Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2

[5DOM]

Any GM that picks Barnes over Jonas should be fired

I don't think so.

It's funny how someone can make such a definite statement regarding GM's on picking two unproven players who have yet to step on the NBA court.

It was a bit of a hyperbole, but it really depends. Not all players who have yet to play in the NBA are the same.

[dTox]

It was a bit of a hyperbole, but it really depends. Not all players who have yet to play in the NBA are the same.

But has Jonas shown enough to warrant such a distance in gap between their talent/plays? I'm not saying Barnes is better but I wouldn't be as opposed to the selection.

[SkywalkerAC]

I'm still thinking that Barnes is the guy that best suits our team. He's a lot more Shane Battier than Lebron James but he's going to be a better shooter than both. DD/Barnes is an elite 2/3 combo, probably from year 1. HB could slide over to the 2 for Casey's bruiser line. Then you're really just a stud point guard away.

[JamesNaismith]

I'm still thinking that Barnes is the guy that best suits our team. He's a lot more Shane Battier than Lebron James but he's going to be a better shooter than both. DD/Barnes is an elite 2/3 combo, probably from year 1. HB could slide over to the 2 for Casey's bruiser line. Then you're really just a stud point guard away.

From what?!?

[Basketball_Jones]

I'm actually really intrigued with Lamb. He's a shooting guard though, not sure how Demar would fair against SF's given his lack of wingspan.

[5DOM]

It was a bit of a hyperbole, but it really depends. Not all players who have yet to play in the NBA are the same.

But has Jonas shown enough to warrant such a distance in gap between their talent/plays? I'm not saying Barnes is better but I wouldn't be as opposed to the selection.

I think Jonas' production in Europe and International competition as well as his skill set + potential + position make him the superior prospect to Barnes who's more often disappointed than impressed.

[plainballing]

I'm still thinking that Barnes is the guy that best suits our team. He's a lot more Shane Battier than Lebron James but he's going to be a better shooter than both. DD/Barnes is an elite 2/3 combo, probably from year 1. HB could slide over to the 2 for Casey's bruiser line. Then you're really just a stud point guard away.

The problem with that is...we don't have a LeBron James to begin with...so Battier to a team that have potential to be Battier doesn't help.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

I'm actually really intrigued with Lamb. He's a shooting guard though, not sure how Demar would fair against SF's given his lack of wingspan.

I think we could trade Demar for a 6-10 pick and get a SF there. I would like to have 3 rookie deals start next year rather than pay Derozan.

[DreamTeam09]

I'm actually really intrigued with Lamb. He's a shooting guard though, not sure how Demar would fair against SF's given his lack of wingspan.

I think we could trade Demar for a 6-10 pick and get a SF there. I would like to have 3 rookie deals start next year rather than pay Derozan.

Its moves like this that are treadmill moves... In 3yrs ur just gonna be like trade lamb for a pick in the 6-10 range and den do it all over again...

[highness]

I'm actually really intrigued with Lamb. He's a shooting guard though, not sure how Demar would fair against SF's given his lack of wingspan.

I think we could trade Demar for a 6-10 pick and get a SF there. I would like to have 3 rookie deals start next year rather than pay Derozan.

No.

[5DOM]

I'm actually really intrigued with Lamb. He's a shooting guard though, not sure how Demar would fair against SF's given his lack of wingspan.

I think we could trade Demar for a 6-10 pick and get a SF there. I would like to have 3 rookie deals start next year rather than pay Derozan.

Its moves like this that are treadmill moves... In 3yrs ur just gonna be like trade lamb for a pick in the 6-10 range and den do it all over again...

This isn't a treadmill move if you feel Lamb is a better prospect than DeMar. I would hesitate to choose Lamb over DeMar simply because DeMar's actually proven, but Lamb's massive potential makes this a difficult decision.

[dTox]

It was a bit of a hyperbole, but it really depends. Not all players who have yet to play in the NBA are the same.

But has Jonas shown enough to warrant such a distance in gap between their talent/plays? I'm not saying Barnes is better but I wouldn't be as opposed to the selection.

I think Jonas' production in Europe and International competition as well as his skill set + potential + position make him the superior prospect to Barnes who's more often disappointed than impressed.

His performance was solid but mind you this was an under 19 cup, he barely got minutes when he played for the Senior team. As for his season with Rytas, his rebounding has been a disappointing and is very foul prone, hasn't really done much this year to warrant anything. You are also forgetting that HB blew up in the 2nd half of last season and performed impressively at the tourny. If you compare this season's statistics for both of their performances for their respective clubs Barnes has a slight edge. And yes Jonas does have better length, but you are comparing a C to a SF, Barnes has the absolute perfect body for a SF and he hasn't even entered the league yet...Jonas is still skinny and frail (but a solid frame)...But again, good C are hard to come by that is why I am excited about Jonas, but to say he's a much better prospect than Barnes is very very arguable

[5DOM]

His performance was solid but mind you this was an under 19 cup, he barely got minutes when he played for the Senior team. As for his season with Rytas, his rebounding has been a disappointing and is very foul prone, hasn't really done much this year to warrant anything. You are also forgetting that HB blew up in the 2nd half of last season and performed impressively at the tourny. If you compare this season's statistics for both of their performances for their respective clubs Barnes has a slight edge. And yes Jonas does have better length, but you are comparing a C to a SF, Barnes has the absolute perfect body for a SF and he hasn't even entered the league yet...Jonas is still skinny and frail (but a solid frame)...But again, good C are hard to come by that is why I am excited about Jonas, but to say he's a much better prospect than Barnes is very very arguable

Last year:

This year, he is competing in the highest level of European basketball in the Euroleague as well, and ranks as one of the top players in the competition on a per-40 minute basis in points (21.8), rebounds (13.6), blocks (1.8), field goal percentage (74.4%), free throw percentage (87.5%), and fouls (9.1). That's quite an accomplishment for a skinny 18-year-old.

