Who's side are you on? (Lockout)

[MEDIC]

I'm kinda hoping the NBA folds & a new league takes its place with a mix of 1990 NBA, NCAA & Euroleague rules.

A tougher game with less divas.

Lets make a league that's actually a mens league with players that actually appreciate being paid a ton of dough to play a game.

[reck0n3r]

Also, it annoys me when people are trying to speak for the "average" baller who has a short lifespan in the NBA and has no other life skills, that this lockout is going to impact them the most.

That's fine with me, maybe they should use that cash to get an education in order to be a more productive part of society like the rest of us.

I don't know, maybe I'm crazy, but I have a hard time feeling bad for anyone who is virtually a millionaire by playing a sport, yet having a government step in to practically lower incomes of more essential professions like doctors. I guess in a way we only have ourselves to blame for letting professional sports become such a lucrative business to begin with. If I was an alien on the outside looking in, I'd really be perplexed at the priority list of a typical human being.

[reck0n3r]

I'm kinda hoping the NBA folds & a new league takes its place with a mix of 1990 NBA, NCAA & Euroleague rules.

A tougher game with less divas.

Lets make a league that's actually a mens league with players that actually appreciate being paid a ton of dough to play a game.

I'd rather have them play over scraps of food. It'd make them hungrier.

[MEDIC]

If I was an alien on the outside looking in, I'd really be perplexed at the priority list of a typical human being.

Yeah, we'd all look pretty F'ed up. It's a pretty funny concept, but you don't need to be an alien to realize this.

Just look at how celebrated Steve Jobs was after his passing. The guy invented a new aged walkman & somehow he's the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

We love to be entertained.......& don't appreciate the things that actually matter enough.

[MEDIC]

I'm kinda hoping the NBA folds & a new league takes its place with a mix of 1990 NBA, NCAA & Euroleague rules.

A tougher game with less divas.

Lets make a league that's actually a mens league with players that actually appreciate being paid a ton of dough to play a game.

I'd rather have them play over scraps of food. It'd make them hungrier.

There are lots of countries in the world where you could start this league & that could actually be the reality of the situation.

FOX network could air a decade of it as a "reality" TV show & make a ridiculous profit.

[reck0n3r]

If I was an alien on the outside looking in, I'd really be perplexed at the priority list of a typical human being.

Yeah, we'd all look pretty F'ed up. It's a pretty funny concept, but you don't need to be an alien to realize this.

Just look at how celebrated Steve Jobs was after his passing. The guy invented a new aged walkman & somehow he's the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

We love to be entertained.......& don't appreciate the things that actually matter enough.

Tells you how much faith and trust we should put into a free market economy.

[RapsFanInVA]

F*** em both.


I guess I have to start following hockey. I may even turn to soccer. I'm a sad panda.

[reck0n3r]

I'm kinda hoping the NBA folds & a new league takes its place with a mix of 1990 NBA, NCAA & Euroleague rules.

A tougher game with less divas.

Lets make a league that's actually a mens league with players that actually appreciate being paid a ton of dough to play a game.

I'd rather have them play over scraps of food. It'd make them hungrier.

There are lots of countries in the world where you could start this league & that could actually be the reality of the situation.

FOX network could air a decade of it as a "reality" TV show & make a ridiculous profit.

Screw fox, let's start one up on youtube. I'm sure we can gather enough wannabe pro ballers that would showboat for a large pepperoni pizza. Maybe we'd start with a slice (pizza pizza would be our sponsor, of course)

[sauga_raptor]

I just miss basketball. After such a great playoffs last year it is a shame that this whole mess is dragging on.

[reck0n3r]

I just miss basketball. After such a great playoffs last year it is a shame that this whole mess is dragging on.

I was actually wondering if the NBA had any plans to release entire seasons of teams on disk (ie: dvd or bluray)?

I could see myself shelling out decent coin to watch the good ole raps of yore. Kinda like how people buy a whole series of a tv show.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Initially, I wasn't on anyone's side. After all, this is just a fight between two groups of rich people, with no clear 'win' for the average fan.
Now, after the disclaimer of interest, the players are starting to piss me off. They should've taken this deal and we could've still had a 72 game season.

[Dr Positivity]

**** em all

But if you ask me, I'm more upset at the owners for not giving back as little as the shorter tax MLEs and no extend and trades

[jwood255]

i dont know about you.. but Im with the 1%.

Technically, both sides are the 1%.

Even the rookies who haven't been paid yet have it coming.

