Ok Real Question - Why not let Lebron Be Magic

CablexDeadpool · Post #1 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:26 am

One thing I always wondered, why not get a forward, like a Gerald Wallace or Ariza, and get a low post defensive center, and just forget about the need for a 3 ball in the starting line up and just let Lebron run point?

You won't give up defense, lets put it this way, trying to find 3 point shooter to insert in the starting lineup to compliment The BIG 3 is futile, because most 3 point shooters in this league have glaring flaws, like playing defense or rebounding.

Let the forward guard the best player and let lebron guard the sg, let Wade guard the PG and just run your team through Lebron, make Bosh the main offensive weapon. Wade can be the slasher and closer like he is now.

Continue to play the fast aggressive pressure D. Continue to run the 50 million pick and rolls and basic triangle.

Lebron needs the ball in his hands to do what Lebron does, lets just give him ball in his hands and tell him to run the show, rebound, score layups, pass the ball to Wade.

Then have the utility players who do ballhandling, 3 point shooting, high energy guys, just come off the bench.

jmbflame21 · Post #2 » by **jmbflame21** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:45 am

Because that's unorthodox and thinking outside the box..... and that's not how Spo thinks.

CablexDeadpool · Post #3 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:59 am

jmbflame21 wrote:Because that's unorthodox and thinking outside the box..... and that's not how Spo thinks.

It makes so much sense because we always say we don't need a point guard sense we have lebron and wade

and we say we don't need to change our offense.. so if we got a point guard we will have to change our offense

so lets just get a wing and a center and keep things the same....

it sounds reasonable to me :roll:

EscapoTHB · Post #4 » by **EscapoTHB** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:20 am

I don't think Lebron is a very good PG is the main reason. He doesn't know how to start the offense quickly enough, and he doesn't really rip and run like Magic and Kidd do. He's pretty much like some sort of Larry Bird/Karl Malone hybrid.

twix2500 · Post #5 » by **twix2500** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:15 am

Because Lebron greatest ability is his scoring not passing. He is not a point guard, he is not Magic. Yes he is a great passer for a forward, not a great passer for a point. Magic Johnson was a great passer for a point guard and NBA history. Lebron is a point forward not a point guard. His greatest asset is Lebron's scoring ability, so you have to make that his number one utility, everything else come secondary. Its the same thing about Wade, yes Wade played well and showed promise as a point guard in his rookie season, but when put in his natural position, thats when he tap his full potential. With Lebron and Wade we dont need a great passing point guard but at least a good one. Someone who can play on the ball and off the ball. And defend opposing point guards. This is why many of us want Hinrich he fits the mode perfectly. Hinrich can run a offense, get Lebron, Wade and Bosh the ball and play off the ball when Wade or Lebron are creating.

Post #6 » by **LEIF** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:34 am

on one hand I agree that our best lineup will never be a conventional PG-SG-SF-PF-C lineup, and with the right mix you could get away with our version of a "Ron Harper" in the starting unit. that being said you just cant play Lebron at PG exclusively for an entire season. Besides the fact that it takes away some of our biggest strengths as a TEAM, It would also force our two players to chase around quick PGs all season long and that would hurt them offensively, if not in the short term by the end of the season.

In crunchtime of the playoffs, or a specific 7 games series I am all for Lebron guarding DRose etc but for a full schedule, that is just not realizing what it takes to play at the level the best players on planet Earth play to on a nightly basis.

A great example is during the MJ-Pippen era neither would guard Timmie Hardaway exclusively in the regular season, but come playoff time they would shift over and stifle us.

RJM · Post #7 » by **RJM** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:20 am

LeBron played PG briefly as a rookie and sophomore and it didn't work out; they didn't actually start winning games until Jeff McInnis came to town in 2005 and LeBron finally had a point guard to work with. Then again, that could have also been attributed to no other real talent being on those teams, so I think you could make a case for the position.

Wade2k6 · Post #8 » by **Wade2k6** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:33 am

That may be true, but LeBron also played some of the best ball of his career when Mo Williams went down in 2010 and he was forced to play PG.

