Let's Clear this up right now: Russell Westbrook

Clangus · Post #1 » by **Clangus** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:43 am

There has been so many posts lately, especially ones that are slanted towards trades that say things like:
"Westbrook is a hog" "The Thunder want a pass first PG" "Westbrook ignores Durant" "Westbrook want to be the man"

I just want to clear this up for those posters that are misguided in this.
Russell Westbrook is not a ball hog. The Dallas series which most are basing thier entire opinion of him was not all on Westbrook. There were 2 other contributing factors for that.

1. Durant is terrible at getting open (scary thought I know). And when he is not open, the other 3 players n the floor are so offensively challenged that Westbrook was forced to try and create something himself late in the clock. Check Durants useage for that series(and in general) its very high, the problem was not getting him the ball, the problem was the offense Brooks uses and teh fact that we had only 2.5 offensive threats on the floor(RW, KD and Ibaka(the 1/2) )

2. Scott Brooks, whom i tihnk has done a great job is still learning. Just like the Thunder as a team is growing, Brooks as a coach is too. I cant remember how many games that his crunch time plays resulted in a 35footer by KD or a turnoever by KD dribbling off his foot. He simply is over matched at the end of games and cannot draw plays in pressure situations, and cannot draw plays to get KD the ball in the right spots late. This leave RW trying to get the ball to KD for one of those 35footers or waiting for something to unfold and be forced to attack.

Please stop basing an entire players body of work on a few moments that if you look a little deeper you will see were not 100% his fault. (I do admit he could improve his decision making, but in general he's very good)
The Thunder do not need a pass first PG. Westbrook is not takign shots off KD (or Harden for that matter). And in the end the Thunder are winning a lot games because of not in spite of Westbrook.

HeartSouloma · Post #2 » by **HeartSouloma** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:48 am

Finally some body with common sense.

Post #3 » by **darth_federer** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:55 am

Averaged 6 assists and close to 5 turnovers a game in the playoffs. Noticeably forced shots and was shooting at D Rose percentages. And unlike Rose he had the best offensive player in the world playing with him. The knock on him coming out of college was that he wasnt a pass first pg. And nothing in his 3 years in the league has changed that opinion.

There were times when he noticeably did not pass when he could have.

BadMojo · Post #4 » by **BadMojo** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:57 am

Westbrook is a fantastic player. A lot of fans don't take into consideration how a player's role is best used according to the system and the teammates they have to work with. Some players do their thing no matter what system or teammates they have and it can either help or hurt a team. Others adjust because it is all about winning to them and no matter what they do, they think it is needed to give them the best chance to win. I see Westbrook as a guy that just wants to win and is doing whatever he thinks needs to be done. I don't see him as a guy that just wants to get his numbers no matter what. Durant can't do it all and no one makes the perfect play every time. People are too quick to blast non-perfection even though no player in NBA history has ever been or ever will be perfect.

Post #5 » by **darth_federer** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:57 am

Thoughts on this?

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2011/04 ... westbrook/

And FYI Ive always been a fan of the guy. He needs to improve though.

Clangus · Post #6 » by **Clangus** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:00 am

darth_federer wrote:Averaged 6 assists and close to 5 turnovers a game in the playoffs. Noticeably forced shots and was shooting at D Rose percentages. And unlike Rose he had the best offensive player in the world playing with him. The knock on him coming out of college was that he wasnt a pass first pg. And nothing in his 3 years in the league has changed that opinion.

There were times when he noticeably did not pass when he could have.

That could be said of any player, i dont see your point. :dontknow:

And for the record it was 4.6to and 6.4assists. It really makes you look petty when you round the stats in your arguemants favor.

BodieB · Post #7 » by **BodieB** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:00 am

darth_federer wrote:Averaged 6 assists and close to 5 turnovers a game in the playoffs. Noticeably forced shots and was shooting at D Rose percentages. And unlike Rose he had the best offensive player in the world playing with him. The knock on him coming out of college was that he wasnt a pass first pg. And nothing in his 3 years in the league has changed that opinion.

There were times when he noticeably did not pass when he could have.

This is correct. That said, he's still a very very good player.

MAQ · Post #8 » by **MAQ** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:02 am

darth_federer wrote:Averaged 6 assists and close to 5 turnovers a game in the playoffs. Noticeably forced shots and was shooting at D Rose percentages. And unlike Rose he had the best offensive player in the world playing with him. The knock on him coming out of college was that he wasnt a pass first pg. And nothing in his 3 years in the league has changed that opinion.

