HOLY F, NEW CBA LOOPHOLE!

[stuporman]

So does this mean there are years after the contract length where these players are still getting paid but not still playing under that contract for the team? So if they move on to another team they still get paid some from the original team?

Or is there more years that have to be played tacked on with max % escalators to make up the difference so in the end they get what the originally signed for plus paid for the additional years? I can't see how the NBPA would let the CBA include a provision that allows their players negotiate down out of salary without them somehow getting in the back end.

[suicidedeuce]

So does this mean there are years after the contract length where these players are still getting paid but not still playing under that contract for the team? So if they move on to another team they still get paid some from the original team?

I'd be shocked if that was the case. I have a hard time imagining any circumstance in which the league would let active players start piling on concurrent contracts.

As I interpret it, you can turn a 3 year $15m contract into a 4 year $15 contract, if you choose, to the max contract length according to your Bird status.

Meaning next year, if they choose, Melo and Stat could convert their remaining 3 years into 5 years, if they so choose, delaying their free agency or eligibility to sign a new contract for 2 years.

I do not think they can just take less during their remaining 3 year and then sign a new max in year 4.

[kane2021]

Z-Bo's contract was written in a way that allowed him concurrent payments. He was paid less than his cap hit, and continues to receive payments beyond the contracts cap expiration.

The wording here also calls it a extension. So you can take 40% of what is being paid, and extend the years on the contract to cover that 40% leaving you with less annual salary but a longer contract. It all comes out to be the same money.

So in theory it sounds like you are asking a guy to play a longer term, for the same amount of money. So I dont think many NBA players will be jumping at that.

I also doubt that you can take 40% of one year only, say 2012, and then add that 40% on at the end as a new year. Dont seem fair cap wise. And again, you are getting a free year or playing a year for free.

I could be reading it wrong. But I dont think this is a super loop hole. If it works they way I am understanding it, it sounds like players have the option to open up cap space for their team, in exchange for free labor.

[suicidedeuce]

I could be reading it wrong. But I dont think this is a super loop hole. If it works they way I am understanding it, it sounds like players have the option to open up cap space for their team, in exchange for free labor.

Remember, it was a B-list item and no one (particularly Larry Coon) is jumping on it as a game-changing part of the new CBA.

I appreciate what the Miami guys did, but as far as Melo and Stat goes, the horse has left the stable. I have a hard time seeing them essentially forfeit a season or 2 of their earnings years after the fact.

[stuporman]

So does this mean there are years after the contract length where these players are still getting paid but not still playing under that contract for the team? So if they move on to another team they still get paid some from the original team?

I'd be shocked if that was the case. I have a hard time imagining any circumstance in which the league would let active players start piling on concurrent contracts.

As I interpret it, you can turn a 3 year $15m contract into a 4 year $15 contract, if you choose, to the max contract length according to your Bird status.

Meaning next year, if they choose, Melo and Stat could convert their remaining 3 years into 5 years, if they so choose, delaying their free agency or eligibility to sign a new contract for 2 years.

I do not think they can just take less during their remaining 3 year and then sign a new max in year 4.

For the Knicks and teams trying to fit more talent in that's great news... but I really don't think the NBPA lets something like that slide into the CBA. Letting players renegotiate to take less money? It would set up the the Knicks to get Chandler this season and the have those three players, the two wedding toasters plus an old good friend from days gone by, squeeze in BFF Chris Paul next summer while not letting anyone including the youth go.

That would fly in the face of the competitive balance cries from owners and be out and out blasphemy for the player union. I just don't see it being as such. There must be something we are missing, a big something. Otherwise what Grunnie, with Donnie in the shadows, did deserves to have their suits raised into the rafters at MSG. Although doesn't prevent other teams having of doing the same as well.

It just seems like it's too good to be true, and you know that old saying.

[stuporman]

I could be reading it wrong. But I dont think this is a super loop hole. If it works they way I am understanding it, it sounds like players have the option to open up cap space for their team, in exchange for free labor.

Remember, it was a B-list item and no one (particularly Larry Coon) is jumping on it as a game-changing part of the new CBA.

I appreciate what the Miami guys did, but as far as Melo and Stat goes, the horse has left the stable. I have a hard time seeing them essentially forfeit a season or 2 of their earnings years after the fact.

