Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread III

Post #1521 » by **ranger001** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:54 pm

Yeah you're right Before last year(58 wins). the Heat had 15(07-08), 43(08-09), 47(09-10) wins.

Wade is a true franchise player.

tecumseh18 · Post #1522 » by **tecumseh18** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:18 pm

ranger001 wrote:Yeah you're right Before last year(58 wins). the Heat had 15(07-08), 43(08-09), 47(09-10) wins.

I thought it was both years, but was too lazy to check.

Wade is a true franchise player.

And Riley is a franchise GM. He kept Wade happy and the Heat in the playoffs, while divesting himself of virtually all contracts beyond 2010. Amazing.

Ponchos · Post #1523 » by **Ponchos** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:19 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:
J-Roc wrote:Why would the majority of players want the top players to take a bigger % of the cap?

So that the top players are willing to collectively bargain along with them and fight for things like an MLE for tax teams?

Actually I think this is something that is intended to help both the guys at the top and the bottom.

If you make it so that teams can only afford one max guy, then in theory you should have a slightly higher number of teams trying to compete to win a title. If there are more teams trying to win a title, you'll see more teams competing for MLE type players and vet minimum guys, etc.

*edit* It could also curb the behavior of teams trying to cut down massively on salary in order to land more than one superstar in a future free-agency period (which is another big negative for the NBA middle and lower class).

Ponchos · Post #1524 » by **Ponchos** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:21 pm

tecumseh18 wrote:Anyway, it looks the the owners are moving towards presenting an acceptable deal. Will this finally retire the "dumb, uneducated Negros being bamboozled by their slick lawyers" meme?

I haven't wanted to say anything, but it's been pretty bad in this thread, and in journalism (or whatever you call what Simmons does) generally.

Sadly, I don't think anything will kill that meme. I agree with you that it's been very prevalent in this thread and it IS disgusting.

BorisDK1 · Post #1525 » by **BorisDK1** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:49 pm

Ponchos wrote:Actually I think this is something that is intended to help both the guys at the top and the bottom.

If you make it so that teams can only afford one max guy, then in theory you should have a slightly higher number of teams trying to compete to win a title. If there are more teams trying to win a title, you'll see more teams competing for MLE type players and vet minimum guys, etc.

*edit* It could also curb the behavior of teams trying to cut down massively on salary in order to land more than one superstar in a future free-agency period (which is another big negative for the NBA middle and lower class).

I don't think the issue is so much teams affording only one max guy, but teams having a more difficult time acquiring those guys through free agency (like Miami). I don't think the league wants to discourage teams from adding max guys through trade or through retaining them via Bird Rights.

Ponchos · Post #1526 » by **Ponchos** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:53 pm

BorisDK1 wrote:
Ponchos wrote:Actually I think this is something that is intended to help both the guys at the top and the bottom.

If you make it so that teams can only afford one max guy, then in theory you should have a slightly higher number of teams trying to compete to win a title. If there are more teams trying to win a title, you'll see more teams competing for MLE type players and vet minimum guys, etc.

*edit* It could also curb the behavior of teams trying to cut down massively on salary in order to land more than one superstar in a future free-agency period (which is another big negative for the NBA middle and lower class).

I don't think the issue is so much teams affording only one max guy, but teams having a more difficult time acquiring those guys through free agency (like Miami). I don't think the league wants to discourage teams from adding max guys through trade or through retaining them via Bird Rights.

Right but this is a player proposal, not a league one. Or am I mistaken?

BorisDK1 · Post #1527 » by **BorisDK1** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:55 pm

Ponchos wrote:Right but this is a player proposal, not a league one. Or am I mistaken?

It seems to be a player proposal, which strikes me as a bit odd. Maybe they're actually trying to partner with the league to buck the SuperDouche teams trend?

Ponchos · Post #1528 » by **Ponchos** » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:57 pm

BorisDK1 wrote:
Ponchos wrote:Right but this is a player proposal, not a league one. Or am I mistaken?

It seems to be a player proposal, which strikes me as a bit odd. Maybe they're actually trying to partner with the league to buck the SuperDouche teams trend?

Right, which is why I listed possible reasons that preventing the super teams would help the middle and lower class in the NBA.

MEDIC · Post #1529 » by **MEDIC** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:17 am

Consequence wrote:The 30% max rate could be argued to be a positive for competitive balance, as Boris said, as can the higher qualifying offers (if a RFA has a higher QO from his team, makes him less likely to change teams to get a slight raise). Basically, the players are asking for these because their movement to other teams is being restricted, and I don't think that increasing the likelihood that a player will stick with a team for longer is bad.

Yes......& no.

