Ding's take on D12 trade: Lakers should wait

[semi-sentient]

Kobe should definitely take a lesser role, but not lesser than Bynum who just isn't a franchise player. Gasol is also still a better offensive weapon since he's a far more capable passer and just as efficient scoring in the low post, with the added benefit of having a far superior mid-range game. At best Bynum is #3, and I don't think he's willing to accept that fact.

[TonyMontana]

Oh I forgot to mention........... Its not like Kobe's getting any younger either. His window is starting to close slowly. So as we get bounced in the second round and Kobes gets older and one of the most dominating centers in the game is on the table and he wants to play for big market team like the Lakers we sit aside and wait for Bynum to grow and get healthy.

Which is bigger pipe dream us getting D12 or Bynum staying healthy and becoming the next dominating center??

I think I know my answer.

[LLcoleJ]

I am definitely on the side of get Howard if we can. But the great thing about this is if we don't' we still contend.

[TonyMontana]

Kobe should definitely take a lesser role, but not lesser than Bynum who just isn't a franchise player. Gasol is also still a better offensive weapon since he's a far more capable passer and just as efficient scoring in the low post, with the added benefit of having a far superior mid-range game. At best Bynum is #3, and I don't think he's willing to accept that fact.

That, but also the Lakers are thinking about post Kobe as well. When Kobe is all said and done who can carry this team. Who will be our franchise player to build around. Definantly not Bynum.

[b shaw20]

Kobe also in a interview that Bynum has to wait his turn cause he gotta eat. I do not agree with what he said and if I was Bynum I would want to leave.

He's right. We can't build our offense around a guy that hasn't shown he can play a full season or handle heavy minutes. Bynum's role is to defend the basket, and we would be much better off if he focused on that instead of worrying about how many points he can score.

If we get Dwight, you can bet his offensive numbers are going to take a dip because we don't need him to score as much as he does now. It's the same with Bynum since there are better options on offense.

The fact remains that no matter how in shape, productive and dominant Drew may be, he will never be the first option as long as Kobe and Gasol are on the team. I sympathize with Drew because he's put forth the work and just wants to contribute. Sadly enough, our guards oftentimes CHOOSE to jack up perimeter shots instead of taking advantage of our size. Against both the Hornets and Dallas, we were at out best when we went inside. But against Dallas, we were made to pay for trying to out shoot a better shooting team.

The scenario sounds much like Bryant/Shaq when he simply stated (in 2004) that he was not going to "tame" his game because he worked too hard and wanted to show it. I am not suggesting he needs to be the 1st option by any stretch, but simply stating that its easy to see we ofet tend to under utilize our size advantage. The idea that he simply needs to defend and rebound is a double standard. What about Bryant or Fisher holding up their end of the bargain by being better defenders? Their game has slipped since their prime yeras and need to start realizing that the torch needs to be passed. By this I mean, Fisher off the bench, much less minutes and Bryant realizing he needs to be more efficient in his scoring.

[Sedale Threatt]

Some good points, but it comes down to capabilities.

Fish and Bryant are no longer capable of being lockdown guys. Even at their peak, when Kobe was excellent and Fish was good, it's virtually impossible for a perimeter player to have the impact that a dominant, shot-blocking, rebound-inhaling, teammate-helping big can have.

Nobody's asking Andrew to not shoot or score. It's a matter of priorities -- and unfortunately, Andrew's don't always seem to be in order. He's the only guy on our roster who is capable of doing what he can on defense.

It's just a matter of recognizing that and doing it on a consistent basis.

[b shaw20]

Some good points, but it comes down to capabilities.

Fish and Bryant are no longer capable of being lockdown guys. Even at their peak, when Kobe was excellent and Fish was good, it's virtually impossible for a perimeter player to have the impact that a dominant, shot-blocking, rebound-inhaling, teammate-helping big can have.

Nobody's asking Andrew to not shoot or score. It's a matter of priorities -- and unfortunately, Andrew's don't always seem to be in order. He's the only guy on our roster who is capable of doing what he can on defense.

It's just a matter of recognizing that and doing it on a consistent basis.

I get that, but Fish and Bryant ARE cabable of making better decisions when it comes to the offense. Their shooting percentages are garbage. In the past, we've been able to overcome Fisher because his number of shots are many. But Bryant's 11-27, 10-25 have to stop. They hurt the team and despite Jackson's pleas, Kobe kept Jacking. I'd love to see game by game stats and would bet good dollars that less than 25% of the time he was 47% or better.

Yes, Danny I agree that he needs to just do his thing on defense. I am just saying, that I don't have enough fingers to point at our flaws. More importantly, my biggest peave despite that some of our key guys are older is that "shot selection" is within our control and we refuse to see that.

[b shaw20]

On the Howard vs CP3 debate, undertsanding that Bryant will continue to be Bryant. Howard is a better fit for this team simply because he is a bit more passive and willing to play second fiddle to 24. IMO CP3 is as competative as Kobe and as a point guard and having better leadership qualities, will naturally try and lead the team on the floor.

As a ball dominating guard and a premier play maker, he will command the ball. Question is, will Bryant adjust and play a true "2 guard" role where all he will focus on is catching and shooting and creating for himself? Given his stubborness, I am not sure....BUT if he did, CP3 could make him way more efficient and add years to his game as Bryant load will lessen considerably playing with Paul.

Bottom line, how much help does really Kobe want now and going forward?

[dub81]

On the Howard vs CP3 debate, undertsanding that Bryant will continue to be Bryant. Howard is a better fit for this team simply because he is a bit more passive and willing to play second fiddle to 24. IMO CP3 is as competative as Kobe and as a point guard and having better leadership qualities, will naturally try and lead the team on the floor.

As a ball dominating guard and a premier play maker, he will command the ball. Question is, will Bryant adjust and play a true "2 guard" role where all he will focus on is catching and shooting and creating for himself? Given his stubborness, I am not sure....BUT if he did, CP3 could make him way more efficient and add years to his game as Bryant load will lessen considerably playing with Paul.

Bottom line, how much help does really Kobe want now and going forward?

I agree 1000%....but it's up to our Coach to tame the tiger. If Kobe start jacking up shots this year. I believe it's time to bench him. Phil did not do that last year and I was pissed.

[b shaw20]

Dub81,

Phil couldn't do it, JWest did it temporarily, Shaq and veterans couldn't do it, Magic couldn't do it, the Pope couldn't do it. Kobe has a no trade cluase and can basically do what ever the hell he wants. The issue is made worse by the fact that the more people tell him he can't, his compatative nature will try and prove others wrong (to be fair I think the finger injury also contributed). But he continues to fire away even when his shot is not there.

I doubt Brown will influence him or has the balls to bench Bryant when he gets out of line. I think our success ultimately likes on Bryant's "buy in" to Brown's philosophy.

[snaquille oatmeal]

I am definitely on the side of get Howard if we can. But the great thing about this is if we don't' we still contend.

...and this is why Phil is a global mod, he knows his ish. /thread

[dockingsched]

bynum time.

[Tekkenlaw]

If you can make the trade you take it. I don't want Bynum on the court for one minute if Dwight is available, if he got injured Dwight is off the table for good.

It's not like Bynum has any more of the winning attitude that Dwight gets ragged on for supposedly lacking.

That said, I'm excited to see what Bynum can do this year if Dwight isn't actually on the table.