Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread II

[J Dilla]

**** hasn't changed from what I'm reading. Now hard cap, Chris Paul is still rumoured to be headed to NY to join Amare and Carmelo. Superteams will destroy this league.

[malachii]

The NBA should change their marketing angle after this.

Get away from marketing the players specifically & get back to marketing teams & rivalries.

All of this focus on marketing individual players has caused these guys heads to swell & it's not about teams & rivalries anymore (which it should be).

I don't hear that Jose Bautista or Phil Kessel worried about "building their brand", or making plans to team up with multiple allstars on other teams.

You're one of my fav posters, MEDIC, but this is crazy. You must have a better grasp of marketing and the nature of the game of basketball than this.

Is he wrong? I'm not an expert, and would love an international poster to help out here, but it seems to me that "the game of basketball" is not the issue here -> international teams don't market their players so much as the team itself... And that's playing "the game of basketball" as well.

[anj]

Is he wrong? I'm not an expert, and would love an international poster to help out here, but it seems to me that "the game of basketball" is not the issue here -> international teams don't market their players so much as the team itself... And that's playing "the game of basketball" as well.

I don't want to speak on int'l teams' marketing strategies, since I'm no expert either, but I would hazard that international teams don't have the quality players to market as individuals - those quality players are busy playing in the NBA. Honestly, would you watch a Miloš Teodosić when you can go on the internet and watch a LeBron James? I think these teams are aware of their status in a second-tier league and, when marketing their product, play up territorial rivalries even more than any sort of team aspect. But again, I'm not sure how international teams handle marketing.

But my point was more in response to the idea of Phil Kessel (who might see 20 minutes of ice a night - in a game that stretches 12 minutes longer than an NBA game) or Bautista (who plays right field and goes to the plate four times a game) "building their brand." The NBA game puts individual players in an extended spotlight more than any team sport. The NBA is aware of that and has rightly identified it as a strength. Players are exploiting that, too. Unless there are drastic, unwelcome rule changes on playing time, that will always be the case in the game of basketball.

And re: marketing, the NBA doesn't dream up their campaigns, they just sign off on them. Goodby, Silverstein & Partners figures out what draws fans to the NBA, and gears their strategy toward that. In general, fans want Air Jordans, not an Adidas "brotherhood".

[floppymoose]

What Aldridge writes makes sense and reflects what Stern said. He said the next proposal from the NBA will reflect the economics of the current situation (paraphrasing)..

Look, do NOT get in a negotiation with Stern anytime soon. If you are going to think like that he will own you.

I have a standing offer to wager real money with anyone who thinks the union will end up with less than 50% BRI.

[Rapsfan07]

What Aldridge writes makes sense and reflects what Stern said. He said the next proposal from the NBA will reflect the economics of the current situation (paraphrasing)..

Look, do NOT get in a negotiation with Stern anytime soon. If you are going to think like that he will own you.

I have a standing offer to wager real money with anyone who thinks the union will end up with less than 50% BRI.

I don't think he's bluffing though. They day the deal was supposed to be done, he went back to 47% while all along he was talking about his willingness to do a 50%. Now this could all be a mind game to get the players to believe that things will only get worse and make them think that 50% is there best offer but hey what do we know?

[dacrusha]

The NBA should change their marketing angle after this.

Get away from marketing the players specifically & get back to marketing teams & rivalries.

All of this focus on marketing individual players has caused these guys heads to swell & it's not about teams & rivalries anymore (which it should be).

I don't hear that Jose Bautista or Phil Kessel worried about "building their brand", or making plans to team up with multiple allstars on other teams.

There are huge problems in the NBA & it extends well beyond the CBA. There is a massive culture problem overall.

The league is becoming a joke because the inmates have started running the asylum.

No offense, but this would be a terrible idea.

The game is built on individual stars and star rivalries: Russel, Chamberlain, Dr.J, Magic, Bird, Isiah, Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, LBJ are the kind of star power that give the league it's legitimacy and differentiates itself from other leagues.

One thing the league also does well is exploit their rookie/young players to no end: no one gives a damn about the Warriors, Kings or the Clippers, but players like Stephen Curry, Tyreke Evans and Blake Griffin are marketed very skillfully to make their exploits larger than life.

[floppymoose]

Now this could all be a mind game to get the players to believe that things will only get worse and make them think that 50% is there best offer but hey what do we know?

But we are going to find out. It may take an entire season, but eventually they will reach a deal. Then we'll see.

[TheDoctor]

I'm definitely in the "players won't do any better by missing a whole season". I'm thinking one more round of holding out for something better before they (smartly) take it and start playing again. Who knows, there might still be incremental improvements from their position that can still be won. The nuclear option screws them more than anyone. Especially because a hit to the league will drag down BRI for years - which could cost the players far more money in the long term.

[ranger001]

I have a standing offer to wager real money with anyone who thinks the union will end up with less than 50% BRI.

You seem to be pretty sure of this. What kind of odds are you offering?

[I_Like_Dirt]

Why would you need odds, ranger? You seem equally sure that the NBA is losing money and if they say they will lose money at more than 50% then why would you hesitate to back that up?

[ranger001]

I don't make bets usually but like any bettor you'd want the odds to be acceptable. I don't think anything is certain.