Lord Leoshes · Post #9 » by **Lord Leoshes** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:40 am

I like the idea with the right starting swing man, but the biggest problem is no one will want to chase after quick, small PGs.

G Hill, & T Mack are some of the closes, & realistic options.

CablexDeadpool · Post #10 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:00 am

twix2500 wrote:Because Lebron greatest ability is his scoring not passing. He is not a point guard, he is not Magic. Yes he is a great passer for a forward, not a great passer for a point. Magic Johnson was a great passer for a point guard and NBA history. Lebron is a point forward not a point guard. His greatest asset is Lebron's scoring ability, so you have to make that his number one utility, everything else come secondary. Its the same thing about Wade, yes Wade played well and showed promise as a point guard in his rookie season, but when put in his natural position, thats when he tap his full potential. With Lebron and Wade we dont need a great passing point guard but at least a good one. Someone who can play on the ball and off the ball. And defend opposing point guards. This is why many of us want Hinrich he fits the mode perfectly. Hinrich can run a offense, get Lebron, Wade and Bosh the ball and play off the ball when Wade or Lebron are creating.

First and foremost Lebron greatest ability is dominating his team. It is not scoring, it is not passing, it is dominating his entire team and making his teammates better. That is his ability, he can not do that without the ball, he needs the ball, he needs to have the ball at all times and touch the ball at all times, a ball dominating point guard is no good for that. Lebron isn't a great scorer like a Kobe or D Wade, you not just gonna give Lebron the ball and tell him to go score.

Lebron and Wade can not play off the ball with each other and have a point guard. It's they suck at it. Lebron and Wade are ball dominant players, meaning they need the ball at all times to play effectively.

Lebron needs a defined role and not share the ball with anyone else. He sucked because he had to do everything while making sure he isn't taking away from Wade.

It doesn't matter if they have a point guard, they don't need point guards, they are better off without having a point guard, because if they did have a point guard, they would stand around on the wings and then go into an Iso when they get the ball.

So lets be smart and realize, that having 3 point shooter or a point guard, doesn't really matter, lets cut out the middle man and just play Big.

Lebron and Wade are our point guards. Lebron runs the offense, D Wade runs the pick and roll, Bosh is the main option. And get a defensive Small Forward to guard the opposing teams best player.

Hinrich is overrated and is garbage and is terrible and he can't break down a defense and he can't keep up with Derrick Rose, Rondo, Deron Williams and Jameer Nelson so no. He will basically do what Bibby did, bring the ball up, and give it to Lebron to start the offense.

So it's either or, either you get a real point guard that does real point guard stuff, ie Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Meaning Wade and Lebron are off ball and actually have to learn how to play off ball.

Or you gonna get a glorified ball giver to Lebron and call him our Point Guard. Which is a waste of a player, because all he gonna do is call a play and hand it off to lebron and wade.

Or you can just say screw it we don't really need a point guard, and say lebron and wade, run the plays for us.

Lebron can run plays, he is at his best with the ball in his hands and him making decisions. He doesn't need a point guard to actually run plays, Mo Williams didn't run crap on the Cavs, he was basically a shooting guard. And Lebron had his best season when he was de facto PG for the Cavs. Wade is best when he running pick and rolls. We really don't need a point guard to just hand the ball off.

Point Guards run the entire basketball team...we have to perfectly capable guys to do that.

CablexDeadpool · Post #11 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:09 am

Iceburg Slim wrote:LeBron played PG briefly as a rookie and sophomore and it didn't work out; they didn't actually start winning games until Jeff McInnis came to town in 2005 and LeBron finally had a point guard to work with. Then again, that could have also been attributed to no other real talent being on those teams, so I think you could make a case for the position.

Lebron has Wade to be a second ballhandler, he would be totally be fine

Plus we not gonna call him point guard, we just call him Ballhandler A and Wade is Ballhandler B

I mean wtf else you think we gonna have with Spo coaching this team, we will still run the same crap, which would still have Lebron and Wade sharing the ball doing pick and rolls and isos.

