Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread II

[Ponchos]

LOL.
how is that different that getting RGM to pool money and to elect Harry Palmer as our president and representative?

MLSE is a better organized version of that. you have the Teachers, represented by the ppl who run their pension plan, you have Tennenbaum, and you have other minority owners.

There's a gigantic frigging difference.

We'd elect Harry to be the president of overseeing a basketball team. Every single one of us would be interested in the day to day of the Raptors. The day Harry traded Bargs you'd have lawsuits and calls for him to step down.

The teachers elect people to run the OTPP to manage a god damned pension fund. Not a basketball team. They don't care about the Raptors. Even if an individual teacher cares about the Raptors they have absolutely no legal power to do anything about it.

This is why the NBA would never ever ever ever ever allow RealGM'ers to own a franchise, yet it is ok with them for the OTPP to own the Raps.

The NBA chooses who they want to own teams. Just ask Larry Ellison.

our argument has nothing to do with the labour talk anymore, but...you ever read over shareholder agreements? a cleverly crafted SO agreement takes away the micromanagement you speak of. this is how major corporations can make their shares public. but this is a separate discussion

There really is no argument. You asked why don't a large group of people pool their money and buy a team? The answer was given, they can't. The NBA chooses who it allows in the club, they screen their owners carefully. You seemed to think the pension plan was the same thing as a group of interested basketball fans... It isn't.

Now you're saying that the interested basketball people who each put forward a significant amount of money are going to give up their rights in a shareholders agreement? Holy moving target batman.

[C_Money]

Yeah "we're making progress" doesn't mean a damn thing to me. I'll start caring once the lockout is over.

[tecumseh18]

our argument has nothing to do with the labour talk anymore, but...you ever read over shareholder agreements? a cleverly crafted SO agreement takes away the micromanagement you speak of. this is how major corporations can make their shares public. but this is a separate discussion

Yogi, as a lawyer you make a pretty good pharmacist. If I'm understanding your argument correctly, you're completely incorrect.

1. The individual teachers - e.g. my wife - have absolutely zero control over the pension fund. "Teacher's Pension" is not the teachers. It is a third party charged with maintaining and growing the fund within the strict parameters of the governing legislation and the law of fiduciary duties.

2. In corporations, the default position is that the directors and/or the officers they appoint make the operational decisions, and shareholders elect directors once a year at the AGM. Only the occasional major change - e.g. a proposed significant dilution of shares - can require shareholder approval between AGMs. The purpose of shareholders agreements in small to medium sized businesses is generally not to reduce shareholder interference (because shareholders can't legally interfere), but to increase it.

[floppymoose]

I don't want to speak for Yogi, but I suspect when he mentioned shareholder agreements, he was not comparing them to corps without such agreements, but was instead comparing corporations in general to more traditional ownership models, like partnerships.

In those more traditional models, the owners DO have direct say over operations.

[lyricalmilitia]

the meeting havent stopped yet

[Laowai]

LOL.
how is that different that getting RGM to pool money and to elect Harry Palmer as our president and representative?

MLSE is a better organized version of that. you have the Teachers, represented by the ppl who run their pension plan, you have Tennenbaum, and you have other minority owners.[/quote]

You get a billion I will get you the other 1.5 billion buy from the pension fund sell off everything except Air Canada Center and the Raptors. Pay back the loan mind you I get 1/2% of 1.5 billion.

[ILikeToitles]

sigh nvm, got faked out from the general board fake tweets

[Cool-Hand-Luke]

NBATV NBA TV
The NBA & NBPA meeting began @ 1pm today & is still in session. Stay tuned to @NBATV & visit WWW.NBA.COM for the latest updates.

[Cool-Hand-Luke]

Significant progress made:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aj2rmXbfu7da3yyUcgxmheK8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_lockout_110911

[Cool-Hand-Luke]

AschNBA Steve Aschburner
Just got the "wrapping-it-up" sign from NBA spokesmen. NBA's side will talk to media first, NBPA second.

[Courtside]

Taking a break to rest, let the media rest also. Back at it tomorrow at noon, apparently.

[Cool-Hand-Luke]

Taking a break to rest, let the media rest also. Back at it tomorrow at noon, apparently.

I don't know what these guys are talking about in there. 8 hours of talks and no progress...

[Rapsfan07]

Taking a break to rest, let the media rest also. Back at it tomorrow at noon, apparently.

I don't know what these guys are talking about in there. 8 hours of talks and no progress...

Same thing I'm saying.

It's been 12hrs! How the hell are they talking for 12hrs and there's no progress?! What the hell are they in there talking about?

If talks break off again, I fully expect the players to decertify and take this thing to court. This agreement should have been done months ago.

[Twinkie defense]

NFLPA lawyer draws ire of NBA Commish

During the gone-and-largely-forgotten NFL labor dispute, owners expressed exasperation with NFLPA outside counsel Jeffrey Kessler. Perceived by the league for years as gratuitously belligerent and hostile, some believed that Kessler wanted to lose a season in order to secure a gargantuan antitrust verdict, which could have been parlayed into partial ownership of the NFL’s teams by the players.

[Laowai]

The reality is this could have been done in 15 minutes now 12 hours basically still pessimistic since I believe the players are aliens.

[CrookedJ]

Taking a break to rest, let the media rest also. Back at it tomorrow at noon, apparently.

I don't know what these guys are talking about in there. 8 hours of talks and no progress...

Same thing I'm saying.

It's been 12hrs! How the hell are they talking for 12hrs and there's no progress?! What the hell are they in there talking about?

If talks break off again, I fully expect the players to decertify and take this thing to court. This agreement should have been done months ago.

It seems like progress to me. Looks like there is now agreement on the 50/50 as well as 3 of the 5 system issues. That leaves 2 issues left, and we would hope that even though there is no agreement on those two issues, that the sides are closer than they were previously.

[Thelonious]

Yeah, hopefully they're in agreement and just need to iron out a couple of things. In such a case we wouldn't know until both parties' signatures are on the contract. Hoping this is what we'll hear from them before the end of the week.

[plainballing]

I can't believe I was waiting for it 'til mid-night for news...I was so worried of a "nuclear" option the whole night.

[ranger001]

I'm actually hoping no deal gets done or at least not till we lose half the season. NBA players don't knwo how good they have it. Greedy basterds.

[Reignman]

Same here, I'd rather talks die and the NBA goes to the hard cap (flex) proposal. The NBA has a chance to really change things here and if they don't it's another 6 - 10 years of the same systemic problems.

I couldn't care less about the final BRI split.