Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 2

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Or we can have Demar Ed Jonas & a SF(Barnes / Qmiller) for a couple years to gel and then cap space to sign an elite pg before extensions kick in... Why give up on what we know now with Demar with what we see in College in Lamb. If treadmill means making moves w/o really going fwd, then that is a treadmill move. Lamb wouldn't have to be a little better than Demar to justify that, he'd have to be a superstar.

It really depends on your views on Demar and Lamb, but $10+ million on the books won't help land a FA later.

I think he's a poor bet to carry the offense, like Bosh was, because there are just too many holes you need to fill in with other positions. Sure, he can score, you just need a ball handler/shooter/defender/rebounder/better player on either side of him and you're ready to go.

Lamb is a better bet as a more( near?) complete guard prospect IMO and the extra time is valuable. We have to think long term. He wouldn't have to be a superstar but I wouldn't put it past him.

[dTox]

I'm really having trouble getting on the Barnes bandwagon. I just don't see a guy that can create his own shot other than jacking up a jumper. That being said he is a very good jumpshooter. With a high pick though i want someone that can create for himself and others...

btw dtox... creating offence as a center vs. creating offence as a wing is completely different... i would don't expect a center to create much offence...

Sry what I meant to say was that Barnes as a SF is a much better player offensively relative to Jonas' offense as a C.

[TheAlchemist]

I think it's not a very logical move to trade a proven commodity for an unproven one.

Regardless of how great Lamb is, trading Derozan for him or a 6-10 pick is ludicrous. A backward move because Derozan has proven he can score at a nice clip in the NBA. The 6-10 pick hasn't even step foot in the NBA.

[5DOM]

This is a subjective argument but I think this year's Tarheels team would wipe the floor with Rytas, and the fact that Barnes is arguably their best scorer or go to guy says something about him.

This year's UNC team is certainly very good, but the players Barnes is facing are nowhere near the level Jonas played against last year. That Barnes is their go-to guy doesn't mean much considering he's become one by default.

Jonas' rebounding numbers have gone down, last year he was a much better hustle guy - it's like he's conserving his body or something.

Yeah, very possible that he's not 100% after not having any sort of break for months.

And if you thought Barnes is limited then Jonas' offence is that much worse, Barnes has the ability to create and is a terrific shooter where as Jonas has yet to develop those skills.

The offense I expect from my 3 is very different from my 5. And this is the first time I heard Barnes has the ability to create. Also, he may have the ability to shoot, but his poor shot selection is hurting his efficiency IMO. Meanwhile I think Jonas can easily become a very good shooter for his position considering he's converted the few of them at a high rate last year and that he is a very good FT shooter (even better than Barnes.

And again, its still early in the year and I do hope that Jonas does eventually become a better player than Barnes, but my main argument was against you saying that a GM should be fired for picking HB over Jonas, even though it maybe hyperbole its still a testament as to how much you think Jonas is a better prospect/player than barnes

Yeah I just meant that I think Jonas is a superior prospect to Barnes. I do agree that this is still very early in the year though.

[niQ]

I'm really having trouble getting on the Barnes bandwagon. I just don't see a guy that can create his own shot other than jacking up a jumper. That being said he is a very good jumpshooter. With a high pick though i want someone that can create for himself and others...

btw dtox... creating offence as a center vs. creating offence as a wing is completely different... i would don't expect a center to create much offence...

Sry what I meant to say was that Barnes as a SF is a much better player offensively relative to Jonas' offense as a C.

From what I've read, Barnes is not exactly the type to create for himself. Even Jon Givony (from DX via Rhettmatic's link) pointed out that he's much more of a catch-and-shoot player and doesn't get to the line enough and struggles as a shot-creator.

[dTox]

From the games that I have seen this year, Barnes' creativity is being held back by their coach. He's mainly used as a spot up shooter but I guess you can't fault the coach given that they have a really good pg who can distribute. And the fact that they also have very good offensive big men also gives them another reason to use Barnes as a spot up shooter, I think once March comes around and they play much more difficult competition we will see them use Barnes more as an offensive force.

On another note, why has Qmiller's stock dropped so damn low, I still think he's probably the best SF of this draft. If he does drop to 8-15 range I hope to God we get a second pick in this draft, maybe the great Chuck Hayes will get us that pick

[JamesNaismith]

As stated in an article dagger posted Harrison Barnes will be the Joe Johnson of SFs.

[Rapsfan07]

What the hell happened to Miller? Now he's ranked on some sites at #10 and some have him as a later lotto pick in the 15+ mark. Wow that guy must have had some really bad games. Right now I am on that Anthony Davis bandwagon what a talent that kid is going to be a very good PF hopefully he's a Raptor come draft night.