There were times when he noticeably did not pass when he could have.

Shooting at D. Rose percentages? Really? Are you referring to the percentages he shot his first 2 seasons in the league? Or his 3rd season? Why even bring up his name.

Yes, I took the bait...It's getting old as hell.

Clangus · Post #9 » by **Clangus** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:02 am

darth_federer wrote:Thoughts on this?

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2011/04 ... westbrook/

And FYI Ive always been a fan of the guy. He needs to improve though.

Read the first comment after the article

Clangus · Post #10 » by **Clangus** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:03 am

MAQ wrote:
darth_federer wrote:Averaged 6 assists and close to 5 turnovers a game in the playoffs. Noticeably forced shots and was shooting at D Rose percentages. And unlike Rose he had the best offensive player in the world playing with him. The knock on him coming out of college was that he wasnt a pass first pg. And nothing in his 3 years in the league has changed that opinion.

There were times when he noticeably did not pass when he could have.

Shooting at D. Rose percentages? Really? Are you referring to the percentages he shot his first 2 seasons in the league? Or his 3rd season? Why even bring up his name.

Yes, I took the bait...It's getting old as hell.

I noticed that too, but since im fighting a differnt battle i let it pass :lol:

SpeedyWindRose · Post #11 » by **SpeedyWindRose** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:03 am

darth_federer wrote:Averaged 6 assists and close to 5 turnovers a game in the playoffs. Noticeably forced shots and was shooting at D Rose percentages. And unlike Rose he had the best offensive player in the world playing with him. The knock on him coming out of college was that he wasnt a pass first pg. And nothing in his 3 years in the league has changed that opinion.

There were times when he noticeably did not pass when he could have.

And boom goes the **** dynamite.

Also, OP, doesn't your post basically imply that Durant would benefit from a pass-first PG like Paul more so than Russell West(brick, choke, broke)?

Xsy · Post #12 » by **Xsy** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:03 am

Wasn't there some ridiculous stat about Westbrook during the playoffs?

Something about the number of times he took the ball down the court without passing it once.

There was also a huge trend that the more assists Westbrook got, the more Win's OKC got.

Post #13 » by **darth_federer** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:04 am

Clangus wrote:
darth_federer wrote:Averaged 6 assists and close to 5 turnovers a game in the playoffs. Noticeably forced shots and was shooting at D Rose percentages. And unlike Rose he had the best offensive player in the world playing with him. The knock on him coming out of college was that he wasnt a pass first pg. And nothing in his 3 years in the league has changed that opinion.

There were times when he noticeably did not pass when he could have.

That could be said of any player, i dont see your point.

And for the record it was 4.6to and 6.4assists. It really makes you look petty when you round the stats in your arguemants favor.

I said close to 5 turnovers. I didnt say 5 turnovers. And seeing as you round up 4.6 to 5 nothing I said was inaccurate. Nor was rounding down 6.4 to 6. But we re arguing semantics here.

And Westbrook is arguably one of the biggest "overshooters" in the league.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 02548.html

Again Ive always been a fan but youre in denial if you think your boy doesnt need to improve. He was noticeably selfish last year in the playoffs.

SpeedyWindRose · Post #14 » by **SpeedyWindRose** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:04 am

MAQ wrote:
darth_federer wrote:Averaged 6 assists and close to 5 turnovers a game in the playoffs. Noticeably forced shots and was shooting at D Rose percentages. And unlike Rose he had the best offensive player in the world playing with him. The knock on him coming out of college was that he wasnt a pass first pg. And nothing in his 3 years in the league has changed that opinion.

There were times when he noticeably did not pass when he could have.

Shooting at D. Rose percentages? Really? Are you referring to the percentages he shot his first 2 seasons in the league? Or his 3rd season? Why even bring up his name.

Yes, I took the bait...It's getting old as hell.

I raged a bit inside for a second but then decided not to bother with it because he acknowledged that Westbrook, unlike Rose, had someone like Durant on his team.

Clangus · Post #15 » by **Clangus** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:04 am

MacheteConfetti wrote:Wasn't there some ridiculous stat about Westbrook during the playoffs?

Something about the number of times he took the ball down the court without passing it once.

Im not sure about this, but i would bet that it counts fast breaks etc.

Phailadelphia · Post #16 » by **Phailadelphia** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:05 am

darth_federer wrote:Thoughts on this?

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2011/04 ... westbrook/

And FYI Ive always been a fan of the guy. He needs to improve though.

