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Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis

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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1161 » by dobrojim » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:42 am

closg00 wrote:Grunfeld was able to take advantage of several desperate GM's just as he was taken advantage of several times when the show was on the other foot. Grunfeld's self-clean-up is exceeding my expectations. Let's see how his recent draft picks work-out.



that's the bottom line right there - that said, luck does play a part

just ask the folks in Portland about that although there were those
that said - after Durrant hit every shot in his workout - that Portland
should have taken him over Oden - but the consensus pick was Oden.
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1162 » by GhostsOfGil » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:28 am

tontoz wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Billups made it pretty clear that he was going to be a disruptive factor for any team that claimed him. I think that's a pretty good reason to stay the hell away from him.



Really? What did he say. I missed it.



Y! Sports: Chauncey Billups warns teams against claiming him off amnesty wire, wants freedom: "This is about me now." http://tinyurl.com/7duycsl

Billups wants freedom to choose team. Warns those who'd claim him: You'll regret it. "I'm tired of being the glue guy." Story soon on Y!
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1163 » by tontoz » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:41 am

LOLWTF. So you dont want to be the glue guy? Perhaps you would prefer to be the unemployed guy. I hear Iverson could use some company in Turkey.

I guess he hired Sprewell to be his career advisor. Nice to see Sprewell finally got a job.

Looks like i stand corrected. :ouch:
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1164 » by hands11 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:36 am

dobrojim wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:With Orlando amnestying Arenas, I think it's safe to say that the Wizards got the best of this trade, by a whole lot. Orlando is going to have to pay $62M to amnesty that contract. Lewis is only owed about $34M. So that's a savings of a whopping $28M, not to mention that Lewis was a better player than Arenas last year.


Since Ted took over, and beginning with the Antawn Jamison trade; Ernie Grunfeld has been making good to great moves.

Post-Ted, the Wizards overall have done an excellent job on roster moves, IMO.

The Arenas/Lewis deal is right at the top of the good moves; with Hinrich in exchange for cap relief, ( when Bibby asked out), Jamal Crawford, plus the pick which turned out to be Chris Singleton.


Great post CCJ. But it raises a question in my mind...you have been pretty hard
on Flip as a coach. If GMEG is smart enough to make a number of good-great
roster moves, why don't you think he's smart enough to recognize that
(in your mind) Flip isn't doing such a great job? I hope you don't feel like I'm
picking on you with that question. Just askin


In short. Yes. People have been to hard on EG and Flip.

EG has done great job ever since he was no longer Abe's GM.
Flip. Well he has had a ton of crap to deal including a total rebuild and lots of baby sitting.
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1165 » by miller31time » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:44 am

zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:
tontoz wrote:
Ruzious wrote:Billups made it pretty clear that he was going to be a disruptive factor for any team that claimed him. I think that's a pretty good reason to stay the hell away from him.



Really? What did he say. I missed it.



Y! Sports: Chauncey Billups warns teams against claiming him off amnesty wire, wants freedom: "This is about me now." http://tinyurl.com/7duycsl

Billups wants freedom to choose team. Warns those who'd claim him: You'll regret it. "I'm tired of being the glue guy." Story soon on Y!


He's lost it. Absolutely lost it.
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1166 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:52 am

dobrojim wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
nate33 wrote:With Orlando amnestying Arenas, I think it's safe to say that the Wizards got the best of this trade, by a whole lot. Orlando is going to have to pay $62M to amnesty that contract. Lewis is only owed about $34M. So that's a savings of a whopping $28M, not to mention that Lewis was a better player than Arenas last year.


Since Ted took over, and beginning with the Antawn Jamison trade; Ernie Grunfeld has been making good to great moves.

Post-Ted, the Wizards overall have done an excellent job on roster moves, IMO.

The Arenas/Lewis deal is right at the top of the good moves; with Hinrich in exchange for cap relief, ( when Bibby asked out), Jamal Crawford, plus the pick which turned out to be Chris Singleton.


Great post CCJ. But it raises a question in my mind...you have been pretty hard
on Flip as a coach. If GMEG is smart enough to make a number of good-great
roster moves, why don't you think he's smart enough to recognize that
(in your mind) Flip isn't doing such a great job? I hope you don't feel like I'm
picking on you with that question. Just askin


I don't think so at all, jim. Funny you should ask this. I never considered EG might want to go against the guy he hired, or that either guy wasn't sky-high in support of Andray Blatche. Interesting take, jim.

I've had a couple thoughts about Grunfeld as GM recently:

One, that Lyrical Rico was right--Ernie is a good GM. I hate his draft picks for the most part, but they almost always do end up being talented. I like his trades POST ABE. The team vision under Leonsis is something Ernie seems to be running with. In retrospect, EG was right to try to hire Mike Thibodeau as an assistant coach. Draft history and deals in the Abe era notwithstanding, I really do trust EG now.

