Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2

[God Squad]

Quincy is a flat out PF to me at the next level, his on ball ability and speed is good and not exceptional... for a 4, in college. At the 3, in the NBA? Unless he has a burst of speed in him he hasn't shown because of the ACL injury I don't see it.

speed isnt bout everything and its harder when you have an acl injury like he has had. quincy is honestly one of the most craftiess offensive players in the ncaa right now imo. steph curry isnt the most athletic guy on the floor but his creativity and craftiness with the ball in his hands is phenomenal much like quincy. quincy's ability to create and read the defense is off the charts.

I have yet to see this. The games I watch he looked very passive. Yea he'd hit a floater now and then and a jumper. But this elite dribbling and offensive game needs to stop. He's a good passer from what I've seen though.

[fredericklove]

Lebron's struggles are definitely mental. He was passing up open 3's and just not shooting the ball at all. The Mavs played zone and Lebron just refused to try and break it. I can't imagine Jordan passing up an open 3 against a zone, and he wasn't a very good 3 point shooter either outside of a couple of seasons.

Jordan was a zone killer for many reasons. His mid range game being the main point. Something that Lebron doesn't have.

Dreamteam, buddy, I know both of us are Barnes fans...but to be fair, Lebron can turn a mediocre team into a title contender while KD is the best scorer in the league..., facts don't lie. They achieved all of that by doing what they do best, by using their superb talent.

[God Squad]

People are really underestimating Durants handles. I have no clue why, pretty sure he'll cross and destroy all if not most SF in the league

[Reignman]

If you want to project Barnes' handles, rather than LBJ or Durant we should be looking at a guy like Paul Pierce. Doesn't have a yo yo handle and seems to move in slow motion but with his footwork, understanding spacing and knowing how to protect the ball he is as effective as any other star in the league.

[7-Day Dray]

Durant's handles aren't very good for a SF. He has good handles for someone his height, but his handles are not very good in general. His poor handle is what cost OKC game 6 in the WCF. I can't find the video right now, but Durant had a key turnover late that was caused because of his poor handle. He can get in the lane sometimes because of his ability to straight-line drive and his long stride, but he's not a guy that can consistently breakdown the defense from the perimeter, that's just not his game. His forte is jumpshooting. He's a great off-the-ball player that can come around screens, and he can get in the lane occasionally and get bailed out by the refs.

But he proves that you can be a deadly scorer without having game-breaking handles.
turtlesnjoi wrote:

[Rapture]

Quincy is a flat out PF to me at the next level, his on ball ability and speed is good and not exceptional... for a 4, in college. At the 3, in the NBA? Unless he has a burst of speed in him he hasn't shown because of the ACL injury I don't see it.

speed isnt bout everything and its harder when you have an acl injury like he has had. quincy is honestly one of the most craftiess offensive players in the ncaa right now imo. steph curry isnt the most athletic guy on the floor but his creativity and craftiness with the ball in his hands is phenomenal much like quincy. quincy's ability to create and read the defense is off the charts.

I have yet to see this. The games I watch he looked very passive. Yea he'd hit a floater now and then and a jumper. But this elite dribbling and offensive game needs to stop. He's a good passer from what I've seen though.

This has a lot to do with him playing more inside and not having the ball in his hand that much. This should change a little bit now that P. Jones is coming back. I agree he hasn't been able to show his handles yet but still he has been able to show very good feel for the game and soft touch. He's still a freshman and tall SF's usually play more of a inside in college anyways.

[JamesNaismith]

If you want to project Barnes' handles, rather than LBJ or Durant we should be looking at a guy like Paul Pierce. Doesn't have a yo yo handle and seems to move in slow motion but with his footwork, understanding spacing and knowing how to protect the ball he is as effective as any other star in the league.

I definitely don't see Pierce either.

Paul does exactly what you mention very well....Barnes does not.

Pierce is still pretty fluid, low to the ground like many solid ball handlers are where as Harrison looks pretty robotic and upright. If anything I think Barnes' ballhandling potential is more in line with Rudy Gay who has become better over time. Cuz seriously if Barnes had Pierce's handles he would basically be a tall Brandon Roy and believe I would love if that were true and would argue could be worth as much as a Davis or Drummond --- but he's not.

[Reignman]

If you want to project Barnes' handles, rather than LBJ or Durant we should be looking at a guy like Paul Pierce. Doesn't have a yo yo handle and seems to move in slow motion but with his footwork, understanding spacing and knowing how to protect the ball he is as effective as any other star in the league.

I definitely don't see Pierce either.

Paul does exactly what you mention very well....Barnes does not.

Pierce is still pretty fluid, low to the ground like many solid ball handlers are where as Harrison looks pretty robotic and upright. If anything I think Barnes' ballhandling potential is more in line with Rudy Gay who has become better over time. Cuz seriously if Barnes had Pierce's handles he would basically be a tall Brandon Roy and believe I would love if that were true and would argue could be worth as much as a Davis or Drummond --- but he's not.

If you want to project Barnes' handles

[Rapture]

If you want to project Barnes' handles, rather than LBJ or Durant we should be looking at a guy like Paul Pierce. Doesn't have a yo yo handle and seems to move in slow motion but with his footwork, understanding spacing and knowing how to protect the ball he is as effective as any other star in the league.

Disagree here. Pierce has ELITE footwork and craftiness. Also his handle is kinda underrated. What Pierce doesn't have is a quick first step. I think Barnes is more of a shooter/post-up player. Of course he will improve his creating ability but I don't see him being able to develop a similar unique skill set to Pierce. Barnes is already bigger and has more length than Pierce though.

[ty123]

Pierce is a much better ball handler than Barnes. He's not an Allen Iverson, but he never looked alkward with the ball in his hands.

