will have shortcomings in terms of defensive ability & also offensively against NBA caliber athletes(especially these athletic goliaths playing the one these days), his wingspan scares me as did Steph Curry's but Curry to a degree has proven me wrong.

Kyrie to me is one of those guys who is good at nearly everything but great at nothing(though his college percentages are unreal) also his playmaking to me is vastly overrated.

To explain the Mo comparison I mean that he could be a 17/7 peak type of point with an all-star appearance or two but never break into the elite PG conversation, also like Mo he could have all facets to his game but never seem to put them together in the same game.

To round out the Mo comparison he could be the type that looks great with a good supporting cast but struggles as the main option.

But then again it could be my UNC loving Dookie hating self.

Amish Mafioso · Post #18 » by **Amish Mafioso** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:03 am

In his house.

Elden Payton · Post #19 » by **Elden Payton** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:03 am

For the record I voted B) Mike Conley type though I think he can/will be better than Conley though not in the best PG in the league conversation.

vincecarter4pres · Post #20 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:03 am

Sik Infant wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:
Sik Infant wrote:& doesn't run a team very well.

Que?

He averaged the same amount of assists as Kemba & Knight who get knocked for their playmaking abilities.

4.3 assists doesn't make you an elite facilitator imo.

Great way to come to a conclusion about a player's skills and abilities as a point, raw apg as a college frosh.

Who will his career likely reflect in 4-5 years?