The union may well end up with 50% but I would not be surprised at all if they ended up with less. floppy on the other hand seems pretty certain they could get 50% at any time. So I submit that the onus is on him to set the odds.

[floppymoose]

I have a standing offer to wager real money with anyone who thinks the union will end up with less than 50% BRI.

You seem to be pretty sure of this. What kind of odds are you offering?

Even money of course. If no one takes that, then I know the guys telling me the union won't be able to get 50% later are simply all talk and no walk.

[ranger001]

I have a standing offer to wager real money with anyone who thinks the union will end up with less than 50% BRI.

You seem to be pretty sure of this. What kind of odds are you offering?

Even money of course. If no one takes that, then I know the guys telling me the union won't be able to get 50% later are simply all talk and no walk.

Even money means you think the players have at best a 50% chance of getting 50. I would have thought you might offer 3:1 or even 4:1 since you seem pretty confident that the union can get 50 at any time.

[floppymoose]

Even money means I think I'm more likely to be right than those saying otherwise. And them not taking the action implies they don't have the courage of their convictions.

So this isn't targeted at you, but there are a lot of posers out there in the lockout debate, who pretend that the players are being dumb and that the deal they get will get worse. But they don't really believe it - they just want to hate on the players for some reason.

The wager is just a way to show what's what on that score. Haters gonna hate, but they ain't gonna pay.

[OAKLEY_2]

Code: Select all

The NBA should change their marketing angle after this.

Get away from marketing the players specifically & get back to marketing teams & rivalries.

All of this focus on marketing individual players has caused these guys heads to swell & it's not about teams & rivalries anymore (which it should be).

I don't hear that Jose Bautista or Phil Kessel worried about "building their brand", or making plans to team up with multiple allstars on other teams.

There are huge problems in the NBA & it extends well beyond the CBA. There is a massive culture problem overall.

The league is becoming a joke because the inmates have started running the asylum.

I'm not sure why it rubs me the wrong way but the stench of "star" marketing, the big 3, the same old teams being contenders, Stern fawning over the the MVP after the championship etc. etc. is unique to this league but then again so is the Dance Pak and the Heat Dancers. At some point this league has to stand on its own two feet for its product and not on all the PT Barnum crp that, yes Medic you are so right, makes it a collosal joke.

[floppymoose]

Latest Woj piece is very interesting:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... ter_110111

“Billy can’t just say it’s 52 or nothing, and walk out again,” one league source involved the talks told Yahoo! Sports. “That will not happen again. It’s time that the players get to make a decision on this, and there won’t be another check lost before they do.”

In the end, there are two courses for the union: Take the deal largely on the table or blow this up, decertify and lose the season fighting the NBA in the federal courts.

Only, it’s too late to decertify. Everyone wanted to do it back in July when the lockout started, and Hunter refused. His decision had nothing to do with legal strategy, nothing to do with leverage or getting the best possible deal for the players. It had everything to do with what it always does with Hunter: self-preservation. He worried about losing power, losing his job, and he sold everyone on a toothless National Labor Relations Board claim that’s going nowhere.

To take on the NBA – Stern, Silver, the owners, the lawyers, the PR machine – everyone needs to be pulling the same way, with the same goals. As the union fought for its survival, so has Billy Hunter. Only, he’s been chasing his own, and he’s going to lose that fight, too.

Sooner than later, these labor talks need to get out of Fisher’s and Hunter’s hands, and into those of the rank and file. Whatever the civil war, the Players Association still belongs to the players. They should take it back, and take it back now.

[raptors_star]

Why is the cap going up? Shouldn't it be lower than last season?

[J-Roc]

Those Woj clips look like a guy who desperately wants the NBA back.

[knickerbocker2k2]

Hunter seems to be incompetent. I will reserve full judgement until there is conclusion to this saga but so far he has played this all wrong. It is his contention that they knew the owners would play hardball for couple of seasons and would threaten to lose the season.

If he knew this for awhile, what was his game plan? So far all they have done is concede and concede. Look at the NFLPA. They took to the offensive and decertify. If they knew owners would not bargain in good faith, why not go ahead and decertify as soon as season is finished? By now their would have being couple of rulings and owners would be more likely to bargain to fair resolution, than looking for the best deal possible.

[MEDIC]

The NBA should change their marketing angle after this.

Get away from marketing the players specifically & get back to marketing teams & rivalries.

All of this focus on marketing individual players has caused these guys heads to swell & it's not about teams & rivalries anymore (which it should be).

I don't hear that Jose Bautista or Phil Kessel worried about "building their brand", or making plans to team up with multiple allstars on other teams.

You're one of my fav posters, MEDIC, but this is crazy. You must have a better grasp of marketing and the nature of the game of basketball than this.

Personally, I'd rather hear about the "Legendary Bulls", or The legendary "Bad Boy Pistons", rather than the "legendary Lebron James" who hasn't won squat.

In the good old days, players/ teams were marketed after the'd proven themselves. They earned it.

Now it's just one big hype machine. The NBA sells fluff....not substance.

I'm just speaking from my perspective as a fan. I'd rather be sold a quality product rather than hype.

I'm quite confident that the league could continue to have a successful marketing campaign if they tweaked things just a little to promote the sport & teams a little more than they currently do.