Looking forward to 2012-13

nevetsov · Post #1 » by **nevetsov** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:42 am

So it's looking like nuclear winter is well on its way.. What does that mean for us looking forward?

2012-13

Nash - uncontracted
Brooks - uncontracted but potentially restricted
Pietrus - uncontracted
Hill - uncontracted
Lopez - uncontracted but potentially restricted
Dowdell - uncontracted but potentially restricted
Lawal - uncontracted but potentially restricted

Under contract we will have:

SG Dudley (4 years)
SF Childress (3 years)
PF Frye (3 years)
PF Warrick (expiring $4.6m)
PF Morris (3 years)
C Gortat (2 years)

$28.6m + Morris, so a shade over $30m.

We could nab a top flight PG and have a very solid starting lineup:

PG, Dowdell
Dudley
Childress
Morris, Frye
Gortat, Lawal, Siler

Trade Warrick's expiring for a useful $4m wing and draft another good wing, and we could surprise.

All of those guys should be entering their primes too.

MarJJMar · Post #2 » by **MarJJMar** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:24 am

That starting lineup is terrible, not solid.

You could add Chris Paul and that would still be one of the bottom 7 teams in the league.

You have Dudley and Childress starting, likely Frye too and your backup center is a 6'8 PF that has not done anything in the NBA or preseason.

Basically on that roster there are only 2 starting caliber players in that mysterious PG and Gortat. That does not surprise anyone.

Warrick has to be traded for an expiring before and Childress amnestied plus Lawal, Dowdell, Siler etc gone so the Suns are left with Dudley, Frye, Gortat and Morris and can sign several upper class FAs.

DRK · Post #3 » by **DRK** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:25 pm

^ trust Mr Positive over here.

Yeah nah that starting lineup is a good mis of offence and defence. I like Childress starting as he is the only player who constantly looks to drive. With him at SF and Dudley at Sg, they would complement each other well.

Hopefully we can pick up a good young point guard. Someone like Maynor, Bledsoe, or Bradley who would benefit from getting heavy minutes in an up-tempo system

GrantHill · Post #4 » by **GrantHill** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:48 pm

Neither Paul nor Howard or Williams will come to Phoenix. I like Gortat as our future C but we don't have anything around him . I think Brooks, Dudley, Childress, Morris and Frye would be the perfect bench, so we need three starters. I still think Steve will resign here, even if the 2011-2012 season is lost. (Not sure about Grant here) Bring him back on a cheap deal but decrease hisminutes (of course) We just have to look at some RFA in 2012, where it's sure that their teams won't match any offer. Perfect examples would be O.J. Mayo or Landry Fields. Both could be decent starters. (I would still kill to see Gallinari together with Nash.

) We still have the chance to draft a very nice PF who rounds up our rotation.

Nash / Brooks
Mayo / Dudley
Fields (Hill?) / Childress
Rookie / Morris
Gortat / Frye

RunDogGun · Post #5 » by **RunDogGun** » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:57 pm

I would still love to resign Hill, but I want him running the second unit, which we should have done last year. Childress should have been used more, once his finger was healed. If we would have resigned Lou, instead of Warrick, we could have started Childress, with Lou on the bench. That way we had the all out hustle that both bring with both units.

I would have started Nash, Dudley, Chilldress, Fyre, and Gortat. It wouldn't have been Los Soles' four out one in, but it would have worked well. Then off the bench, you have Goran (later Brooks), Peitrus, Hill( who runs the offense for that group), Lou, and Lopez.

Phystic · Post #6 » by **Phystic** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:04 am

I have no idea how you see that as a good starting lineup or anything remotely close to a "surprise" team. Dudley, Childress, Morris, Gortat and Mystery PG? Dudley is solid but he's the definition of Role Player. Chidlress does a couple things well and a few things poorly. Morris has done NOTHING to even get him PT let alone a starting role on a "good" team. Gortat is a very solid C but not a center piece. Why would any top flight FA sign here with that as our roster? We can't get someone to come here now with Nash and Hill here.

