Giants Leadup

[rilamann]

I see a lot of blitzes last year, which would explain why the numbers would show that we're blitzing just as much. But I'm only seeing guys blitz straight on. They aren't creative at all. That let's the QB pick the blitz up easier, therefore we aren't getting to the QB as often. In games where we've seen the better D I've seen much more creative blitz packages. Not just Hawk and Bishop doing a stunt.

I agree that losing Jenkins hurt. I won't argue that because it's very obvious. But IMO if you don't think Capers is holding back at least some, then I'd take a break from reading stats that only tell a fraction of the story.

This is pretty much dead on and like Marty said above,maybe ''coasting'' isn't the right word but the Packers are deff holding back defensively and ''vanilla'' is probably the more appropriate word.


Based on watching the games this season that is a fact.I'm still waiting to see the first ''psycho blitz'' this season.We've blitzed sure,but the blitz packages have been very vanilla.We haven't really seen anything exotic yet.

And even if I didn't watch the games and was just looking at stats I'd still buy more into the Vanilla idea more El Dude's theory that guys like Bj Raji,Clay Matthews and Charles Woodson suddenly forgot how to play football.

The Packers are the defending Super Bowl champs,they are 11-0 and have the MVP of the league in Aaron Rodgers at QB.

I don't understand how some people think that it's crazy that the defense might be holding back in the reg season.

The most glaring thing that proves this fact is how every time it was necessary the Packers get a defensive stop they have come up big every time.

And they got those necessary defensive stops vs some damn good offenses (Saints,Chargers,Falcons).

[rilamann]

I don't think they are 'coasting,' but I do think the d is getting a bad rep. The problem with having such a dominate offense that scores quickly and keeps you constantly in the lead, teams are going to rack up more yards. If our offense was average, I bet our defense puts up a slightly above average stats.

That's a great point as well.

When you have a high powered offense like the Packers with quick strike ability it's going to create more possessions for both teams obviously.

[Greatness]

I was very concerned with the D after the San Diego game, but it was outstanding two of the past 3 games. Last season our D was shaky for the first half of the season and turned it on the second half (albeit it wasn't nearly as bad as the first half of this season). I'm excited to see how our D plays Sunday against a pretty good passing attack.

[El Duderino]

I think that the D Linemen have had more responsibilities in containment with the amount of blitzing we've been doing. Last week we blitzed less and sent the linemen upfield, but kept more in coverage. It hurt our run defense, but overall I thought it worked really well. Not sure if you'd want to do that as much against a team with a really good RB, but it might still be worth it.

Raji was not having a problem getting upfield, though, even against double teams, so I feel like responsibilities might have more to do with his lack of pressures than a decline in ability.

When McGinn grades the game film every week, he's been talking pretty much all year about why he is somewhat at a loss for why Raji has been significantly less disruptive, especially as a pass rusher. His initial thought was that Raji simply was playing to many snaps and combined with Jenkins not being there, those were the most likely reasons. Then though he'd talk about how even less than great or even good guards and centers were largely containing Raji, even sometimes without a double team.

As for the rest of the DL, i think that's more simple, none really have much pass rush skills besides Neal and he's finally starting to play after missing a ton of time injured.

When our D-lineman so consistently fail to either beat their blocker or fail to at least collapse the pocket some as has been the case this year, it can impact the middle linebacker blitz and Matthews by freeing up lineman/backs/tight ends to to help everywhere else.

I'd love to be able to look back to last year and see how often on sacks or heavy pressures by Matthews that first there was some interior pressure created by Raji or Jenkins that forced the QB to move out from the pocket because it's rarely happening this year. Plus, even if Clay beats his man, if there is zero interior push, the QB can just move up in the pocket a step or two for an extra second to get rid of the ball and avoid the sack.

[Ayt]

I see a lot of blitzes last year, which would explain why the numbers would show that we're blitzing just as much. But I'm only seeing guys blitz straight on. They aren't creative at all. That let's the QB pick the blitz up easier, therefore we aren't getting to the QB as often. In games where we've seen the better D I've seen much more creative blitz packages. Not just Hawk and Bishop doing a stunt.

I agree that losing Jenkins hurt. I won't argue that because it's very obvious. But IMO if you don't think Capers is holding back at least some, then I'd take a break from reading stats that only tell a fraction of the story.

I'd be shocked if we haven't blitzed with our DBs more this year than last year. We are blitzing in all kinds of different ways. I'd say the way we are blitzing Bishop is very unique for a MLB considering he's blitzed from basically every gap.

[El Duderino]

I see a lot of blitzes last year, which would explain why the numbers would show that we're blitzing just as much. But I'm only seeing guys blitz straight on. They aren't creative at all. That let's the QB pick the blitz up easier, therefore we aren't getting to the QB as often. In games where we've seen the better D I've seen much more creative blitz packages. Not just Hawk and Bishop doing a stunt.

I agree that losing Jenkins hurt. I won't argue that because it's very obvious. But IMO if you don't think Capers is holding back at least some, then I'd take a break from reading stats that only tell a fraction of the story.

What exact "creative" blitzes has Capers been holding back?

There are only so many possible blitz packages that any coordinator can run and there isn't one that nobody hasn't ever seen before. Capers early in the year was blitzing Woodson a ton, as he did last season. The only difference being that offenses this year were more ready for Woodson blitzing and thus it wasn't as effective. After Woodson regularly was getting picked up by offenses on the blitz, Capers stopped beating his head against a brick wall and stopped using that blitz so much.

