Political Roundtable Quasar of Mayhem part III

[DCZards]

Cain's speech pattern is start to wear on me.

The way he breaks up his sentence and drags out certain symbols is very unorthodox.

The comedians are going to have a ball impersonating him.

Cain's speech pattern and folksiness are among the reasons he's doing so well in the polls. If I were him I wouldn't change a thing.

[hands11]

Cain's speech pattern is start to wear on me.

The way he breaks up his sentence and drags out certain symbols is very unorthodox.

The comedians are going to have a ball impersonating him.

Cain's speech pattern and folksiness are among the reasons he's doing so well in the polls. If I were him I wouldn't change a thing.

I'm not so sure about that but we will see if he folksiness gets him through the campaign financing issue.

As for the sex aligations. I wonder what he said.

Lady. - I'll take a large pizza
Herman - you want black walnut to give you some sausage with that.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

This is why I'm generally apolitical.

Hilary Clinton, a couple years ago with a warm welcome to this man.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtWIZg5TihU[/youtube]

About three weeks ago, Hilary visited the Middle East and called for Gadaffi to be killed or captured. Same guy that Hilary once warmly welcomed, like his dad, met his fate (below) within days of her visit.

WARNING: DO NOT WATCH IF HUMAN SUFFERING AND BARBARISM DISTURB YOU
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWl65CjQs84&feature=related[/youtube]

--I am a lifelong Democrat, but I think our country is becoming a bit too mercenary for its own good. I am not thrilled with the way this administration is handling things now.

--I will alway love my country. I would still die supporting and defending, regardless of who is in office, be it Democrat, Republican, Tea Party, etc. However, my personal opinion is that the main thing our country needs to be is righteous.

--It seems to me NATO put a hit on Muammar by getting him to come out in that convoy. He left relative safety but was ambushed. Why? IMO NATO and this administration allowed his own people to actually humiliate and kill him.

--I wonder who is in power in that country and how long before the US with NATO have to suppress that leadership to divide up the oil and money.

--I guess that's just the way it is, but it doesn't mean I have to feel good about it. Also, maybe in the long run things will work out better for the greater good. I just don't like the way our administration and NATO did this.

-- I think the regime coming in will probably prove to be less humane and more of a pain in the you-know-where than Muammar Gaddafi's.

--Last, I remember the day the Monica Lewinsky scandal broke is when Bill Clinton launched an airstrike against Libya.

--Politics seem to have come full circle and are right back where they were in the 1960s, when many political assassinations abroad were sanctioned by our politicos and when assassinations occurred on our own soil. One thing about history is that when lessons are NOT learned, history repeats itself. Maybe is just some inevitable sign of the times we live in.

[Wizards2Lottery]

You can barely speak for the Libyan people and tell them what they should have done to Gaddafi.

- Raping women.
- Torturing opposition.
- Using his military in the last few months to dismantle large portions of Benghazi, Misrata etc.
- Killed civilians, using tanks, rockets, infantry.
- Snipers perched on rooftops taking out civilians heading to hospitals for help.

Evil despicable man. His sons were just as scum as him. I'm glad our government is finally taking steps to stop supporting evil dictators like they have in the past.

Under Obama we have:

- Stopped supporting Pakistan.
- Killed Osama and Al-Awlaki.
- Strongly weakened Al-Qaeda.
- Largely pushed the Taliban out of Afghanistan and into Pakistan.
- Seen the fall of two villainous dictators in major Arab/African dictatorships.

This is a big change from 'support the evil who like us' and 'disarm those who resent us'. Lead from behind, go after the big names. As far as the 'assassinations', Gaddafi is hardly one. This was the rage of 40 years of oppression. i hardly blame these people. None of us know how it felt living in those conditions.

Righteousness be damned when it comes to taking out scum. I trust our government, R or L, to protect its citizens. Heavy cost, but the world is a better place with a weakened Al-Qaeda and no Saddam's and Gaddafi's.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You can barely speak for the Libyan people and tell them what they should have done to Gaddafi.

- Raping women.
- Torturing opposition.
- Using his military in the last few months to dismantle large portions of Benghazi, Misrata etc.
- Killed civilians, using tanks, rockets, infantry.
- Snipers perched on rooftops taking out civilians heading to hospitals for help.

Evil despicable man. His sons were just as scum as him. I'm glad our government is finally taking steps to stop supporting evil dictators like they have in the past.