He didn't score much last game. I could be wrong but I think he was something like 1/2 from the field and 0/1 from 3pt land. He did have a few boards and 6asst though.

I hate the way Baylor uses him though. Pierre Jackson, PJ3 and Heslip get most of the teams shots while Quincy just swings the ball around the perimeter. I would like to see the ball in his hand a little more but if not, they should at least start running him off screens for open jumpers or something. He looks hesitant to put the ball on the floor and I'm not sure if it's because of the injury or fear of turning it over and getting benched but he seems to just be playing in the system and not really taking any looks for himself which I believe is hurting his draft stock. Baylor needs to give him more shots.

[Undefeated]

From the games that I have seen this year, Barnes' creativity is being held back by their coach. He's mainly used as a spot up shooter but I guess you can't fault the coach given that they have a really good pg who can distribute. And the fact that they also have very good offensive big men also gives them another reason to use Barnes as a spot up shooter, I think once March comes around and they play much more difficult competition we will see them use Barnes more as an offensive force.

Barnes is being used as a spot up shooter because that's all he can do; catch-and-shoot. On good days, he'll stroke those two dribble pull up jumpshots. He's leading the Tar Heels and his teammates by a fair margin in FGA, so I don't think he is being held back. More so of a very weak left hand dribble that is preventing him from creating his own offense and creativity. Every time I watch him dribble, it's almost exclusively his right hand. That's unacceptable coming from a wing. And John Henson and Tyler Zeller aren't exactly very good offensive big men imo.

[JamesNaismith]

What the hell happened to Miller? Now he's ranked on some sites at #10 and some have him as a later lotto pick in the 15+ mark. Wow that guy must have had some really bad games. Right now I am on that Anthony Davis bandwagon what a talent that kid is going to be a very good PF hopefully he's a Raptor come draft night.

He didn't score much last game. I could be wrong but I think he was something like 1/2 from the field and 0/1 from 3pt land. He did have a few boards and 6asst though.

I hate the way Baylor uses him though. Pierre Jackson, PJ3 and Heslip get most of the teams shots while Quincy just swings the ball around the perimeter. I would like to see the ball in his hand a little more but if not, they should at least start running him off screens for open jumpers or something. He looks hesitant to put the ball on the floor and I'm not sure if it's because of the injury or fear of turning it over and getting benched but he seems to just be playing in the system and not really taking any looks for himself which I believe is hurting his draft stock. Baylor needs to give him more shots.

Agree to an extent...I also think their system is basically "inside-outside" where they get the ball in the post to Acy or Jones; if not kick it out to Heslip for a 3ptr. Overall their offence doesn't seem to use any player; PG or wing, to create offence. Quincy may have to force the issue but risk being benched for not "sticking to the gameplan".

[Rapsfan07]

What the hell happened to Miller? Now he's ranked on some sites at #10 and some have him as a later lotto pick in the 15+ mark. Wow that guy must have had some really bad games. Right now I am on that Anthony Davis bandwagon what a talent that kid is going to be a very good PF hopefully he's a Raptor come draft night.

He didn't score much last game. I could be wrong but I think he was something like 1/2 from the field and 0/1 from 3pt land. He did have a few boards and 6asst though.

I hate the way Baylor uses him though. Pierre Jackson, PJ3 and Heslip get most of the teams shots while Quincy just swings the ball around the perimeter. I would like to see the ball in his hand a little more but if not, they should at least start running him off screens for open jumpers or something. He looks hesitant to put the ball on the floor and I'm not sure if it's because of the injury or fear of turning it over and getting benched but he seems to just be playing in the system and not really taking any looks for himself which I believe is hurting his draft stock. Baylor needs to give him more shots.

Agree to an extent...I also think their system is basically "inside-outside" where they get the ball in the post to Acy or Jones; if not kick it out to Heslip for a 3ptr. Overall their offence doesn't seem to use any player; PG or wing, to create offence. Quincy may have to force the issue but risk being benched for not "sticking to the gameplan".

A very worth-while risk to take every now and then if I'm Miller.

But this could be a blessing in disguise..I would look to acquire another pick for him if his stock remains this low. Picking him up in the 8-12 range would be a great move for our team. I still think he's the best SF on the board.

[dTox]

What I am afraid of is that Miller might decide to come back for another season to be The Man on his team and drive his draft stock up. 2013 draft isn't as strong and he has the potential to go top 3

[Pseudonym]

As stated in an article dagger posted Harrison Barnes will be the Joe Johnson of SFs.

No way, Barnes' passing game isn't sniffing Johnson's. He'll probably be a more high end Luol Deng, which is still a very good player-a fringe All-Star even, but definitely not a centerpiece.

