Prado and/or Jurrjens on the move ?

[Nemesis21]

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/arti ... l&c_id=atl


Honestly, I'd like to see both stay. As it mentioned in the article, the Braves could be reluctant to deal Jurrjens with recent injuries to the staff, both he and Hanson suffered injuries this past season.
Also it mentions how valuable Prado is by playing 3b when Chipper is out.


I believe we could afford to keep Bourn. And we don't need a spend a ton to fix some holes. I'd really like them to get Willingham for LF, brings more power from the corner OFs. I believe Jason will have a bounce back yr. Prado would be used in super utility role(3b,LF, 2b, 1b).
Some upgrades will be needed on the bench, Ross and Hinske will already be back for '12, then you add Prado. That leaves two spots open, I wouldn't mind Diaz sticking around in one of those spots, but definitely need to upgrade from Conrad.

[HMFFL]

I had to let this soak in for a day before commenting. I still have no idea what to think about it because I would need to see the return if a trade occurred. My issue with dealing with KC is that they have very little that interest me. I could honestly careless the "highly regarded young prospects" that they have because I want to win now and not take a step back by just trading for prospects.

We have the pitching depth that makes Jair Jurrjens moveable, but many of our young arms are still not ready, and going with them in the postseason concerns me.

Is Frank Wren and our ownership REALLY concerned about paying the two of them $5 million each? If so, I think it's time for another ownership.

[HMFFL]

A good read by Mark Bradley.

Because I can’t really see a method in the Wren Method. He’s apparently worried that Jurrjens — and also Martin Prado, who’s not a pitcher — will receive around $5 million in arbitration. (For the record, neither Jurrjens nor Prado can become a free agent until after the 2013 season.) But $5 million times two would be $10 million, which brings us back to the severance package the Braves just bestowed on Derek Lowe.

The point being: The Braves often act as if they have no money to spend, but sometimes their actions belie that. The Lowe contract ($60 million over four seasons) was one example. The Kenshin Kawakami signing ($23 million over three) was another. And last winter they traded for Dan Uggla and handed him the biggest contract ever given a big-league second baseman. Whereupon he produced his worst season as a major leaguer, and now you look at that contract and note that it runs through 2015 and that Uggla will turn 32 before the 2012 season commences.

Some general managers can run clubs on a shoestring. I’m not sure Wren is such a GM. He loves making trades to the point of excess: During the 2009 regular season, he made three major deals that yielded starting-type players who are no longer Braves (Nate McLouth, Ryan Church, Adam LaRoche). He tried to dump Lowe after one season. Finding no takers, Wren dealt Javier Vazquez after one (very good) season. Melky Cabrera and Mike Dunn, acquired in the Vazquez deal, lasted one season here. Rick Ankiel and Kyle Farnsworth, acquired at the 2010 trading deadline, lasted two months. Derrek Lee didn’t last that long.

I’m not saying that Wren is wrong for making trades. Getting Jurrjens for Edgar Renteria was a great move. The Michael Bourn trade at this season’s deadline without sacrificing a big-name pitching prospect was a great move. But the overall effect is one of constant motion, and sometimes the motion can be dizzying. Landing Uggla forced Prado, who’d been an All-Star in 2009, to find a new position; he wound up in left field and had his worst year.

Wren’s boilerplate response to all questions — “We’re always looking at ways to improve our club” — doesn’t mean he always has to be in trade mode. Dealing away Jurrjens and Prado won’t enable the Braves to afford the free-agent shortstop Jose Reyes, and simply playing musical chairs with 25 roster spots doesn’t constitute an overarching vision. I’d like to see this GM try, for a change, sitting still. http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/ ... tic-frank/

[Nemesis21]

A good read by Mark Bradley.

Because I can’t really see a method in the Wren Method. He’s apparently worried that Jurrjens — and also Martin Prado, who’s not a pitcher — will receive around $5 million in arbitration. (For the record, neither Jurrjens nor Prado can become a free agent until after the 2013 season.) But $5 million times two would be $10 million, which brings us back to the severance package the Braves just bestowed on Derek Lowe.

The point being: The Braves often act as if they have no money to spend, but sometimes their actions belie that. The Lowe contract ($60 million over four seasons) was one example. The Kenshin Kawakami signing ($23 million over three) was another. And last winter they traded for Dan Uggla and handed him the biggest contract ever given a big-league second baseman. Whereupon he produced his worst season as a major leaguer, and now you look at that contract and note that it runs through 2015 and that Uggla will turn 32 before the 2012 season commences.

