Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread II

[McFurious1]

I could care less about BRI, revenue sharing.....any of that crap. It doesn't affect me as a fan in any way.

What I want is:

A. Rules that prevent the quick & easy construction of "super teams".

B. Talent spread more evenly throughout the league.

It seems to me that the players are fighting these issues more than any, which is quite annoying. Is it because Fisher is leading the group, who happens to play for the Lakers?

I'm not sure the players can see the forest for the trees anymore.

If they can't fix the key system issues & increase parity, blow up the season. I hope the owners stand firm.

Blow up the whole damn league if you have to. I'll watch College ball.

I feel the same way

[The Duke]

You will never be able to "fix" free will.... If Player X WANTS to go to top 5 market he can...

What you can "fix" is ... if he wants to go to top 5 market, he needs to leave "X disclosed" amount of salary on the today to do so.

* The bigger the % loss, the more the players will choose not to go and stay with original teams.

[Homer Jay]

You never hear in the NFL about how players don't want to play in Buffalo.

That's the system we need.

One or two star players don't make much of a difference in the NFL. In the NBA its a huge impact.
Players don't want to be stuck in small markets on a losing team in basketball, and not being able to get their "brand" out there in the public's eye. They want their Nike and Gatorade money.

I'm quite sure Kevin Love's agent is telling everyday how he can get him so many more endorsement deals if he wasn't in Minny.

[MEDIC]

You will never be able to "fix" free will.... If Player X WANTS to go to top 5 market he can...

What you can "fix" is ... if he wants to go to top 5 market, he needs to leave "X disclosed" amount of salary on the today to do so.

* The bigger the % loss, the more the players will choose not to go and stay with original teams.

Of course. If you want to take 5 million a year less to play for the NYK over the Nuggets, go ahead, be my guest. Any player that leaves a significant amount of money on the table to play for a specific team, I respect.

However, the rules need to somehow deter a James/ Bosh/ D-Wade situation from instantaneously happening (or a Melo, Stoudamire, Deron Williams).

We also need to find a way deter guys from forcing their way out & leaving the old team with garbage.

It's just too easy for these guys to screw over fans that have supported them through the years (the minute they decide to become a drama queen & want instant gratification somewhere else).

[MEDIC]

You never hear in the NFL about how players don't want to play in Buffalo.

That's the system we need.

One or two star players don't make much of a difference in the NFL.

That's bull. You're telling me a top 3 quarterback or runningback won't make a difference?

Nobody can win on their own when they are competing against super teams. Even in the NBA. Look at Kobe & look at D-Wade. Their teams were poor when they didn't have the supporting cast.

You get rid of the superteam problem & everybody else has a little better chance. It'll give the fans of every small - mid market franchise some level of hope.

[MEDIC]

One or two star players don't make much of a difference in the NFL.

You bring up another good point. There need to be more rule changes. The stars have much to great of an advantage (hence increasing their "difference making").

- You can't play hard nosed defense in the NBA anymore.....it's a problem.
- Too many superstar calls

They've watered the damn game down so much that it's not even a team sport anymore. You just give the ball to your superstar & wait for him to get fouled. It's boring as sh*t.

Too big of a difference between the "haves" & "have nots".........both on the court & financially.

75% of the NBPA have to wake up & realize that they are being screwed over by both the league & the superstars. They bust their azz out there night in & night out. They work just as hard.

[LittleOzzy]

Interesting note, only one press conference area was set up today instead of the normal two for both the NBA and NBAPA.

[dhackett1565]

Interesting note, only one press conference area was set up today instead of the normal two for both the NBA and NBAPA.

Stop peddling your addictive hope, Ozzy!

[ItsDanger]

You know its bad when Im hoping for a season so the Raps can tank and get another high pick.

[Rhettmatic]

As I expected...

alanhahn Alan Hahn
This is no longer about taking from the players. This is now owners vs owners. Haves vs Have-Nots. The players need not be in the room.

[whoknows]

You never hear in the NFL about how players don't want to play in Buffalo.

That's the system we need.

One or two star players don't make much of a difference in the NFL. In the NBA its a huge impact.
Players don't want to be stuck in small markets on a losing team in basketball, and not being able to get their "brand" out there in the public's eye. They want their Nike and Gatorade money.

I'm quite sure Kevin Love's agent is telling everyday how he can get him so many more endorsement deals if he wasn't in Minny.

Remove the preferential superstar referee calls and there is not much of a difference.
These "superstar calls" in NBA are a result of the "Hollywood touch" in maximizing the NBA entertainment value... No wonder that any owner/fan would love to get or create as many superstars as possible in their teams.

The new system should make the superstars leave lots of money on the table if they want to get the easy ride to a ring.
While I have no respect for superstars like LeBJob & RuPaul that need the back of DWade to get rings, by leaving they screwed up their former teams. And old CBA allowed this to be possible.

[I_Like_Dirt]

No, the reason they aren't discussing it -- outside of the fact that they have, and continue to say, that it will be discussed after the CBA is signed -- is that it can't actually be done until the CBA is done and they have a firm idea of how that will or will not impact any revenue-sharing plan. So it's true that they can't agree on how that revenue sharing will be done under the new system. It's not true, however, that they don't agree it's needed. There's no chance that revenue sharing will not be included in the system going forward, and no chance that it will not be at a greater number than the previous $60M.

If there's no chance on any of these revenue-sharing issues, why don't they negotiate it into the CBA? Both the NFL and NHL did so. Why is the NBA so different that they deserve this different approach, and, more importantly, why do they care? If all they want to know is the CBA before they agree to revenue-sharing, then negotiate both at the same time. That way the owners know what revenues they're getting and the players know what revenues the other owners need in order to at least break even once their cut of revenue-sharing is factored in. What other possible motives can you think of that the NBA would take a different strategy in negotiations than either the NFL or NHL?