[fredericklove]

If you want to project Barnes' handles, rather than LBJ or Durant we should be looking at a guy like Paul Pierce. Doesn't have a yo yo handle and seems to move in slow motion but with his footwork, understanding spacing and knowing how to protect the ball he is as effective as any other star in the league.

Agree, I also think Pierce started out with being just a jump shooter cos I remembered watching him played in his rookie season. Second year he became more assertive, utilizing all those deceptive moves and on and on becoming an all star, he's not a superstar yet he's able to break down any opponents in the league. But he's just one case. I say barnes is going to compensate his poor handles by adding deceptive moves. He has talent in the triple-threat and jab-steps department, he's a smart player he's going to learn to play and adjust. This is why he barely scratch his surface...think about it, he was being criticized heavily last year, but he never really backed down and wind up going on fire in 2nd half even when he still lacks the handle. He's in an experimental phase, trying to learn as much as he can and we see that from this season, he's learning to attack more, shoot less threes. He's not done yet. He has so much more to offer in my opinion.

[JamesNaismith]

If you want to project Barnes' handles

Fair enough.

I still don't see that based on the comparisons I just gave of the 2 and I find Gay far more likely but everyone's entitled to their projections. I just don't see the fluidity or him keeping the ball low enough to pull off what Pierce does. Hopefully the "craftiness" of Barnes will take him to that level...however again he just seems very stiff, robotic and too upright at the time being for me to see it.

[redraptors]

Barnes reminds me of Jamal Mashburn which was a sick player when he was healthy.
He had a great body, could shoot, post up. Very good player would have been a monster if
the injury bug never killed him..

What do you think??

[dTox]

The more I watch QMiller play the more I fall in love with his potential. His D is a bit of a concern but I think by this time next year his body should heal further along to give him that extra pep in his step to stay in front of his man. I like Barnes, but he just doesn't come across as a dynamic scorer to me the way Miller does, and once Miller gets his athleticism back he should be able to add more hops to that already crafty game.

[redraptors]

If I could have a dream scenerio it would be to win the 1st overall have someone over value Drummond and pick up Davis and Gilchrest instead..
I think Thomas (memphesis) is someone that is underrated on our boards right now.
Davis, Drummond, Barnes, Gilchrest, are very good players and prospects... Lamb is turning into one of those why didnt we pick him again guys, which doesnt worry me too much becuase BC is pretty good at the draft.

I would love to some how get Davis and Trade our Current Davis for Thomas, Gilchrest, Barnes etc

[Basketball_Jones]

My memory isn't good enough to recall Mashburn. I remember he was big and had a sweet turn around fadeaway in the post. His ball handling was decent as well, though not elite or top level. He just had good separation dribbles to get a shot off and a knack to score from anywhere. Good size too. I guess that sounds like Barnes.

[fredericklove]

Barnes reminds me of Jamal Mashburn which was a sick player when he was healthy.
He had a great body, could shoot, post up. Very good player would have been a monster if
the injury bug never killed him..

What do you think??

Similar in terms of good spot up shooters, cut through screens to get that mid-range going, not athletic but uses his strength to drive in the lane...but one thing though, his post up game was elite, he was a monster in that area. idk if Barnes likes to post up anyways, he's more of a trying to use his jabstep/triple threat to score more often than to post up to dominate players.

[The Chucker]

The more I watch QMiller play the more I fall in love with his potential. His D is a bit of a concern but I think by this time next year his body should heal further along to give him that extra pep in his step to stay in front of his man. I like Barnes, but he just doesn't come across as a dynamic scorer to me the way Miller does, and once Miller gets his athleticism back he should be able to add more hops to that already crafty game.

agreed. even still recovering over his acl injury he doesnt look that bad on the floor with baylor. sure theyre playing zone defense which fits caseys liking. hes doing a good job of making use of his length. im just amazed at how well hes able to create his shot especially an elevated pull up.

[redraptors]

The more I watch QMiller play the more I fall in love with his potential. His D is a bit of a concern but I think by this time next year his body should heal further along to give him that extra pep in his step to stay in front of his man. I like Barnes, but he just doesn't come across as a dynamic scorer to me the way Miller does, and once Miller gets his athleticism back he should be able to add more hops to that already crafty game.

agreed. even still recovering over his acl injury he doesnt look that bad on the floor with baylor. sure theyre playing zone defense which fits caseys liking. hes doing a good job of making use of his length. im just amazed at how well hes able to create his shot especially an elevated pull up.

I See alot of good in Miller also. I just have concerns when young players already have major issues such as ACL repair. It takes about two years to recover so he should be okay now. He has played okay so far I just want to see what he does against , Barnes, Gilchrest, Thomas

[redraptors]

Barnes reminds me of Jamal Mashburn which was a sick player when he was healthy.
He had a great body, could shoot, post up. Very good player would have been a monster if
the injury bug never killed him..

What do you think??

Similar in terms of good spot up shooters, cut through screens to get that mid-range going, not athletic but uses his strength to drive in the lane...but one thing though, his post up game was elite, he was a monster in that area. idk if Barnes likes to post up anyways, he's more of a trying to use his jabstep/triple threat to score more often than to post up to dominate players.

I look at Barnes and I see a Jamal Mashburn that is willing to play some Defence. Remember the three J's Jimmy Johnson, Jason Kidd and Jamal... if those guys didnt have those issues between them they could have been a hell of team for a long long time. I loved Mashburn skill set and tallent, he was missing a little drive to get better and I think Barnes has that drive... The more and more I think about it the more excited I am for he Raps to have a chance at Drummond, Davis, Barnes really great tallent