What stops them from doing it this season to create space for next summer? Obviously they can't give back money already paid but the contract isn't done yet. What stops them then? All three of them could for the subsequent years coming up to open space to sign CP this summer.

[suicidedeuce]

Why wouldn't they let them do it? Why would the NBPA object. It's not mandatory. Can't be forced on a player.

The applications are fairly limited, and will likely be very rarely exercised.

To a degree, the whole clause it robbing peter to pay paul.

[suicidedeuce]

What stops them from doing it this season to create space for next summer? Obviously they can't give back money already paid but the contract isn't done yet. What stops them then? All three of them could for the subsequent years coming up to open space to sign CP this summer.

Nothing stops them.

I suspect forfeiting years of their prime careers is unlikely, but is Stat wants to take his remaining $64m over 5 years instead of 3, and sacrifice the additional $45m he could potentially earn in those 4 or 5th years when he would have been eligible for a new contract, i suspect the league will let them.

There is nothing wrong with having the freedom to shoot yourself in the foot if you want to.

That's just the libertarian in me speaking I guess.

[stuporman]

I guess this would test their 'friendships', see how bad they really want to play together, see how committed they are to winning or is it just words they float out to the media and really only care about themselves and their bank accounts.

[suicidedeuce]

I guess this would test their 'friendships', see how bad they really want to play together, see how committed they are to winning or is it just words they float out to the media and really only care about themselves and their bank accounts.

Well, I'm not certain Stoudemire can be fairly counted in that equation. He's not Paul's best friend. He's not a CAA guy. He came here before the Miami guys apparently altered everyone's perception about how superstar NBA players should act.

Somewhat ironic this is happening the same day Albert Pujols signed a $250m dollar deal. Wonder if he left any on the table for CJ Wilson?

Stars will leave money on the table again in the NBA sooner or later, but if fans are now expectant that this be the norm, and that all free agents sign for below market value to help their team manage the cap, I suspect we're going to see an explosion of embittered NBA fans.

[kosmovitelli]

new "renegotiation and extension" provision allows an existing contract to be renegotiated so the player is paid a smaller amount over a longer period, but the player's salary cannot decrease by more than 40 percent. Renegotiations previously could only increase a player's salary.

Both sides agreed on that but we need to wait for a copy of the CBA and the exact terms of the rule to know if it can help the Knicks.

For what it's worth, the current rule for renegotiation of a contract specifies that only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract and only a contract for four or more seasons can be renegotiated after the third anniversary of its signing, extension. It could be the same under the new CBA.
For a renegotiation, under the previous CBA, the salary for the current season could be increased only to the extent that the team had room under the cap. I guess for a renegotation downward the limit will be 40% (as obviously the room under the cap has no impact if the player is willing to take less money). Under the previous CBA, raises in subsequent years were limited to 10.5% of the salary in the first renegotiated season.

Let's say the rule is similar. For example, a player with two seasons and $20 millions left on his contract ($10 mil per season) could accept to renegotiate a current season salary at $6 million but his salary after that can only increase or decrease by the max (7.5% for Bird players). So even if the player can sign an extension and be paid a smaller amount over a longer period, I doubt lots of players will be willing to do that. And if a player is willing to accept that it will probably be to take a couple of millions less and sign for more years. A player won't forfeit the money if he can't recoup that money over a longer period.

With my example, if a player with two years and $20 million left on his contract accepts a renegotation/extension and a new salary of $6 million for the current season then he can sign a three-year extension (under the previous CBA, extensions were limited to five years including the years remaining on the contract). As the player had two years left, he can sign a three-year extension (if it's the same rule). Also as there's a renegotation, the salary for the second season has to be amended. If the new salary is down by 40% it's $6 million, add an annual max raise of 7.5% and you get an additional $450,000 each year so the player would get $34.5 million for five seasons (instead of $20 millions for only two seasons) with max annual raises. Is it worth it for the player ? He gets an additional $14.5 million for three additional seasons. It's less than $5 mil per season for the extension. The player could get that money with the MLE maybe.