Some general managers can run clubs on a shoestring. I’m not sure Wren is such a GM. He loves making trades to the point of excess: During the 2009 regular season, he made three major deals that yielded starting-type players who are no longer Braves (Nate McLouth, Ryan Church, Adam LaRoche). He tried to dump Lowe after one season. Finding no takers, Wren dealt Javier Vazquez after one (very good) season. Melky Cabrera and Mike Dunn, acquired in the Vazquez deal, lasted one season here. Rick Ankiel and Kyle Farnsworth, acquired at the 2010 trading deadline, lasted two months. Derrek Lee didn’t last that long.

I’m not saying that Wren is wrong for making trades. Getting Jurrjens for Edgar Renteria was a great move. The Michael Bourn trade at this season’s deadline without sacrificing a big-name pitching prospect was a great move. But the overall effect is one of constant motion, and sometimes the motion can be dizzying. Landing Uggla forced Prado, who’d been an All-Star in 2009, to find a new position; he wound up in left field and had his worst year.

Wren’s boilerplate response to all questions — “We’re always looking at ways to improve our club” — doesn’t mean he always has to be in trade mode. Dealing away Jurrjens and Prado won’t enable the Braves to afford the free-agent shortstop Jose Reyes, and simply playing musical chairs with 25 roster spots doesn’t constitute an overarching vision. I’d like to see this GM try, for a change, sitting still. http://blogs.ajc.com/mark-bradley-blog/ ... tic-frank/

Agree with it all.

[Nemesis21]

I had to let this soak in for a day before commenting. I still have no idea what to think about it because I would need to see the return if a trade occurred. My issue with dealing with KC is that they have very little that interest me. I could honestly careless the "highly regarded young prospects" that they have because I want to win now and not take a step back by just trading for prospects.

We have the pitching depth that makes Jair Jurrjens moveable, but many of our young arms are still not ready, and going with them in the postseason concerns me.

Is Frank Wren and our ownership REALLY concerned about paying the two of them $5 million each? If so, I think it's time for another ownership.

Most definitely, we have about an $ 85-90 million payroll. That's why Wren has to be so cheap, that's why he is thinking about moving one of or both Jurrjens and Prado. We need an owner who can put us at the plus side of $100 mill payroll.

[ohara]

I am a good bit concerned with JJ and his health. But I sure would not want to see a trade merely for cost cutting purposes. The FO may also be thinking that with Boras as JJ's agent, they will not be able to resign him. I think it is wise to see what may be out there in the form of a trade which can make us better. After all, we do have young pitching depth upon which to rely. Figure Minor will be coming up with Lowe gone. If JJ goes, JT steps up perhaps, or maybe Medlen so as to not throw too much on JT's shoulders.

I have to say I am a bit more weary of trading Prado than JJ. Prado can play a few different positions for us, and that makes him very valuable. Especially with Chipper coming back, and his health is always a gamble lately.

Bottom line for me is, I have to put my faith in Wren to do the right thing. Pull the trigger if the deal is right, dont if the deal is not what you want.

Bo

[bstrassburg]

Agree with everything you all have said. I think Wren will do whatever is right to make our team better. I didn't mind doing the potential Jurrjens and Prado for Wil Myers and Lorenzo Cain trade. Myers is a stud and I've always liked Lorenzo Cain and think he could be a pretty decent option in LF this year (as a Constanza type spark plug in the 8 hole) and starting CF and lead-off hitter in 2013. If Myers keeps his AFL hot streak going in 2012 in AA, he would be ready for the big leagues in 2013 and an OF of Myers-Cain-Heyward could be great for years to come.

By no means should the Braves short-sell on Jurrjens and Prado, I think Jurrjens is a great pitcher. I hate all of the "experts" that say he's lucky. He's been "lucky" for four seasons now. He's legit and great at pitching out of jams. He's not a Roy Halladay or Tim Lincecum in style, but that doesn't mean he's not a top of the rotation pitcher. And Prado is a .300 hitter who ran into some bad luck with an oblique injury that clearly bothered him the second half of this season. There was no holding Prado out of the line-up, he's a gamer and not being healthy for last postseason clearly bothered him and there was nothing that was going to hold him out this year. That may not have been the best decision as he clearly struggled to get anything going at the plate. Prado is clearly our best option as a number 2 hitter in a regular line-up and the only good option we have when Chipper misses time and as a replacement next year.