Second, if Flip fails to make decent progress this season, I have no problems seeing Saunders only fired and Ernie Grunfeld retained. All is forgiven over gun gate. Ernie knows what he's doing. If the Wizards were to can Flip and hire Dave Joerger, this team will become really good in a hurry IMO. Ernie's put pieces into place nicely (save for getting a shooter and a post threat at PF). I think the team just needs the right coach now.

Flip needs to show he can build some positive momentum and make progress this season. If he doesn't and EG sends him packing but stays, I will probably be okay with it.
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1167 » by JonathanJoseph » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:03 am

miller31time wrote:
He's lost it. Absolutely lost it.


Seriously? Because by being a jerk for a day or so, he gets to make additional money (a new contract) and gets to pick his destination, so it looks like he knows exactly what he's doing.

Am I missing something?
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1168 » by JonathanJoseph » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:22 am

Going to link this here for lack of a better place.

If you want to know why players play and GMs GM, here you go: Dwight Howard did not want Gilbert Arenas to be waived via amnesty


https://twitter.com/#!/MagicInsider/statuses/145684321964007425
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1169 » by willbcocks » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:25 am

With Arenas amnestied, it's clear that the Wizards brass "won" this trade. They saved 28 million, neither player was productive, and Shard probably ended up a better teammate for the team we have than Gil would have (because our star player is a pg, I don't think Gil's a cancer).

As fans, we won very little: no gained cap space and both players suck. But with Gil's play on the magic as evidence, I don't think Gil would have improved his value during the year and netted us anything more than Shard.

I hope Gil can find a niche now that he no longer has that albatross contract.
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1170 » by Nivek » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:46 pm

I understand what Billups is saying. Obviously, it would have been better for him to not say it, but his message is clear: he wants to choose his next team. He doesn't want to be claimed by anyone -- he wants to pick. And, he's willing to be unemployed (retired) if he doesn't get to pick. He's not after money, he's after the right to choose.
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1171 » by fishercob » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:51 pm

JonathanJoseph wrote:Going to link this here for lack of a better place.

If you want to know why players play and GMs GM, here you go: Dwight Howard did not want Gilbert Arenas to be waived via amnesty


https://twitter.com/#!/MagicInsider/statuses/145684321964007425



Are you still of the position that the Arenas trade was terrible for the Wizards?
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1172 » by MF23 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:24 pm

go'stags wrote:
Not because he is selfish, but because that is his comfort zone.He needs to be free to attack. We saw him struggle under Flip when the whole offense was under his control. He sometimes struggles to know when to set his teammates up and when to score for himself. Hes not instinctive, and in a high pressure situation like in NY with the Knicks ...I think he would be better off in Charlotte or wherever.


I agree with this. Last season was the first time since Golden State that he wasn't the focal point of his offense. He struggled with that. I don't think his ego can take playing in a small market. I don't know other than the Heat or Lakers where I feel Gilbert would defer to the better players and be content in that role. The dude loves attention and if he's with a different type of squad he's going to want to be the man. GM's probably aren't comfortable with that. If he went to a Charlotte type he'd want to be the number 1 option. That's who he is and how that would play out would be a potential headache.
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1173 » by Nivek » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:30 pm

By the way -- the widely reported salary numbers on Rashard aren't exactly accurate. They include incentives. And, those incentives are almost exclusively for stuff like making the Finals -- stuff that he has zero chance of doing with Washington.

If Washington amnesties him next off-season, his payoff would be a little more than $18 million. His amnestied cap number would be in the neighborhood of $13.6 million.

That Arenas trade looks better and better.
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1174 » by tontoz » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:02 pm

I have a news flash for Billups, he isn't going to be anything more than a glue guy no matter where he goes. Does he really think he will have a bigger role on a good team than he has had in Denver and NY? If that is what he believes then he needs a checkup from the neck up.
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1175 » by nate33 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:23 pm

Nivek wrote:By the way -- the widely reported salary numbers on Rashard aren't exactly accurate. They include incentives. And, those incentives are almost exclusively for stuff like making the Finals -- stuff that he has zero chance of doing with Washington.

If Washington amnesties him next off-season, his payoff would be a little more than $18 million. His amnestied cap number would be in the neighborhood of $13.6 million.

That Arenas trade looks better and better.

Nivek, I've been looking for details on his incentive arrangement for 8 months now. The best I found was a mention by Peter Vescey, not exactly a reliable source. Where did you get this information?