We need to dump everyone but Dudley, Gortat, and Frye. And I'd be ok with keeping Childress, for the bench , and Morris for potential/youth.

Otherwise, it's time to rip this team apart and restart. I don't want Brooks here, he had one good season shooting the ball in Houston because there was no other offensive player on the team once Yao went down and now people see him as this great young pg. He is a terrible passer , an erratic shooter, a bad defender, and a questionable decision maker. Goran was the perfect player for a PG of the future. He brought everything to the table, he just couldn't showcase himself without minutes. That trade is up there with the Kurt Thomas deal as a costly move.

Lopez I would debate keeping depending what the Training Staff has to say about his back. But strictly as a backup or spot starter. Lawal I like, and would like to see him in the rotation at some point. Just to give him a shot. I see him as a better version of Lou.

So, Pietrus, Warrick, and Siler can all be let go. RoLo, Nash, Brooks and Hill are all trade chips. Ship them out for youth/picks. It's time to dedicate ourselves to a rebuild. I know Sarver won't do it, and a lot of fareweather fans won't like it but it's necesssary. This team has fallen off BIG time, and despite Nash's continued brilliance, it's time to cut ties and get what we can for him while sending him to a better situation.

Next two drafts(depending on how this draft is handled and who actually enters the draft) should be stacked, we need to get picks and just tank to try and get some GOOD youth.

bigfoot · Post #7 » by **bigfoot** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:38 am

2012 Suns salaries on the books (excluding Warrick who should be waived)

$28M Total team salary
$7.3M Gortat
$6.5M Childress
$6.0M Frye
$4.3M Dudley
$2.0M Morris
$2.0M 2012 Rookie draft pick

That means the Suns will be $47M below the the expected salary cap of $75M. What could you do with $47M ?

Offer Chris Paul the max salary ($14M) or Derron Williams max salary ($16M) or Russell Westbrook ($14M) or Nash ($10M)
Offer Dwight Howard the max salary ($16M) or Kevin Love ($14M) or Beasley ($10M) or Brook Lopez ($14M)
Offer Eric Gordon the max salary ($14M) or OJ Mayo ($10M) or ??

Get an all-star point guard, an all-star PF or C, and an all-star SG. There is enough $$$ to get high quality players at three spots and combined with the existing roster you have a very, very respectable team. Sign a few scrub players to fill in the rest of the roster.

DRK · Post #8 » by **DRK** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:52 am

Expected salary cap of 75 million? What did I miss?

thamadkant · Post #9 » by **thamadkant** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:11 am

Yeah

whom ever said the starting line up of
Gortat, Childress, Dudley is a decent lineup is in DENIAL mode.

Gortat and Dudley are 6th/7th best player type on Contending teams.

I like both players a lot, but they are role players... good role players... and that is all.

If no season, that average 3 year record for draft ORDER is a SICK way to rub salt on the Suns wounds.... pathetic.

I would shop Gortat around for a top 10-12 pick if I was GM... need a FRESH start, some here will say "No" and over value Gortat, but a 28 year old Good role player Center on a rebuilding team WITHOUT high potential youth is useless.

A young team with 3-4 high picks can use him and may want to part with their high pick to add veterans and make a run for playoffs.... this is where Suns come in.

Markieff Morris is Suns currently the Suns "hope" to be a corner stone is perfect example why the Suns need fresh start.

Hope for Lawal, Childress etc to "explode" and be relevant key players for the future is perfect example of grasping at straws.... other fans clearly see this.... some here needs to as well.

RunDogGun · Post #10 » by **RunDogGun** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:07 am

I can see the argument about Gortat, but we know what we have, on a decent contract. That 10-12 th pick can turn out to suck. To me it is like being on a game show, and having the option of a reliable fairly new pickup, or door number three. When in the end, I really need a reliable pickup.