Sure it helps keep some allstars on their crappy teams. It also makes it even more difficult for those teams to get off the treadmill & add decent talent.

The problem is, in some cases it will keep the wrong allstars on the crappier teams.

Now we have to pay a guy like Chris Bosh or Joe Johnson or Rudy Gay an even larger % of the cap to keep them around. It'll either be that or lose your only marketing chip. Most teams will elect to pay the money. I definitely don't want to keep a guy like CB4 for 30% of the payroll.

This still doesn't prevent guys from signing the deal, then forcing their way out 1-2 years later.

If they go ahead with this, they should definitely do away with S&T scenarios.

What this may do is force teams to more seriously consider trading their allstar 2 years prior to their contract ending (if they feel the player is not a true franchise player......much like Deron) so that they can get decent return & start fresh. (I personally don't see this as a bad thing because I always felt we should have traded CB4 2 years prior to the end of his contract)

If you have an undeniable franchise player on your hands, this rule may help.

J-Roc · Post #1530 » by **J-Roc** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:26 am

MEDIC has is right. What a disaster if we had to pay Bosh the big dough. Or you watch and see BC pay out his boy Bargnani.

S.W.A.N · Post #1531 » by **S.W.A.N** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:22 am

Don't wanna jinx it, but the rumour mill sounds positive tonight...

plainballing · Post #1532 » by **plainballing** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:11 am

MEDIC wrote:
Yes......& no.

Sure it helps keep some allstars on their crappy teams. It also makes it even more difficult for those teams to get off the treadmill & add decent talent.

The problem is, in some cases it will keep the wrong allstars on the crappier teams.

Now we have to pay a guy like Chris Bosh or Joe Johnson or Rudy Gay an even larger % of the cap to keep them around. It'll either be that or lose your only marketing chip. Most teams will elect to pay the money. I definitely don't want to keep a guy like CB4 for 30% of the payroll.

This still doesn't prevent guys from signing the deal, then forcing their way out 1-2 years later.

If they go ahead with this, they should definitely do away with S&T scenarios.

What this may do is force teams to more seriously consider trading their allstar 2 years prior to their contract ending (if they feel the player is not a true franchise player......much like Deron) so that they can get decent return & start fresh. (I personally don't see this as a bad thing because I always felt we should have traded CB4 2 years prior to the end of his contract)

If you have an undeniable franchise player on your hands, this rule may help.

That's why the Melo and Deron trade is so much better than the Bosh trade. We got something out of the Bosh trade but shall we traded Bosh earlier we should get some talent in return...

bboyskinnylegs · Post #1533 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:08 am

WojYahooNBA wrote:
Why'd it take so long to deal w/ system issues tonight? Players pushed for return to 51% of revenue split, source says; Stern, Holt refused.

Attorney Jeffrey Kessler joined the talks via speaker phone to make 51-49 proposal to league, source says. Stern, Peter Holt shot it down.

This happened several hours ago, source says. The two sides left the room, huddled and talks resumed again.

The players are clearly trying to feel out how much leverage the filing of federal suits against the NBA have gained them in the process.

keuken_4 · Post #1534 » by **keuken_4** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:21 am

lock out OVER !

WOJ:
The NBA and players have reached an agreement on a deal, source says. The season will start on Dec. 25.

Mr.Raptorsingh · Post #1535 » by **Mr.Raptorsingh** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:21 am

BREAKING NEWS: Deal has been tentatively agreed on

Adrian Wojnarowski
The NBA and players have reached an agreement on a deal, source says. The season will start on Dec. 25.

Mr.Raptorsingh · Post #1536 » by **Mr.Raptorsingh** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:22 am

F*CK YEAH!

Wait a minute.....

Adrian Wojnarowski
The players will have to reform the union, and the 450-plus players will still have to ratify a deal to make it official.

Can we assume they'll vote "Yay" to ratify it?

Cool-Hand-Luke · Post #1537 » by **Cool-Hand-Luke** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:24 am

WOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

MichaelScarn23 · Post #1538 » by **MichaelScarn23** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:24 am

Mr.Raptorsingh · Post #1539 » by **Mr.Raptorsingh** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:25 am

Cool-Hand-Luke wrote:WOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Damn right. Everybody else has fallen a sleep :lol:

I commend you my friend, even though I have no clue why I'm up so late...probably due to stupidity.

Cool-Hand-Luke · Post #1540 » by **Cool-Hand-Luke** » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:27 am

Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:
Cool-Hand-Luke wrote:WOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Damn right. Everybody else has fallen a sleep I commend you my friend, even though I have no clue why I'm up so late...probably due to stupidity.

lol yeah by chance I check twitter and everyone is breaking the news. My birthday is this weekend and this is a great way to start off the festivities.