For those who think Melo or Amare could accept less money, stop fooling yourselves ! Melo wanted to be traded before the deadline because he absolutely wanted an extend and trade in order to get the max money he could get. The guy won't forfeit money. For max players, their salary is also a way to measure how good they are and how much they're worth to their team. Also if a max player takes less money, he can't recoup that money because there's the max increase (7.5% rule) after you take a 40% paycut when renegotiation.
Melo signed an extension until 2015 with 10.5% raises (same with Amare), none of them will take a paycut and accept to be downgraded to a %7.5 annual raise even if it means they can sign for more years with an extension.
Especially considering the fact you could sign an extension or renegotation only after three years under the previous CBA. I guess it's the same with the new CBA (no reason to change that) and if a player agrees to take less money with an extension/renegotiation he will have to wait three years for a new extension or renegotiation.

It's clearly not a loophole, it's simply a rule giving more salary cap flexibility to NBA teams. It would be a loophole if the contract could be renegotiated without an extension. As you still need to sign an extension and you can't exceed the max increase or decrease of 7.5%, if a player accepts a 40% paycut then he will need to sign a long extension to recoup the money. With my previous exemple of a $10 million player accepting a 40% paycut and a salary of $6 million, he gets $6,450,000 the second season and $6,900,000 the third season so his salary for the first three seasons is $19,350,000, he still hasn't recouped his $20 million. He has to sign at least a two year extension to recoup his money. For his team, that's a lot of money, sure you save $4 million the first season and you may have enough cap room to sign a free agent but you will have the same player for two more years than originally scheduled. You can have cap room now but there's a cap hit in the future with the extension. Is it worth it for the player ? Is it worth if for the team?

You need to find a situation where both the player and the team have a good reason to accept a renegotiation/extension. Contrary to popular belief it's not a loophole and I doubt lots of teams will make agreements like that.

[BernardKing]

This has been a rollercoaster day. One of the strangest days in NBA history on top of these new cap provisions... Things are just starting to get interesting. More intrigue to come I'm sure.

[BernardKing]

Multiple sources report that the salary cap figure will remain level this season, at $58 million, and projections are that the cap for the 2012-13 season would be approximately $60 million to $61 million.
“That’s what we’ve been discussing, though the exact dollar amount is not set until the new deal is done,’’ one league source said.

thats the elephant in the room id say. what if the cap goes up to $60mil?

Link Please

[alphad0gz]

This board has to be the most unrealistic board on Realgm. There is NO player(s) that is sacrificing the MILLIONS of dollars that you guys are suggesting they would. We're talking about a lot of damn money. Ain't happening.....move on, dreamers.

[Jmonty580]

This board has to be the most unrealistic board on Realgm. There is NO player(s) that is sacrificing the MILLIONS of dollars that you guys are suggesting they would. We're talking about a lot of damn money. Ain't happening.....move on, dreamers.

Pretty much. IF we sign Chandler, I'm ready to let the CP3 dream go. We got our team, lets fill in the holes and paly some serious ball.

[gelek]

I don't believe for one second that they will do it, but it would be kind of possible to get them together if they all took a bit less.

in 2012:

Stat 3 yrs for 60m$ left turns into 5 yrs for 70m$
Melo dito
Chandler 3 yrs for 46$m into 5 yrs for 55m$
Fields/Shump/TD/Capholds for about 7m$

would leave between 12 (at sc of 58m) and 15 for another player(s) conceivably a pissed off CP3 that wants to show off Stern and has basically only us and the Clippers as alternatives once Howard & Deron form the Brooklyn Nyets.

We would be ultimately commited and be in cap hell for the long haul but the team would look really nice

Paul - TD23 (if kept)
Fields (resigned with early bird to mle-level?) - Shumpert
Melo - ???
Stat - ???
Chandler- Jordan - Harellson

with some kind of exception (Mini MLE since we technically would have been under the cap at the start of the signing period?) to address the backup SF/PF spots (maybe Duncan wants another ring? lol)
and if we don't keep douglas, there is always the fact that Nash bought a House in NY...

Of course it's almost certainly a pipe dream but one that technically could happen...

More likely we'll use this years and next years MLE to get solid pieces like a pass-first PG and some Backup Bigs.

[mg]

It's not happening...

Hell LeBron is CP3's best friend. Maybe he will convince Wade and Bosh to take a 40% paycut to bring CP3 to Miami