Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread II

[floppymoose]

Reignman, PM me if you want to put some money on whether the players get 50% BRI. Easy Canadian dollars!!!!

[anj]

As mentioned many times, the deal will only get worse and worse.

Ric Bucher: I'm hearing that the owners' resolve and they are willing this: to lose the entire season and get the absolute best deal that they can is gaining strength at this point. ESPN.com

Chris Broussard: I'm hearing a lot of the same things that Ric has heard. At the beginning of the week I was told that if a deal is not done within a week and a half to two weeks, the 50/50 will no longer will be on the table from the owners. They will go now on the 46, 47 percent of BRI. They feel like if they lose this season the money they'll lose they will gain it back in over the next ten years because they will have a very favorable CBA if they not have this season. ESPN.com

I expect that the deal (when eventually finalized) will look similar to the owner's original demands. They are going to win on the BRI split and they are going to win on the systemic changes. This is why I've wanted for this to drag on longer and became a bit nervous when they were talking about a 78 game season.

The longer this goes on the better it'll be for the system.

B.S.

I'm surprised you're buying all of this in the middle of a negotiation which is set to resume in a mere two days.

This is pure heat from the owners. They have a lot to lose, too.

[S.W.A.N]

As mentioned many times, the deal will only get worse and worse.

Ric Bucher: I'm hearing that the owners' resolve and they are willing this: to lose the entire season and get the absolute best deal that they can is gaining strength at this point. ESPN.com

Chris Broussard: I'm hearing a lot of the same things that Ric has heard. At the beginning of the week I was told that if a deal is not done within a week and a half to two weeks, the 50/50 will no longer will be on the table from the owners. They will go now on the 46, 47 percent of BRI. They feel like if they lose this season the money they'll lose they will gain it back in over the next ten years because they will have a very favorable CBA if they not have this season. ESPN.com

I expect that the deal (when eventually finalized) will look similar to the owner's original demands. They are going to win on the BRI split and they are going to win on the systemic changes. This is why I've wanted for this to drag on longer and became a bit nervous when they were talking about a 78 game season.

The longer this goes on the better it'll be for the system.

B.S.

I'm surprised you're buying all of this in the middle of a negotiation which is set to resume in a mere two days.

This is pure heat from the owners. They have a lot to lose, too.

I actually buy into this (to a certain point) The number on hard line owners is surprisingly high, some of the owners who normally are big spenders are playing along with the low ball guys who want to break the union.

As weird as this may sound the only thing saving the players right now is Stern. I think if stern were to step aside Silver would be going for the throat, season be damned. Hard cap and less that 50 percent for the players.

I say this because Stern has a long relationship with the owners and can bully cajole them into a fairish deal, where as Silver is going to be a puppet attack dog and do exactly as owners want.

If I were the players I would take 50/50, and start building a war chest of funds so that they can get a better deal in 6 years. Owners are scared of lockouts/strikes when they making money, not when they losing it.

Players need to step back, take the hits and come back stronger.

[rapswin2010]

50.5/49.5 split going to be done on saturday. Deal going to be done. Season will start early december, mark my word.

[ranger001]

If the players take the 50% this weekend or next week they can still get it. However if they wait longer than that then the owners will withdraw the offer and offer them something lower in December, mark my word

[Reignman]

Reignman, PM me if you want to put some money on whether the players get 50% BRI. Easy Canadian dollars!!!!

I'm not wagering my hard earned $$$ on something that has ZERO effect on my life.

All I really care about is systemic changes in the CBA. I couldn't give a rat's ass what the BRI split will be.

I'm just hoping that the players give on the system in order to get a better split. This is why I found it ridiculously moronic for the players to get so involved in the system, it was a sucker move on their part. They should've stayed strong on the BRI and gave on the system but they wanted the best of both worlds.

[ranger001]

I expect that the deal (when eventually finalized) will look similar to the owner's original demands. They are going to win on the BRI split and they are going to win on the systemic changes. This is why I've wanted for this to drag on longer and became a bit nervous when they were talking about a 78 game season.

The longer this goes on the better it'll be for the system.

According to Larry Coon the offer on the table from the owners is 47% with the stuff they worked on. If they want 50% then the system has to be even more restrictive.
http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-salary-ca ... oon-11211/

This is what the union’s executive director Billy Hunter meant Friday afternoon when he said the league “moved” back to 47. Those were the choices the league laid out to the union in Friday’s disheartening session, according to numerous sources. Fifty-fifty with almost nothing for the tax threshold-breakers, or 53-47 for the league with the negotiations the two sides had worked out all week.

This is good news, I was thinking the owners were losing their resolve.

[Reignman]

Jalle F'N lujah, this is what I'm talking about. If the players want 50% they will need to give the owners and more importantly, the fans what they want by giving on the system.

And you're right, I felt the same with the owners losing a bit of their resolve in their quest to save the season. Glad they found their groove again.

[djsunyc]

If it hadn't been for steroids and HGH, it would have been even worse.

Fixed.

Definitely the MLB strike hurt attendance in Canada, ultimately killing the Expos. The permanent drop in the Jays league-leading (to the tune of 4 mill/yr) attendance occurred around this time. And if attendance and ratings never quite recovered across the league, I think it's because baseball is a bit of an anachronism in this hyperactive culture. 3 1/2 hour games? Where not much happens? F that.