Under Obama we have:

- Stopped supporting Pakistan.
- Killed Osama and Al-Awlaki.
- Strongly weakened Al-Qaeda.
- Largely pushed the Taliban out of Afghanistan and into Pakistan.
- Seen the fall of two villainous dictators in major Arab/African dictatorships.

This is a big change from 'support the evil who like us' and 'disarm those who resent us'. Lead from behind, go after the big names. As far as the 'assassinations', Gaddafi is hardly one. This was the rage of 40 years of oppression. i hardly blame these people. None of us know how it felt living in those conditions.

Righteousness be damned when it comes to taking out scum. I trust our government, R or L, to protect its citizens. Heavy cost, but the world is a better place with a weakened Al-Qaeda and no Saddam's and Gaddafi's.

All the people the US have killed are sort of like Bebe's kids. "They don't die, they multiply."

The guys who stuck something up Muammar's butt as they were marching to execute him will probably do more of the same, W2L. Misrata didn't seem to follow the Law of Armed Conflict or Geneva Convention the way they executed Gaddaffi. Not that he didn't have it coming, but I would have liked to have seen something a little more organized, planned, and less chaotic. There seemed to be a mob of crazed killers motivated by a bounty as much as a vendetta. I dunno, but they don't seem like the sort of folks that will do anything but become oppressors themselves.

That said, I do not speak at all in defense of Gaddaffi nor do I speak of what Libyans should have done. Good riddance, it is done. That is what they chose to do and their people seem overjoyed. I am just glad I don't live in that country.

What I AM SAYING TO YOU IN PARTICULAR is that one minute we put these people in positions to exploit their people, as long as they play ball with us (see Noriega, see the Shah of Iran, see Osama Bin Laden, see Col Gaddafi), and the next minute the US pulls the chair from under neath of them.

Gaddaffi with his billions had the support or at least impartiality of the US for many, many years. Same son above who was captured, reportedly tortured and then executed; entertained Beyonce and a host of stars not long ago. Gaddaffi was on very good terms with the Bush administration and Condeleeza Rice just a few years ago.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/2 ... 36250.html

Libyan Leader Muammar Gaddafi Kept Scrapbook Of Condoleezza Rice

The former U.S. Secretary of State paid a visit to Tripoli in 2008 during a brief interlude that saw Gadhafi begin to be welcomed back into the international fold. As Jason Ukman of the Washington Post wrote on Wednesday, "it was only three short years ago that Rice shared a late-night dinner with Gaddafi to break the Ramadan fast, three short years ago that the United States and Libya were celebrating what was to be a new chapter in their relations."

W2L, I think there is absolutely no coincidence that Gadaffi took flight and ran after Hilary Clinton's visit to the Middle East, just before he got killed. Why did we suddenly freeze his assets when we have had the ability to do so for years?

I understand the vast majority of Libyans are glad to be free of their past tyrant. But one thing i DO KNOW from paying attention to history is that USUALLY when the US helps take one leader out the next one turns out to be much worse.

I think the next regime will be just as bad and our presence in the region will backfire.

[Wizards2Lottery]

There are few things that are much different than the past:

1. We were not a key player in either revolution. We had a role yes, but it was not significant enough to say that it was the US that overthrew them. We simply rode the momentum and facilitated from the back.

2. Mistakes from the past do not mean we should continue or not fix what we facilitated. Yes in our past we supported dictators, but our foreign policies have largely failed due to the overall distrust the rest of the world has with us. The Obama adminstration has done a good job of understanding this and not portraying the US as greedy scum.

I'm willing to accept this as a 180 in our foreign policy. We need to maintain neutrality from here on out.

[popper]

There are few things that are much different than the past:

1. We were not a key player in either revolution. We had a role yes, but it was not significant enough to say that it was the US that overthrew them. We simply rode the momentum and facilitated from the back.

2. Mistakes from the past do not mean we should continue or not fix what we facilitated. Yes in our past we supported dictators, but our foreign policies have largely failed due to the overall distrust the rest of the world has with us. The Obama adminstration has done a good job of understanding this and not portraying the US as greedy scum.

I'm willing to accept this as a 180 in our foreign policy. We need to maintain neutrality from here on out.

Complicated issue but I agree we need to maintain (as best we can and/or when possible) neutraility in foreign affairs. I also share CCJ's concern about the need for righteousness in our actions. We of all nations must set a righteous example for the world and be deserving of the "city on a hill" and "light of the world" aspirations.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Literally nothing we do will make us righteous in the eyes of most in the Middle East and Pakistan. The Arab/Muslim community outside of our country is in general very distrustful of us. Our boycott of UNESCO over the recent Palestinian inclusion is just an example.