[Pchu]

Initially, I wasn't on anyone's side. After all, this is just a fight between two groups of rich people, with no clear 'win' for the average fan.
Now, after the disclaimer of interest, the players are starting to piss me off. They should've taken this deal and we could've still had a 72 game season.

You know if David Stern didn't pull the "you have to agree to this deal by Wed or else it's get worse" card, the players may accept or at the very least, they will still be negotiating.

The PA wants to save face at this point, they already lose the BRI front, they still want to have something. Something that they could sell to the players and say "Look we still got this." But Stern bullys them and they don't feel like being bullied.

When you look at it the deal now, they are not that far apart. They settled the BRI issue which is a big issue, and the system issue is pretty easy, owners just need to throw NBPA a bone and they will go away.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Initially, I wasn't on anyone's side. After all, this is just a fight between two groups of rich people, with no clear 'win' for the average fan.
Now, after the disclaimer of interest, the players are starting to piss me off. They should've taken this deal and we could've still had a 72 game season.

You know if David Stern didn't pull the "you have to agree to this deal by Wed or else it's get worse" card, the players may accept or at the very least, they will still be negotiating.

The PA wants to save face at this point, they already lose the BRI front, they still want to have something. Something that they could sell to the players and say "Look we still got this." But Stern bullys them and they don't feel like being bullied.

When you look at it the deal now, they are not that far apart. They settled the BRI issue which is a big issue, and the system issue is pretty easy, owners just need to throw NBPA a bone and they will go away.

But what if Stern and the Owners don't like being bullied either, and instead of being a voice agaisnt his hardliners in order to offer more concessions to players, Stern becomes as emboldened as they hardliners, and other owners as well. All we've heard from is the plantiff's lawyer, and because he's new and shiny, you had the media simply posting his diatribe verbatim, and people looking at it at statements of fact, instead of what it is; their argument. I'm sure Stern's lawyers have their arguments too, and who knows what type of maneuvuer or counter suit they have planned. And if this move fails, players will have lost a year or more, and have no leg to stand on, then the owners will really get what they want. Owners may have asked for a lot of concessions in light of the old CBA, but they still came a far way off of their position and their official offers to the players were progressively better. Had the players even made an offer to the union, no. Oh because Stern said they wouldn't accept it? Didn't Hunter tell Stern, the players would never agree - how is it that Hunter can Say "players would never agree to that" and then say the other side wasn't willing to bargain.

And Players can't say they did all they could to try and get a deal, when they wouldn't even put a deal to their membership, or make a formal offer to the league.

If Boies thinks Stern is going to fear the consequences and call him to negotiate with him the guy who called him a plantation owner, after he worked for 25+ years lifting the league to never before seen limits, and partnered with the players to make them some of the most sought after spokespersons. No. If Stern is calling anyone it's more lawyers, and other owners like Paul Allen and the like to Boost up the war chest. Now, outside of NBPA rhetoric, it won't be his fault when young layers families hurt, or have their houses foreclosed on, so he won't worry a bit. To Stern, I'm sure he feels they submitted their best shot at a deal, and the failure is on Billy. He gave him something to take to his membership, and instead, they did this, hoping this gives them leverage. I doubt Kessler and Boies hear from Stern at all, unless it's counter suit. The Union, already has a detailed version of the Leagues next offer, it was included with the last offer.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Also, anyone know if the players are successful and are awarded trebel damages if that wipes slate clean and both sides are able to go their separate ways. Because if you add up all salary commitments under the old CBA, it may be worth it to pay a few Billion, and then restart the league without current players.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Stern and the owners might not like getting bullied, but they definitely weren't getting bullied here. This is a labour negotiation and they decided to avoid any real negotiation. Eventually, it worked and they got almost everything they wanted and then refused to offer up any deals that would have a remote chance of getting passed by membership if put to a vote. I know people here like the think that the majority of players would have just accepted anything, but if you've been given a contract offer where absolutely everything gets worse for you includeing a ~20% reduction in salary, at some point you're going to be asking why you even bothered 'negotiating' in the first place.

Personally, the way the owners have handled things, I'm starting to think they've wanted to push things this far all along. Regardless of what concessions they got beforehand, they've been wanting to cancel at least a significant portion of the season to see how much more they can get from the deal. Granted, I'm sure there are some owners who didn't want this, but collectively, I think the majority agreed this was the best course of action.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Initially, I wasn't on anyone's side. After all, this is just a fight between two groups of rich people, with no clear 'win' for the average fan.
Now, after the disclaimer of interest, the players are starting to piss me off. They should've taken this deal and we could've still had a 72 game season.