My only complaint with the Mark Bradley article is that all of the trades he mentioned, were clearly done as short term options to make the team better and were not meant to be long-term. Heyward was going to take over Church's spot the following year, Freeman for LaRoche, and McLouth was just poop. At the same time, I can't think of a sure-fire great player that Frank Wren has traded besides maybe Yunel Escobar and that trade wasn't necessarily because of performance issues rather than him just being a douche and nobody liking him. Also the reason we did the Vasquez deal was hoping that Melky would have the type of season he had in Kansas City as well as getting Vizcaino. He was more than fair with giving Francouer every opportunity to turn it around, but it was clear that Francouer wasn't going to turn it around anytime soon in a Braves uniform.

Like you ohara, I have full faith that Frank Wren will make whatever moves necessary to make the Braves a better ballclub.

[HMFFL]

Rockies talking with Braves about infielder Martin Prado

With the Braves open-minded about trading players, the Rockies have contacted them about infielder Martin Prado, according to a major-league source.

The Rockies, who scouted Prado extensively last season, view him as a starting second baseman who could occupy a run-producing spot in the lineup. The clubs have not yet exchanged names but are expected to keep the lines of communication open.

Atlanta, which is seeking outfield help, is willing to consider moving Prado rather than use him in left field. The Rockies have outfield depth to start trade talks. Seth Smith could fit in a platoon for the Braves, and Charlie Blackmon, a former star at Georgia Tech, might satisfy the Braves' desire to get a center fielder of the future if they are unable to re-sign Michael Bourn after next season.

Prado, 28, is arbitration eligible, in line for roughly $4.5 million on a one-year deal. He struggled last season, hitting .260 with 13 home runs and 57 RBIs after missing time with a staph infection. Prado, however, owns a career .293 average and .341 on-base percentage, and had 58 extra-base hits in 2010. His versatility makes him attractive as he can also play third base, another area of need for the Rockies.

The Rockies have expressed interest in several free-agent second basemen. They are not the favorite to land Jamey Carroll — Detroit appears to be the front-runner — and Colorado is content to let Mark Ellis explore the market before making a serious run at keeping him. http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_19302772

[Nemesis21]

Rockies declare CF Fowler "Off limits" per wiretap.

[Superiorblogman]

Jair and Prado for Troy Tulowitzki

[HMFFL]

Jair and Prado for Troy Tulowitzki

He can only be traded once during his contract, so here is fine with me, and he'll receive a $2 million dollar bonus if he does get traded.

Sadly, it's never going to happen with our current ownership, because he makes too much money between 2015-2019 ($100 million).

[bstrassburg]

Latest buzz is that the Tigers are interested in Prado. I don't think we'll get anything done with the Tigers as the teams don't match up well. Tigers have mentioned that they'd be willing to give up Delmon Young but that wouldn't be enough.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Prado be elsewhere come spring training as a lot of teams are scrambling for a 2B and Frank Wren will find a way to maximize Prado's value.

[bstrassburg]

Not worth starting a new thread over but Jim Bowden is reporting "There is a trade brewing between the Braves and Tigers centering around Prado for Young." Odds are he's just picking up on the original topic but I guess you never know. Braves would need to get a top prospect from the Tigers in addition to Young because Prado is a much better player.

EDIT* Mark Bowman is saying that "Small minority of Wren's staff has unsuccessfully pushed for Young last 2 years. Didn't work. Nothing changed. Won't be a Prado-Young Deal." Whew.

[Superiorblogman]

Look at Young's numbers when playing 100+ games and being relatively healthy he is just as good or better than Prado. Hopefully, we have some big time SS in our plans though.

[bstrassburg]

Look at Young's numbers when playing 100+ games and being relatively healthy he is just as good or better than Prado. Hopefully, we have some big time SS in our plans though.

Delmon Young is not better than Prado, that is ridiculous. If you look at just pure statistics, Delmon Young does put up better power numbers but Prado is a much better pure hitter and works harder than anyone to become a better player. Prado is a 10 WAR player over his career while Delmon Young is a 1.6 WAR player, their stats may look similar but Prado is a much better player. Granted some of that is inflated because he was playing 2B but he can play 2B, 3B, 1B, and LF. Not to mention that Prado is a much better clubhouse presence than Delmon Young (who's been known to be a clubhouse cancer). Not to mention that Delmon Young only has one year of arbitration left, while Prado has two and Young is projected to make around $6 million, while Prado is scheduled around $4.

[HMFFL]

I like Delmon Young, but not straight up for Prado, so I agree that more would possibly need to be included on Detroit's end, but they wouldn't add much more (no top prospect). I think Prado is overrated at times by some Atlanta fans. Let me know if you disagree?