Basketball has more to offer the instant gratification crowd. It will "rebound". But it will need a bit more (not too much) parity.

in the 99 strike year, you still had shaq, iverson, carter, kobe, barkley, ewing, malone, stockton, (in their prime marbury, allen, duncankg), penny, etc...

this nba's star power is heavily watered down today.

[RapTelligence]

If it hadn't been for steroids and HGH, it would have been even worse.

Fixed.

Definitely the MLB strike hurt attendance in Canada, ultimately killing the Expos. The permanent drop in the Jays league-leading (to the tune of 4 mill/yr) attendance occurred around this time. And if attendance and ratings never quite recovered across the league, I think it's because baseball is a bit of an anachronism in this hyperactive culture. 3 1/2 hour games? Where not much happens? F that.

Basketball has more to offer the instant gratification crowd. It will "rebound". But it will need a bit more (not too much) parity.

in the 99 strike year, you still had shaq, iverson, carter, kobe, barkley, ewing, malone, stockton, (in their prime marbury, allen, duncankg), penny, etc...

this nba's star power is heavily watered down today.

Carter was selected in the strike year. His first season was the 50 game season.

[floppymoose]

A 47% BRI split is beyond the pale. That's so extremely ridiculous that the players should just decertify and go to court. In the 4 major leagues, players have been getting around 54 to 58% for most of this decade. There is nothing magical about NBA that should make it more expensive to run than the other majors.

A power play for $400+ million a season is big enough to go to the mat over. With total free agency (and no non-statutory labor exemption) there is no way the owners end up with anything close to that. Players, get with your agents and figure this out already.

[S.W.A.N]

If it hadn't been for steroids and HGH, it would have been even worse.

Fixed.

Definitely the MLB strike hurt attendance in Canada, ultimately killing the Expos. The permanent drop in the Jays league-leading (to the tune of 4 mill/yr) attendance occurred around this time. And if attendance and ratings never quite recovered across the league, I think it's because baseball is a bit of an anachronism in this hyperactive culture. 3 1/2 hour games? Where not much happens? F that.

Basketball has more to offer the instant gratification crowd. It will "rebound". But it will need a bit more (not too much) parity.

in the 99 strike year, you still had shaq, iverson, carter, kobe, barkley, ewing, malone, stockton, (in their prime marbury, allen, duncankg), penny, etc...

this nba's star power is heavily watered down today.

Watered down?

Kobe,Duncan,Pierce, Ray Allan, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Durant, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Rose, Love, Howard....

This is not watered down, this is a new age. Just the last couple years have we had an influx of super star talent like in the 90's. Lebron Durant Howard and friends are special talents and have only begun to dominate the league like the Mj's Bird and Magic era.

[Reignman]

.

[Reignman]

It's a simple solution for the players, take the 50% and GTFO out of the systemic changes.

I like where this is heading.

[RapTelligence]

A 47% BRI split is beyond the pale. That's so extremely ridiculous that the players should just decertify and go to court. In the 4 major leagues, players have been getting around 54 to 58% for most of this decade. There is nothing magical about NBA that should make it more expensive to run than the other majors.

A power play for $400+ million a season is big enough to go to the mat over. With total free agency (and no non-statutory labor exemption) there is no way the owners end up with anything close to that. Players, get with your agents and figure this out already.

You cannot really compare the other leagues. Its like comparing apples and oranges. The NFL does not have gauranteed contracts. The NHL will try and fix their issues in the next CBA as they are bleeding badly. MLB is completely different.

[tecumseh18]

I love Steve Nash's line (quoted by Whitlock) about how Lil' Wayne took 97 percent of the gross at a recent show in Phoenix, by way of pointing out that the talent usually gets the lion's share in show business.

I don't think the players will ever settle for less than 50%, or 50.5% for that matter. But I think they can bend on the system issues a little bit more. $5 mill MLE was a bit surprising.

But don't bend on "one and done", at least not this season!

[floppymoose]

You can't treat the leagues as identical, no. But there are certain basic ways in which they are similar. The non-guaranteed aspect of the NFL, for instance, is a red herring. I'm not talking about non-guaranteed money. I'm talking about money the players actually get.

And I refuse to believe the costs in the NBA are so much more severe that the owners need 10% more than the other leagues. It may be apples and oranges, but it's not apples and diamonds.

[ranger001]

Non-guaranteed contracts are not a red herring, the percentage is related to the system. I'm sure the NBA owners would move over 50% if all contracts were non-guaranteed.

[Reignman]

Non-guaranteed contracts are not a red herring, the percentage is related to the system. I'm sure the NBA owners would move over 50% if all contracts were non-guaranteed.

Agreed, and they'd likely do it with a smile on their face.

[floppymoose]

Non-guaranteed contracts are not a red herring, the percentage is related to the system. I'm sure the NBA owners would move over 50% if all contracts were non-guaranteed.

What I'm discussing is the amount of the pie that players actually get. In this last decade, that was well over 50% for NFL. That's the figure that really matters. If one league has non-guaranteed contracts and another league has guaranteed, the way to compare them is to look at the money the players _actually get_.