As critical as I am over the need to go to Iraq, we live in a better world without Saddam. Rice was on The Daily Show last night. She raised an interesting hypothesis: what would the Middle East look like today with Saddam still in power? Toppling him did cause a ripple effect. Now we need to ensure that Iran doesn't exert influence over the new Iraqi regime.

[hands11]

There are few things that are much different than the past:

1. We were not a key player in either revolution. We had a role yes, but it was not significant enough to say that it was the US that overthrew them. We simply rode the momentum and facilitated from the back.

2. Mistakes from the past do not mean we should continue or not fix what we facilitated. Yes in our past we supported dictators, but our foreign policies have largely failed due to the overall distrust the rest of the world has with us. The Obama adminstration has done a good job of understanding this and not portraying the US as greedy scum.

I'm willing to accept this as a 180 in our foreign policy. We need to maintain neutrality from here on out.

I think the change in approach is also largely do to timing.

Today, technology exists that can reach ever corner of the world and over the year these people have been exposed to the facts of the way the world is outside there small corner of it. In the past, those people were isolated from information. As such, having a strong man was more needed since there were limited ways of reaching the people and pulling them into modern day realities and different ways of thinking and existing.

[hands11]

Literally nothing we do will make us righteous in the eyes of most in the Middle East and Pakistan. The Arab/Muslim community outside of our country is in general very distrustful of us. Our boycott of UNESCO over the recent Palestinian inclusion is just an example.

As critical as I am over the need to go to Iraq, we live in a better world without Saddam. Rice was on The Daily Show last night. She raised an interesting hypothesis: what would the Middle East look like today with Saddam still in power? Toppling him did cause a ripple effect. Now we need to ensure that Iran doesn't exert influence over the new Iraqi regime.

Well as things are, a majority of us are not trusting of us.

Seems logical that we need to address that issue first before we expect others to have more faith in us.

I think they do in one way, but it could be a lot more.

We need to clean up our own house first. Then we can be the shinning light that attracts again.

[popper]

Literally nothing we do will make us righteous in the eyes of most in the Middle East and Pakistan. The Arab/Muslim community outside of our country is in general very distrustful of us. Our boycott of UNESCO over the recent Palestinian inclusion is just an example.

As critical as I am over the need to go to Iraq, we live in a better world without Saddam. Rice was on The Daily Show last night. She raised an interesting hypothesis: what would the Middle East look like today with Saddam still in power? Toppling him did cause a ripple effect. Now we need to ensure that Iran doesn't exert influence over the new Iraqi regime.

Agree with almost everything you say. Our State Dept. and others in critical international govt. functions are inept and have been for the past 20 yrs. The ignorant masses that comprise the Middle East are thus because they are forbidden from hearing an alternative viewpoint. Give me the resources of these govt. functionaries and I could change hearts and minds in the Middle East within 6 months. Same with China and Russia, etc. Our govt. reps, elected and unelected, lack real world experience and gonads and therefore are hopelessly ineffective.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

We need to clean up our own house first. Then we can be the shining light that attracts again.

[hands11]

We need to clean up our own house first. Then we can be the shining light that attracts again.

Example.

AZ people voted in a 5 panel group 2D 2R and 1 independent to take the redistricting out of the hands of the party in power. They wanted something more independent. So the party in power couldnt bake their own cake.

So they submitted there new districts. What did the gov of AZ due ? She somehow fired the lead manager of the group.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/03/us/ar ... .html?_r=1

[DCZards]

We need to clean up our own house first. Then we can be the shinning light that attracts again.

Agreed. It is a little hard to be seen as a "shining light" or as a nation to be followed or emulated when the percentage of American families in poverty is rising, when the number of people without healthcare coverage continues to go up, and when the gap between wealthy Americans (or the1%) and the rest of us (or the 99%) is obscene and growing. People in other countries would likely say "why we would want to be like that?"

[dobrojim]

Chalmers Johnson (rip) has written extensively about foreign policy since WWII.
I heartily recommend the Blowback trilogy.

If we want to have better relations with the rest of the world, we could
start by ending the garrisoning of the planet by US troops.