Im just saying we shouldn't have a point guard if all he gonna do is bring the ball up and get out of the way.

CablexDeadpool · Post #12 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:19 am

LEIF wrote:on one hand I agree that our best lineup will never be a conventional PG-SG-SF-PF-C lineup, and with the right mix you could get away with our version of a "Ron Harper" in the starting unit. that being said you just cant play Lebron at PG exclusively for an entire season. Besides the fact that it takes away some of our biggest strengths as a TEAM, It would also force our two players to chase around quick PGs all season long and that would hurt them offensively, if not in the short term by the end of the season.

In crunchtime of the playoffs, or a specific 7 games series I am all for Lebron guarding DRose etc but for a full schedule, that is just not realizing what it takes to play at the level the best players on planet Earth play to on a nightly basis.

A great example is during the MJ-Pippen era neither would guard Timmie Hardaway exclusively in the regular season, but come playoff time they would shift over and stifle us.

Oh no, my idea would have DWade guarding point guards, Lebron guards SGs and the Small Forward guard the best player.

And this would allow Lebron to have more rest, because we would still have Norris Cole and Chalmers to play point guard off the bench. So if Heat needed to, Heat could still have chalmers on the quick pgs and we can go more traditional.

Plus Wade don't wanna chance around Ray Allen, so we have the SF do that for us.

We would still have Miller and the ariza/ wallace type player to spell Lebron and Wade.

The whole point of this not having a point guard, is to get rid of redundancy, if the Heat were gonna play with a point guard who has point guard duties in running the team and calling the plays then I would be fine with having a point guard. If you just want a point guard to give the ball to Lebron and Wade, then what is the point?

CablexDeadpool · Post #13 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:28 am

EscapoTHB wrote:I don't think Lebron is a very good PG is the main reason. He doesn't know how to start the offense quickly enough, and he doesn't really rip and run like Magic and Kidd do. He's pretty much like some sort of Larry Bird/Karl Malone hybrid.

The reason why he doesn't rip and run is because he played for 2 coaches, Mike Brown and Spo who focuses on defense and half court offensive play.

You can tell by watching Lebron play in the open court he do kinda have that Magic in him and he has that Bird in him in the half court.

I think if you told Lebron to focus on running the team and getting lay ups he could be without a real pg on the court.

Lebron needs the ball so let him have the ball exclusively and tell him not to worry about sharing, he will do what he do. His best season came with him dominating the ball without having a point guard doing point guard duties. Lebron averaged 8.6 assists and 29.7 points a game...without having a real point guard doing point guard duties.

I really think Lebron has paralysis by analysis with DWade there, he can do so much and yet he wants to be the good teammate that he kinda tries to make sure everybody is touching the ball especially Wade, that he kinda just sits there.

Plus it was a new team and he was trying to figure out where DWade likes the ball.

Lebron is a team dominant player, when he is on your team he tends to do everything for you, score rebound and pass, so in my personal opinion having a point guard gets in the way of that.

Lord Leoshes · Post #14 » by **Lord Leoshes** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:29 am

CablexDeadpool wrote:
LEIF wrote:on one hand I agree that our best lineup will never be a conventional PG-SG-SF-PF-C lineup, and with the right mix you could get away with our version of a "Ron Harper" in the starting unit. that being said you just cant play Lebron at PG exclusively for an entire season. Besides the fact that it takes away some of our biggest strengths as a TEAM, It would also force our two players to chase around quick PGs all season long and that would hurt them offensively, if not in the short term by the end of the season.

In crunchtime of the playoffs, or a specific 7 games series I am all for Lebron guarding DRose etc but for a full schedule, that is just not realizing what it takes to play at the level the best players on planet Earth play to on a nightly basis.

A great example is during the MJ-Pippen era neither would guard Timmie Hardaway exclusively in the regular season, but come playoff time they would shift over and stifle us.

Oh no, my idea would have DWade guarding point guards, Lebron guards SGs and the Small Forward guard the best player.

And this would allow Lebron to have more rest, because we would still have Norris Cole and Chalmers to play point guard off the bench. So if Heat needed to, Heat could still have chalmers on the quick pgs and we can go more traditional.