You know if David Stern didn't pull the "you have to agree to this deal by Wed or else it's get worse" card, the players may accept or at the very least, they will still be negotiating.

The PA wants to save face at this point, they already lose the BRI front, they still want to have something. Something that they could sell to the players and say "Look we still got this." But Stern bullys them and they don't feel like being bullied.

When you look at it the deal now, they are not that far apart. They settled the BRI issue which is a big issue, and the system issue is pretty easy, owners just need to throw NBPA a bone and they will go away.

Here's the thing. the players aren't going to get as good a deal as the last cba. considering the utter lack of leverage the players have, this was actually a decent deal. Instead, the players decide to kick the fans in the balls thinking they'll still be there when the lockout ends.
I already had a really bad taste in my mouth with what happened with Lebron and Bosh to Miami, then Carmelo to NY. Then Chris Paul slowly starting his whining.....something like this does not endear players to their fans.
If we're going to lose a season because of this bullsh*t, I hope the players get publicly butt fu*ked into a 30/70 BRI deal with a hard cap and unguaranteed contracts.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Stern and the owners might not like getting bullied, but they definitely weren't getting bullied here. This is a labour negotiation and they decided to avoid any real negotiation. Eventually, it worked and they got almost everything they wanted and then refused to offer up any deals that would have a remote chance of getting passed by membership if put to a vote. I know people here like the think that the majority of players would have just accepted anything, but if you've been given a contract offer where absolutely everything gets worse for you includeing a ~20% reduction in salary, at some point you're going to be asking why you even bothered 'negotiating' in the first place.

Personally, the way the owners have handled things, I'm starting to think they've wanted to push things this far all along. Regardless of what concessions they got beforehand, they've been wanting to cancel at least a significant portion of the season to see how much more they can get from the deal. Granted, I'm sure there are some owners who didn't want this, but collectively, I think the majority agreed this was the best course of action.

Except, according to the players, this isn't about the BRI but more about 'system issues'.
If you're the players union, you accept defeat now and then get them back the next lockout, when you can use the improved economy to your advantage.
The owners have been very, very prepared for any eventuality. I can't hate on someone for being prepared. The owners might have anticipated this, but it was the players who refused to vote on the deal and then disbanded the union, fu*king all the fans inthe process out of a season.
I'm not pro-owner, but I am decidedly becoming anti-player.

[I_Like_Dirt]

(a) 'System issues' was all the players had left after they gave the owners everything they wanted in terms of money.

(b) Why would the owners take a different stance at the next round of negotiations if they'd already proven they could get everything they wanted if they just refused to negotiate and forced the players to accept everything they wanted?

(c) How can the players use an improved economy to their advantage? Who says the economy will be better by that time?

(d) How exactly is a bad economy something the NBA should be worrying about? The NBA is coming off record revenues, increased ratings and is starting to see the tip of the iceberg when it comes to TV revenues being renegotiated upwards. How much of a better situation in terms of revenues can the NBA possibly improve where the owners would suddenly feel generous enough to change that BRI split?

(e) This ultimately has nothing to do with the NBA not having enough revenues, it has everything to do with them wanting as much as they can get, along with the NBA having an absolutely awful distribution of revenues amongst its owners. The Lakers, Raptors, Celtics, Bulls and Knicks have all seen their revenues and profits skyrocket recently. This adds a lot of pressure on small market teams as BRI goes up meaning salaries go up while only a few teams are reaping the benefits of increased BRI. The players spread the wealth around as increase BRI increases the amount of all of their contracts. For the owners, BRI going up doesn't mean they make more money unless they're the ones responsible for that increased BRI.

(f) The likely outcome if the players just take the offer isn't that they get to negotiate things upwards the next time around, it's that the profits of the richest clubs will continue to grow which will continue adding pressure to small market teams which will mean the owners will be back next time asking for even more and taking the sam hardline stance since they have precedent that such tactics work. Eventually, the union has to stick up for itself a little bit or there is absolutely no sense in spending all that money on union dues and legal fees.

(g) Just because system issues sunk negotiations here, what guarantees were there that the owners wouldn't have presented more 'terms' after the players accepted the system issues up for discussion? It's happened several times in negotiations, most recently with the owners offering up the 50% and the players saying that might be acceptable if certain system issues went their way only to have the owners back off and say that if the system issues went the players' way they needed the players to take 47% of BRI.

(h) While the players certainly could have accepted it, why on earth do you think the owners were willing to make such minor details deal-breakers? If the owners are willing to do that, it definitely suggests that they haven't really wanted an agreement all along and have been hoping to escalate things further, which also suggests that (g) would have been the case even had the players caved.