Anyone who has issues with withdrawing should ask themselves how
they think the American people would react to having foreign troops
in bases on American soil. These bases have little to nothing to do with
actual defense - how could they? they're not on US soil - but are more
about protecting anti-democractic regimes and multi-natl corps that
are not acting in the interests of the local peoples.

[hands11]

Elizabeth Warren, Massachusetts Senate candidate, called a ‘socialist whore’ by Tea Party heckler: VIDEO

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politic ... bled=false

Man makes a reference to Warren's 'foreign-born' boss, presumably President Obama, before walking out.

How nice.

[hands11]

Nov 4, 2011 4:12pm
Cain Jokes He’s ‘Koch Brothers’ Brother From Another Mother’

In a vivacious speech this afternoon, Herman Cain defended his ties to the Koch brothers, the billionaire oilmen famous for bankrolling conservative campaigns.

“I am the Koch brothers’ brother from another mother … and proud of it,” Cain said at a summit in Washington, D.C., today held by Americans for Prosperity, a group founded by David Koch.

That statement spurred a loud cheer from the audience.


Again, remind me why a independent thinking politically aware intelligent person is supposed to take this party serious when this is the guy that is leading their polls. It really saddens me that there is a large enough group of people in this country that would allow this to happen.

You want to know why we are where we are.. look no further. We have a two party system and one side just won't seem to get serious and grow up.

What does this party have against smart people. Its always Reagan, GWB, or McCain, Sarah while the Dems give you Kennedy, Carter, Clinton, Obama. Bush Sr is the only smart person I can recall them running.

I guess it makes sense Cain is a front runner. He was a special interest lobbyist and that is what this party is. The sheep that follow that lobby money.

[Zonkerbl]

Hands, I don't know if you've seen this Rachel Maddow clip. It explains a lot.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp ... 7#45171907

[hands11]

Hands, I don't know if you've seen this Rachel Maddow clip. It explains a lot.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp ... 7#45171907

Yes I did and that is all the more reason to be beating ones head against the wall. I said it a long time ago, this guy is not seriously running any more then Sarah or Trump were. The fact the R don't get that is troubling. Sorry if some feel that is partition but it is clear that there is only one side who support the people that are creating this situation. Until the R and Independents start showing support for candidates who are smart, mature, and sensible like Huntsman, then I will call attention to this insanity. I can only hope that if you beat on a rock long enough that it will start to brake. I know it is really hard for people to admit they have been duped, but it needs to happen so we can more forward. People need to swallow their pride and look at things with fresh eyes so we can move forward.

And now the republicans are trying to pin the Cain sex issue on the Dems when everyone who pays any attention knows it was Cains X staff member who know this information and he went to the Perry campaign staff. If there is a smoking gun, it is Perry against Cain, not the Dems.

And then add that Cain comes out saying his is in bed with the Koch brothers but the sheep TP don't even care.

If anyone doesn't get the effects of the rich elite in politics, they need to wake up.. This should be a slam dunk for the Dems. They have all the facts on their side. McConnell coming out publicly saying all he cares about is making Obama a one termer. The fact they will not pass anything to help the economy even when the bils are plans they used to agree with. The fact that was have had 20 straight mouths of private sector job growth goes 180% against their argument that "the job creators" can't do anything because of regulations.....which are at historic lows. Look, it is clear. Kochs spend millions to change the laws to they can make billions. That is a great ROI.

If it wasn't for the government job getting cut because of lack of funding, we would have even better job growth. Add what the R did to screw the postal service forcing them to cut jobs and services. We could have that if we would just take a very small percentage of people are very small percentage more. This is a total no brainer but we can't get it done. That is how bad one side has been brain washed and that is just how effect money and marketing and get people to follow like sheep. Making this situation better isn't complicated at all. Everything we need to do is right there and we the R are doing NOTHING to help. To the contrary, they are doing everything they can to hurt.

How can people argue against this.



http://s3.mediamattersaction.org.s3.ama ... end911.jpg


The Dems need to just keep it simple and post these graphs everywhere.

All we need to do to turn the corner is do what we know we need to do from the jobs bill. But it isn't happening because of just one party who doesn't want the economy to recover. That isn't speculation. That is fact.

[nate33]

Take that exact same chart, and change the labels to "Democrats control the House" and "Republicans control the House" and it would be much more illuminating.

Besides, it's not a surprise that there would eventually be some kind of turnaround. You can't lose jobs month over month in perpetuity. We currently have the lowest percentage of people in the labor force since the 70's. To argue that we are somehow on the cusp of a new era of growth is hopelessly naive.