Plus Wade don't wanna chance around Ray Allen, so we have the SF do that for us.

We would still have Miller and the ariza/ wallace type player to spell Lebron and Wade.

The whole point of this not having a point guard, is to get rid of redundancy, if the Heat were gonna play with a point guard who has point guard duties in running the team and calling the plays then I would be fine with having a point guard. If you just want a point guard to give the ball to Lebron and Wade, then what is the point?

Wade will have nothing to do with that. Maybe occasionally, but not on a full time basis.

GreenHat · Post #15 » by **GreenHat** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:35 am

I disagree with the we don't need shooting. Defenses are much better now then they were when Magic played and transition defense is a lot better.

You need spacing.

A lineup with an offensively limited center and defensive sf who can't shoot (like a wallace) with bosh and wade wouldn't be the best it could be even if you had Magic to run the point.

I'm not opposed to getting a defensive guy, as long as he can guard point guards and shoot. I want a shooter on the floor at all times for at least some spacing.

CablexDeadpool · Post #16 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:52 am

GreenHat wrote:I disagree with the we don't need shooting. Defenses are much better now then they were when Magic played and transition defense is a lot better.

You need spacing.

A lineup with an offensively limited center and defensive sf who can't shoot (like a wallace) with bosh and wade wouldn't be the best it could be even if you had Magic to run the point.

I'm not opposed to getting a defensive guy, as long as he can guard point guards and shoot. I want a shooter on the floor at all times for at least some spacing.

Having a shooter means sacrificing defense and rebounding. In not having a shooter scenario Bosh would be used to space the floor and be an offensive post prescence.

Bosh would have a bigger role.

There are just not a lot of shooters who can defend, like a bruce bowen.

CablexDeadpool · Post #17 » by **CablexDeadpool** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:09 am

The perfect player for Lebron as PG scenario is Terrence Williams

Big enough to guard SGs and SF
Quick enough to guard points

Streaky scorer and a good ballhandler...

SweetTouch · Post #18 » by **SweetTouch** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:16 pm

yeah because the Heat are in desperation mode right now

it's not in any way strange to change a top 2 players position in his prime, let's do it

DWadeno3 · Post #19 » by **DWadeno3** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:43 pm

The answer to your question is really simple: LeBron is not a point guard. He's a great passer for his position, but not a great point guard.
Also, I can't believe people actually suggest we don't need a three point shooter on the floor. There are two reasons why guys like JJ and Miller will always be important to us:

A) We need the spacing to keep the driving lanes for D-Wade and especially LeBron open. People may not realize it, but as agile als LBJ is, it's still much harder for him to drive through a defense than it is for D-Wade for example. The guy is a freaking tank, that's what makes him so dominant. He will never be able to slice through a tight defense but once he has just enough space, you can't stop him. He's too quick and strong at the same time to not score or at least get to the line, but again, he need at least a little space out there.

B) Three point shooting is key to today's basketball. With the zone defense invading the NBA, teams can cover players who are defensive liabilities much better and pack the paint easier while forcing you into shooting outside shots. This wasn't the case in the Magic era. Go and watch the Finals games or the entire playoffs for that matter again and look how much three point shooting helped Dallas to win the title and how much it frankly helped us to get to the Finals.

indiegrind · Post #20 » by **indiegrind** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:54 pm

Lebron is not a cerebral player. When you leave it up to lebron to make decisions, he almost ALWAYS does the wrong thing. Hold the ball too long, telegraph a drive to the basket and allow the defense to draw a charge, make a bullet pass to Joel Anthony.

Making Lebron point guard gives him too much time to think and not enough time to just act. He is a great instinctive player, but he just isnt suited for a thinking man's position. Thats also why Mario Chalmers is a shaky point guard.

I think it takes away from Lebrons best offensive abilities to have him playing at the top of the circle. It would be a waste of his athleticism, explosiveness and ability to battle for rebounds. Plus, you really dont want Lebron chasing around a small point guard the entire game wearing him out.