[floppymoose]

- You can't play hard nosed defense in the NBA anymore.....it's a problem.
- Too many superstar calls

Despite being a huge fan of good defense, I like the current defensive rules. What I'm looking for in my nba rules:

1) It should not be a wrestling match/strength contest - instead it should be skills oriented. That means defenders should not be allowed to initiate physical contact with the ball handler of any kind.
2) It should encourage team play. That means there should not be man-to-man requirements like in the old days. I'm very thankful they allow zone defenses now; it has removed the whole "4 guys stand on one side and let the team's best player go 1 on 1" problem.

Now I absolutely agree with you about the superstar calls. I think a lot of calls should simply not be made. A lot of the superstar calls should be no-calls. And on the other side, a lot of flops should be no-calls. You don't need to even go as far as calling a foul on the flopper, simply not calling a foul at all puts the flopper at a huge (and deserved) disadvantage.

[Abba Zabba]

You never hear in the NFL about how players don't want to play in Buffalo.

That's the system we need.

One or two star players don't make much of a difference in the NFL.

That's bull. You're telling me a top 3 quarterback or runningback won't make a difference?

Nobody can win on their own when they are competing against super teams. Even in the NBA. Look at Kobe & look at D-Wade. Their teams were poor when they didn't have the supporting cast.

You get rid of the superteam problem & everybody else has a little better chance. It'll give the fans of every small - mid market franchise some level of hope.

No he couldn't be more right. tom Brady can't even get on the field unless his defence makes a stop and can't compete at a high level without at the very least a decent offensive line.

Simply put there is no other professional sport in which one player can have nearly the same impact on the game as basketball (with the possible exception of the goalie in hockey). Just think about it.

[Reignman]

- You can't play hard nosed defense in the NBA anymore.....it's a problem.
- Too many superstar calls

Despite being a huge fan of good defense, I like the current defensive rules. What I'm looking for in my nba rules:

1) It should not be a wrestling match/strength contest - instead it should be skills oriented. That means defenders should not be allowed to initiate physical contact with the ball handler of any kind.
2) It should encourage team play. That means there should not be man-to-man requirements like in the old days. I'm very thankful they allow zone defenses now; it has removed the whole "4 guys stand on one side and let the team's best player go 1 on 1" problem.

Agree with the 2nd point but definitely not the 1st point.

First, if you allow no contact on the ball handler he's going to waltz in for layups or dunks on every play. If you have Dwayne Wade and you implement that kind of rule he's going to average 40 pts a night.

Personally, I want hand-checking back. That will force the ball handler to pass (increase team play) or create turnovers (entertainment for those who love dunks in the open court). It will also bring back big man post play because offenses will be deterred from becoming so perimeter oriented.

[MEDIC]

1) It should not be a wrestling match/strength contest - instead it should be skills oriented. That means defenders should not be allowed to initiate physical contact with the ball handler of any kind.

Can't say I agree with you there. Sounds pretty boring to me.

I appreciate hard nosed defense because it requires a commitment to hard work.

The "Bay Boy" Pistons are legendary. They would have never survived in todays NBA. That's a travesty.

It's just too easy for a guard to blow past a defender. Biomechanically, a person moving forward has much too large an advantage over a person moving backward. They need to even up the matchup.

[Ponchos]

Remove the preferential superstar referee calls and there is not much of a difference.
These "superstar calls" in NBA are a result of the "Hollywood touch" in maximizing the NBA entertainment value..

So the difference between Bargs and Michael Jordan is "superstar calls"?

[MEDIC]

First, if you allow no contact on the ball handler he's going to waltz in for layups or dunks on every play. If you have Dwayne Wade and you implement that kind of rule he's going to average 40 pts a night.

Personally, I want hand-checking back. That will force the ball handler to pass (increase team play) or create turnovers (entertainment for those who love dunks in the open court). It will also bring back big man post play because offenses will be deterred from becoming so perimeter oriented.

Exactly the way I see it.

[BLKMASS]

Thursday 1:23 p.m.

Well, that didn't take long. Reports are already starting to trickle in about things not going well at the meeting which started at noon EST. Alan Hahn of Newsday reports that inside of an hour in, he's not hearing positive feedback. Apparently the small-market owners have shown back up to bully and prod again, including reportedly Peter Holt, owner of the Spurs. SI.com reports that things sound "stalled." It's like we all keep waiting for the owners to blink in this game of chicken they're playing with themselves, and they just push the pedal harder.
http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssport ... 4/33216824


Hardline owners screwing up things once again.
Peter Holt? Really? This guy has had a pretty successful team over the last decade despite being in a small market, what exactly is he bitching about?

[MEDIC]

Remove the preferential superstar referee calls and there is not much of a difference.
These "superstar calls" in NBA are a result of the "Hollywood touch" in maximizing the NBA entertainment value..

So the difference between Bargs and Michael Jordan is "superstar calls"?

No idea where you're attempting to go with this one.

I can tell you without a doubt that Michael Jordan had to work much harder to earn his points than Lebron James does.

Now to be fair, MJ was also the beneficiary of "superstar calls", but with the no hand check rules, the superstar calls have become much more frequent & obvious.

I guess the point is, you could build a strong, defensive oriented team before (without 2+ superstars) & go far in the playoffs. It's pretty ,much impossible to do anymore.

The superstar calls have have increased the effectiveness of the star player & reduced the effectiveness (& value) of the solid role player.