I don't see the reason to get rid of all our role players, just for the possibility of young good talent. Especially when our team sucks at evaluating young draft picks. So until our scouting team does a better job, getting more draft picks at the expense of consistent players, seems silly.

bigfoot · Post #11 » by **bigfoot** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:16 pm

DRK wrote:Expected salary cap of 75 million? What did I miss?

Watch at 1:16 of this video from the NBA front office

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C4zaisI ... r_embedded

Remember the BRI is basically agreed upon at 50/50. It's player movement vs competitive balance that has the two sides at an impasse.

MarJJMar · Post #12 » by **MarJJMar** » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:51 pm

It is not 75M$. That was the probably LUXURY TAX cap 3 years from now.

bigfoot · Post #13 » by **bigfoot** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:20 am

MarJJMar wrote:It is not 75M$. That was the probably LUXURY TAX cap 3 years from now.

I stand corrected. In year one it will be $66M. So only $38M in cap space for 11-12 season. Still a fair chunk of change that should be able to entice two all-star caliber players ($14M each) with $10M left over for another quality starter.

nevetsov · Post #14 » by **nevetsov** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:25 am

thamadkant wrote:Gortat and Dudley are 6th/7th best player type on Contending teams.

Gortat 6th/7th best on a contending team? he's 6th/7th best at his position, maybe even better.

DirtyDez · Post #15 » by **DirtyDez** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:17 am

OJ Mayo... Our future is bleak, if we're gonna overppay for someone it should be a player who has super star potential. Maybe draft Gilchrist if he slips at SF to go along with Mayo and a physical frontcourt with Gortat/Morris.

YouTube · Post #16 » by **Kerrsed** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:27 am

bigfoot wrote:I stand corrected. In year one it will be $66M. So only $38M in cap space for 11-12 season. Still a fair chunk of change that should be able to entice two all-star caliber players ($14M each) with $10M left over for another quality starter.

You know all the players know that $arver is one of the top driving forces as to why they arnt playing right now, and when they do, will be getting screwed hard in the ass!

There have been reports of players not wearing Jordans anymore, as he is also one of the "Hard Line" owners ($arver/Ferry/Jordan). Players know about $arvers reputation, and now with all the reports of him wanting to screw the players even more, nobody will be looking forward to signing here.

Only way to get an all-star caliber player is to start stockpiling draft picks and CREATE some all-stars..... or have $arver sell the team.

MarJJMar · Post #17 » by **MarJJMar** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:08 am

Why would you want to tank for Myck Kabongo? I like him a great deal but umm I think I will go with Drummond/Davis/Lamb/Gilchrist/Barnes first in the tanking department.

thamadkant · Post #18 » by **thamadkant** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:08 am

Sarver's influence on getting player shouldnt be that high...

the GM in the end.... the GM's negotiation skills and recruitment skills will be the key aspect.

That and a max contract.... Sarver in the end sits in the office and make phone calls, but the GM, depending if he has the balls, will call the shots that is good for the team.

YouTube · Post #19 » by **Kerrsed** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:21 am

thamadkant wrote:Sarver in the end sits in the office and make phone calls, but the GM, depending if he has the balls, will call the shots that is good for the team.

Isnt that why all our GM's leave? Issues with the owner having too much control and not instilling that trust in a GM? Sarver has always stepped on the GM's toes, and has the final decision on every move we make. He is the one pushing players out (JJ/Matrix/Amare/Ect.) for his reasons, its not the GM doing it.

Im just sayin' ..........

bigfoot · Post #20 » by **bigfoot** » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:41 pm

Kerrsed wrote:You know all the players know that $arver is one of the top driving forces as to why they arnt playing right now, and when they do, will be getting screwed hard in the ass!

You forget one thing ... "SHOW ME THE MONEY". Nash left Dallas because Cuban wouldn't do it. Amare left Phoenix because Sarver wouldn't do it. When it all boils down to it the NBA players just want to be paid the big bucks. Would it be easier if Sarver didn't own the team. Hell yeah. But players follow the smell of money until they get too old and then they chase rings.