[DreamTeam09]

From the games that I have seen this year, Barnes' creativity is being held back by their coach. He's mainly used as a spot up shooter but I guess you can't fault the coach given that they have a really good pg who can distribute. And the fact that they also have very good offensive big men also gives them another reason to use Barnes as a spot up shooter, I think once March comes around and they play much more difficult competition we will see them use Barnes more as an offensive force.

Barnes is being used as a spot up shooter because that's all he can do; catch-and-shoot. On good days, he'll stroke those two dribble pull up jumpshots. He's leading the Tar Heels and his teammates by a fair margin in FGA, so I don't think he is being held back. More so of a very weak left hand dribble that is preventing him from creating his own offense and creativity. Every time I watch him dribble, it's almost exclusively his right hand. That's unacceptable coming from a wing. And John Henson and Tyler Zeller aren't exactly very good offensive big men imo.

Zeller is a real advance offensive option actually. The game where he went for 30 this yr, he used every big man move possible.

[Mr Swagtastic]

What the hell happened to Miller? Now he's ranked on some sites at #10 and some have him as a later lotto pick in the 15+ mark. Wow that guy must have had some really bad games. Right now I am on that Anthony Davis bandwagon what a talent that kid is going to be a very good PF hopefully he's a Raptor come draft night.

He didn't score much last game. I could be wrong but I think he was something like 1/2 from the field and 0/1 from 3pt land. He did have a few boards and 6asst though.

I hate the way Baylor uses him though. Pierre Jackson, PJ3 and Heslip get most of the teams shots while Quincy just swings the ball around the perimeter. I would like to see the ball in his hand a little more but if not, they should at least start running him off screens for open jumpers or something. He looks hesitant to put the ball on the floor and I'm not sure if it's because of the injury or fear of turning it over and getting benched but he seems to just be playing in the system and not really taking any looks for himself which I believe is hurting his draft stock. Baylor needs to give him more shots.

Agree to an extent...I also think their system is basically "inside-outside" where they get the ball in the post to Acy or Jones; if not kick it out to Heslip for a 3ptr. Overall their offence doesn't seem to use any player; PG or wing, to create offence. Quincy may have to force the issue but risk being benched for not "sticking to the gameplan".

Well if his stock is falling like it is he might be a sleeper pickup for us that some teams pass up one like Ed Davis, DeRozan and Jonas V. I expect him to have a much better stock come draft night no way does either Jones (Terrence or Perry) go before Quincy.

[Undefeated]

Zeller is a real advance offensive option actually. The game where he went for 30 this yr, he used every big man move possible.

Come on, UNC-Asheville barley had any player on the floor who was above 6-7. The Tar Heels had a massive size advantage with Zeller and Henson, so I'd expect him to put up good scoring numbers. But I kid you not, Zeller is not an advance offensive option. He can barely catch the ball on entry passes, talk about hands of stone.

[DreamTeam09]

Draft day PJ3 goes b4 Q.Miller. I'll take that bet. Maybe even TJ too as he should right now.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Draft day PJ3 goes b4 Q.Miller. I'll take that bet. Maybe even TJ too as he should right now.

Ok watch PJ III turn into Anthony Randolph v.2 and flop on his face. The kid is stuck between 3 positions at a NBA level. Trust me Jones has the most bust potential out of the first 10-15 prospects on the boards. Quincy Miller will be picked before Jones watch what Miller will do when he's given the opportunity to do so

[dTox]

Draft day PJ3 goes b4 Q.Miller. I'll take that bet. Maybe even TJ too as he should right now.

Ok watch PJ III turn into Anthony Randolph v.2 and flop on his face. The kid is stuck between 3 positions at a NBA level. Trust me Jones has the most bust potential out of the first 10-15 prospects on the boards. Quincy Miller will be picked before Jones watch what Miller will do when he's given the opportunity to do so

I'm a bigger fan of Miller (on the Raps) than PJones, but he is no Anthony Randolph. Unlike Randolph he has offensive moves and a better shot, what he lacks is ability to grab rebounds at the PF position.

[DreamTeam09]

Draft day PJ3 goes b4 Q.Miller. I'll take that bet. Maybe even TJ too as he should right now.

Ok watch PJ III turn into Anthony Randolph v.2 and flop on his face. The kid is stuck between 3 positions at a NBA level. Trust me Jones has the most bust potential out of the first 10-15 prospects on the boards. Quincy Miller will be picked before Jones watch what Miller will do when he's given the opportunity to do so

PJ3 woulda been of been top 10 last yr and hes going to be top 10 dis yr. Q.miller had 5 games to play w/o PJ3 and he played good / decent / and whack during that time. Not to mention his injury concerns and all of a sudden things are looking like hes a 2yr player or a 1 and done late lottery potential pick. Bust factor or not, PJ3 has been like top 10 for the last 2yrs ri now. Not even a knock to Q.miller either, he'll always be 3rd on my raptor draft board big board.