Did you even read the article before posting it? Here, I'm just going to copy/paste the first comment in it since it points out the inherent flaws in the stat cherry picking done by the author.

Wait a minute…

Your argument is that Durant is a much less efficient player when playing with Westbrook. This doesn’t seem to be true. His FG% is the same, his 3pt% is the same. His usage increases, but his efficiency is the same (according to the numbers you cited, you never show us Durant’s PER).

From an efficiency standpoint, Maynor does not help Durant’s production either. Durant has the same FG% while his 3Pt% actually increases when Maynor is off the court.

Your second claim is that Westbrook’s production is roughly the same with Durant on or off the floor. From an efficiency standpoint, this simply isn’t true. His FG% drops 5% when Durant’s not on the floor while is 3pt% drops 9%! Without showing us PER ratings, win shares, or offensive ratings, your argument holds no water.

In fact, it makes total sense that Westbrook would be more efficient with Durant on the floor: Defenses key on stopping Durant leaving more room for Westbrook to create off the dribble.

Edit: For what it's worth, Westbrook has improved markedly every year he's been in the league so simply saying "he needs to improve" is not very insightful to say the least.

Post #17 » by **darth_federer** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:05 am

MAQ wrote:
darth_federer wrote:Averaged 6 assists and close to 5 turnovers a game in the playoffs. Noticeably forced shots and was shooting at D Rose percentages. And unlike Rose he had the best offensive player in the world playing with him. The knock on him coming out of college was that he wasnt a pass first pg. And nothing in his 3 years in the league has changed that opinion.

There were times when he noticeably did not pass when he could have.

Shooting at D. Rose percentages? Really? Are you referring to the percentages he shot his first 2 seasons in the league? Or his 3rd season? Why even bring up his name.

Yes, I took the bait...It's getting old as hell.

Youre right. I shouldnt have brought up Rose and his FG% in this thread but what I meant was that they both shot 39% in the playoffs last year. Rose had no one else on his team step up really while Westbrook had Durant who had some monster games.

SpeedyWindRose · Post #18 » by **SpeedyWindRose** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:06 am

darth_federer wrote:Again Ive always been a fan but youre in denial if you think your boy doesnt need to improve. He was noticeably selfish last year in the playoffs.

Yep. Everyone saw this. I remember getting pissed off/laughing at some of the stuff he was doing out there.

Clangus · Post #19 » by **Clangus** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:06 am

SpeedyWindRose wrote:
MAQ wrote:
darth_federer wrote:Averaged 6 assists and close to 5 turnovers a game in the playoffs. Noticeably forced shots and was shooting at D Rose percentages. And unlike Rose he had the best offensive player in the world playing with him. The knock on him coming out of college was that he wasnt a pass first pg. And nothing in his 3 years in the league has changed that opinion.

There were times when he noticeably did not pass when he could have.

Shooting at D. Rose percentages? Really? Are you referring to the percentages he shot his first 2 seasons in the league? Or his 3rd season? Why even bring up his name.

Yes, I took the bait...It's getting old as hell.

I raged a bit inside for a second but then decided not to bother with it because he acknowledged that Westbrook, unlike Rose, had someone like Durant on his team.

seriously, you had to slip that in there? Lets not talk about Deng, Boozer (yes yes i know he was garbage blah blah and Noah (who can actually put the ball in hte hoop unlike perk)

damn it i took th bait again. Its going to be a long day.

Clangus · Post #20 » by **Clangus** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:08 am

darth_federer wrote:
Clangus wrote:
darth_federer wrote:Averaged 6 assists and close to 5 turnovers a game in the playoffs. Noticeably forced shots and was shooting at D Rose percentages. And unlike Rose he had the best offensive player in the world playing with him. The knock on him coming out of college was that he wasnt a pass first pg. And nothing in his 3 years in the league has changed that opinion.

There were times when he noticeably did not pass when he could have.

That could be said of any player, i dont see your point.

And for the record it was 4.6to and 6.4assists. It really makes you look petty when you round the stats in your arguemants favor.

I said close to 5 turnovers. I didnt say 5 turnovers. And seeing as you round up 4.6 to 5 nothing I said was inaccurate. Nor was rounding down 6.4 to 6. But we re arguing semantics here.

And Westbrook is arguably one of the biggest "overshooters" in the league.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 02548.html

Again Ive always been a fan but youre in denial if you think your boy doesnt need to improve. He was noticeably selfish last year in the playoffs.

I never said he doesn't need to improve. But the general sentiment is that he is some kind of ball hog that is more worried about getting his than the good of the team, and THAT is very misguided.