I'm a little confused as to the mechanics of the last year of his contract. It is my understanding from Peter Vescey (now confirmed by you) that the lower end of his salary guarantee is in the neighborhood of $13.6M. The upper end of his guaranteed salary is $17.2M. And his actual stated salary is $22.7M. If the Wizards amnesty him now, I assume they would owe him his entire 2011/12 salary of $21.1M plus some amount of his guaranteed 2012/13 salary. Which 2012/13 salary figure would they use?

Another question: Let's assume the Wizards keep him for this entire year and they're sitting around next summer trying to make a decision on Lewis. They way I understand things, there would be three possible scenarios:
1. Keep him and pay him $22.7M (or would it cost less?).
2. Buy him out and pay him the lower limit of his guaranteed salary of $13.6M, which would count against the cap.
3. Amnesty him and pay him the upper limit of his guaranteed salary of $17.2M, which would not count against the cap.

Do I have it right?
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1176 » by pancakes3 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:43 pm

tontoz wrote:I have a news flash for Billups, he isn't going to be anything more than a glue guy no matter where he goes. Does he really think he will have a bigger role on a good team than he has had in Denver and NY? If that is what he believes then he needs a checkup from the neck up.


glue guy in the sense that he doesn't want to be the mentor - the steady presence - the leader by example for a bunch of new guys - aka our team. he wants to be Mr. Big Shot again and nail 3's for championship caliber teams. he wants to go to the lakeshow, heat, or be resigned by the knicks for the vet min and run point for a championship squad.

i think ideally he wants to be resigned by the knicks but who knows if that's even legally possible. it's not about role, it's about rings. he doesn't want to get claimed and waste his precious remaining years in minny playing 27mpg, sharing time with rubio. who can blame him? he's a finals MVP who put up a PER of ~19 last season. He's still got gas in the tank and he wants to win with a bunch of guys who are ready to win - not babysit.

who can't sympathize? he's made roughly 85 million dollars in his career. he's got maybe 2 solid years left. i'd be vocal about not getting claimed by a lotto team either - especially minny.
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1177 » by tontoz » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:24 pm

pancakes3 wrote:
tontoz wrote:I have a news flash for Billups, he isn't going to be anything more than a glue guy no matter where he goes. Does he really think he will have a bigger role on a good team than he has had in Denver and NY? If that is what he believes then he needs a checkup from the neck up.


glue guy in the sense that he doesn't want to be the mentor - the steady presence - the leader by example for a bunch of new guys - aka our team. he wants to be Mr. Big Shot again and nail 3's for championship caliber teams. he wants to go to the lakeshow, heat, or be resigned by the knicks for the vet min and run point for a championship squad.

i think ideally he wants to be resigned by the knicks but who knows if that's even legally possible. it's not about role, it's about rings. he doesn't want to get claimed and waste his precious remaining years in minny playing 27mpg, sharing time with rubio. who can blame him? he's a finals MVP who put up a PER of ~19 last season. He's still got gas in the tank and he wants to win with a bunch of guys who are ready to win - not babysit.

who can't sympathize? he's made roughly 85 million dollars in his career. he's got maybe 2 solid years left. i'd be vocal about not getting claimed by a lotto team either - especially minny.



He said he is tired of being the glue guy. How would he be tired of it if it hasnt experienced it yet? If he is tired of being the glue guy then that tells me that he has seen himself as the glue guy for the last few years.
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1178 » by nate33 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:20 pm

I don't think he meant that he thinks he should be the star. I think he really meant that he's sick of being the "good guy" who never complains and always sets an example for his teammates. He's saying he's tired of being selfless for the organization and this time he wants to be selfish and join a team where he WANTS to play.

I can understand his sentiment though I don't like the precedent that it sets. The whole point of the amnesty bidding process was to prevent players from joining superteams. It's one thing if a player chooses to play for a superteam and takes a pay cut in the process, but in this scenario, Billups is going to get paid the full value of his contract either way.
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1179 » by go'stags » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:18 pm

Umm, if he wants to pick his spot, then he can do it when he is a free agent--you know, after the contract he signed is over. Oh, and after he made 14 million.

I would only claim him to trade him anyway.
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Re: Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis 

Post#1180 » by tontoz » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:57 pm

go'stags wrote:Umm, if he wants to pick his spot, then he can do it when he is a free agent--you know, after the contract he signed is over. Oh, and after he made 14 million.

I would only claim him to trade him anyway.



Seriously if he wants to give up the $14 million he is scheduled to make this season (actually less due to the lockout) then sure he can pick his team. Otherwise STFU and play.

I don't see him volunteering to give up the money that the highest bidder pays for him. Couldn't he technically be bought out after being amnestied? In other words if a team bids $3 million and gets him couldn't he be bought out by that team if they couldn't trade him and he refuses to play?
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