And of course Euroleague >>>>>>> NCAA. The fact that Jonas has been a very effective and efficient player as a skinny 18 year old is actually more encouraging than worrying IMO. Also, to say Jonas hasn't done much to warrant anything is funny considering Barnes hasn't done much himself. The only thing Barnes' shown is that he's a very limited player offensively. As for Barnes' performance in the tournament, he just shot like Bargnani and basically needed 20 shots to score 20. And of course he was terrible for 90% of the game against Kentucky before getting eliminated.

[Dr Positivity]

Neither Barnes or Jonas are dynamic players... at all. But I'd rather have a lunchbucket starting C than a lunchbucket starting SF. A 12/10/1.5 starting C is a win out of a draft pick. A 14/6 SF really isn't

[FluLikeSymptoms]

I think we could trade Demar for a 6-10 pick and get a SF there. I would like to have 3 rookie deals start next year rather than pay Derozan.

Its moves like this that are treadmill moves... In 3yrs ur just gonna be like trade lamb for a pick in the 6-10 range and den do it all over again...

This isn't a treadmill move if you feel Lamb is a better prospect than DeMar. I would hesitate to choose Lamb over DeMar simply because DeMar's actually proven, but Lamb's massive potential makes this a difficult decision.

It's the opposite of a treadmill move. Signing Demar to a near-max deal would be hopping on the treadmill.

If we did this we'd potentially have Ed, Jonas, Lamb, and a SF (MKG?) for a couple years to gel and then cap-space to sign an elite PG before extensions kick in.

[dTox]

His performance was solid but mind you this was an under 19 cup, he barely got minutes when he played for the Senior team. As for his season with Rytas, his rebounding has been a disappointing and is very foul prone, hasn't really done much this year to warrant anything. You are also forgetting that HB blew up in the 2nd half of last season and performed impressively at the tourny. If you compare this season's statistics for both of their performances for their respective clubs Barnes has a slight edge. And yes Jonas does have better length, but you are comparing a C to a SF, Barnes has the absolute perfect body for a SF and he hasn't even entered the league yet...Jonas is still skinny and frail (but a solid frame)...But again, good C are hard to come by that is why I am excited about Jonas, but to say he's a much better prospect than Barnes is very very arguable

Last year:

This year, he is competing in the highest level of European basketball in the Euroleague as well, and ranks as one of the top players in the competition on a per-40 minute basis in points (21.8), rebounds (13.6), blocks (1.8), field goal percentage (74.4%), free throw percentage (87.5%), and fouls (9.1). That's quite an accomplishment for a skinny 18-year-old.

And of course Euroleague >>>>>>> NCAA. The fact that Jonas has been a very effective and efficient player as a skinny 18 year old is actually more encouraging than worrying IMO. Also, to say Jonas hasn't done much to warrant anything is funny considering Barnes hasn't done much himself. The only thing Barnes' shown is that he's a very limited player offensively. As for Barnes' performance in the tournament, he just shot like Bargnani and basically needed 20 shots to score 20. And of course he was terrible for 90% of the game against Kentucky before getting eliminated.

This is a subjective argument but I think this year's Tarheels team would wipe the floor with Rytas, and the fact that Barnes is arguably their best scorer or go to guy says something about him. Jonas' rebounding numbers have gone down, last year he was a much better hustle guy - it's like he's conserving his body or something. And if you thought Barnes is limited then Jonas' offence is that much worse, Barnes has the ability to create and is a terrific shooter where as Jonas has yet to develop those skills. And again, its still early in the year and I do hope that Jonas does eventually become a better player than Barnes, but my main argument was against you saying that a GM should be fired for picking HB over Jonas, even though it maybe hyperbole its still a testament as to how much you think Jonas is a better prospect/player than barnes

[DreamTeam09]

Or we can have Demar Ed Jonas & a SF(Barnes / Qmiller) for a couple years to gel and then cap space to sign an elite pg before extensions kick in... Why give up on what we know now with Demar with what we see in College in Lamb. If treadmill means making moves w/o really going fwd, then that is a treadmill move. Lamb wouldn't have to be a little better than Demar to justify that, he'd have to be a superstar.

[fredericklove]

I'm actually really intrigued with Lamb. He's a shooting guard though, not sure how Demar would fair against SF's given his lack of wingspan.

I think we could trade Demar for a 6-10 pick and get a SF there. I would like to have 3 rookie deals start next year rather than pay Derozan.

And trade Ed for another rookie so we can have 4 rookies starting for our team, yay!

[Mr Swagtastic]

What the hell happened to Miller? Now he's ranked on some sites at #10 and some have him as a later lotto pick in the 15+ mark. Wow that guy must have had some really bad games. Right now I am on that Anthony Davis bandwagon what a talent that kid is going to be a very good PF hopefully he's a Raptor come draft night.

[delaney8]

I'm really having trouble getting on the Barnes bandwagon. I just don't see a guy that can create his own shot other than jacking up a jumper. That being said he is a very good jumpshooter. With a high pick though i want someone that can create for himself and others...

btw dtox... creating offence as a center vs. creating offence as a wing is completely different... i would don't expect a center to create much offence...