Capers has also sent Williams and Shields on corner blitzes, as he did last year. He has never been one to blitz safeties much though. He'll twist Clay inside sometimes. Who else is left to be sent on blitzes? You guys act like Capers has all these special blitz packages up his sleeve which he's secretly holding for later on which will confuses offenses. It's 2011, half the league runs a 3-4 defense, Capers doesn't have a blitz that offenses haven't seen numerous times over. Teams that get consistent pressure get it largely by guys beating their man, not by tricky scheming.

It's not just stats, i watch the games as you do and i don't see anything of this Capers being vanilla and holding stuff back. He's running the same blitzes he did last year. The by far biggest difference between this year and last year isn't scheme, and both Capers and McGinn say the same thing. The biggest difference is that last season way more often in passing situations the defense could generate pressure when just sending four guys, Matthews/Raji/Jenkins and Walden or Zombo while leaving seven back in coverage. When Capers just rushes four guys this year though, it's largely been woefully ineffective at generating pressure. Sending five or more rushers exposes the secondary a lot more,especially with Peprah replacing Collins.

[eagle13]

Its not new but Capers started blitzing Wood from the inside slot some the last few games after his outside blitz wasn't getting home earlier in season as you noted.

[El Duderino]

I see a lot of blitzes last year, which would explain why the numbers would show that we're blitzing just as much. But I'm only seeing guys blitz straight on. They aren't creative at all. That let's the QB pick the blitz up easier, therefore we aren't getting to the QB as often. In games where we've seen the better D I've seen much more creative blitz packages. Not just Hawk and Bishop doing a stunt.

I agree that losing Jenkins hurt. I won't argue that because it's very obvious. But IMO if you don't think Capers is holding back at least some, then I'd take a break from reading stats that only tell a fraction of the story.

This is pretty much dead on and like Marty said above,maybe ''coasting'' isn't the right word but the Packers are deff holding back defensively and ''vanilla'' is probably the more appropriate word.


Based on watching the games this season that is a fact.I'm still waiting to see the first ''psycho blitz'' this season.We've blitzed sure,but the blitz packages have been very vanilla.We haven't really seen anything exotic yet.

Capers doesn't use the ''psycho blitz'' package much anymore because when he used it in the past it looked good in theory, but rarely was that effective. I saw it used maybe 2-3 times this year and it wasn't effective those times either. To much film available in today's NFL for a gimmick play call like that to consistently confuse blockers.

I don't understand how some people think that it's crazy that the defense might be holding back in the reg season.

NFL coaches don't do that stuff beyond maybe a trick play on offense or special teams. They scheme a game each week that gives them the best chance to win that given game, not worry first about holding stuff back for a potential game in January. You're thinking like a fan, not a coach.

The most glaring thing that proves this fact is how every time it was necessary the Packers get a defensive stop they have come up big every time.

And they got those necessary defensive stops vs some damn good offenses (Saints,Chargers,Falcons).

Come on rilaman, you're using very selective memory here.

The Saints shredded our defense almost all game long, the stop you mention was a one play goal line stand, not some exotic play call.

The stop vs the Chargers came on an awful pass by Rivers into double coverage, not because Capers called some extra special defense on that play. Let's not forget either that the only reason a stop was needed there was the defense was pathetic and gave up 14 points in a blink because they couldn't get to Rivers and guys in the secondary were blowing coverages.

The week before they let a rookie QB in Ponder get back into the game because they couldn't get off the field on third downs.

Or the Tampa game where besides two picks by Tramon, Freeman completed one pass after another to nearly win the game after destroying our defense, including in the fourth quarter. It took a drop on a two point play, two failed onside kicks, and Rodgers throwing that TD to Nelson to seal the game. Capers had no answers to stop Tampa regardless if he blitzed or only rushed four and Tampa has a very mediocre offense.

FWIW, i don't think the defense is terrible. They get interceptions at a high rate because the secondary has playmakers and turnover ratio decides games more than anything else. Given Rodgers rarely turns it over and our defense at least is good at getting turnovers, it makes the Packers nearly impossible to beat. Just being even on turnovers for an opposing team in a game leaves them at a disadvantage vs GB because we have Rodgers, but most teams end up losing that turnover ratio and thus it's a near guaranteed loss.

I simply just don't buy the vanilla or coasting theory at all for why the defense has been shredded more this. It's way more about missing Jenkins and Collins. Raji not playing as well, same for Tramon and Shields.

[MickeyDavis]

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette ... CFRONTPAGE

Interesting story on Finley and how he thinks he's not having a good season.

“I’ve got to get back in my groove and get the chemistry down with the quarterback,” Finley said. “As everyone can see, the chemistry’s not there with the quarterback.”

“With all the playmakers on the team, as you can see, the receivers got the chemistry with the quarterback,” Finley said. “The chemistry, the eye to eye, is not there.”

[Newz]

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20111202/PKR01/111202135/Finley-looks-regain-chemistry-?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE

Interesting story on Finley and how he thinks he's not having a good season.

“I’ve got to get back in my groove and get the chemistry down with the quarterback,” Finley said. “As everyone can see, the chemistry’s not there with the quarterback.”

“With all the playmakers on the team, as you can see, the receivers got the chemistry with the quarterback,” Finley said. “The chemistry, the eye to eye, is not there.”

Elite TE can admit he is not playing like an elite player, while some fans insist that he is.

At least Finley can be logical.