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Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford?

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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#601 » by KnicksFan007 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:46 pm

Falstaffxx wrote:
Knicker23 wrote:People who would turn down Crawford are still in the pre-Chandler mindset days of not getting all we can get.... If Bibby is available, you get him in our situation.... If Crawford is available, you get him in our situation...... JJ and Baron as well [probably more so than Crawford]... Just like the Heat.


Bibby was a vet minimum signing. Crawford is a trade so you have to weigh the value of what we'd be giving up.

Exactly but we don't know what we are giving up and if It's Toney then it isn't much and people already tried trading him in different senarios on this board already. So, It's a moot argument to hate a trade involving him now.

I could understand if it involves more than Douglas and someone like Fields or something but If your getting a Sixth man then you cannot argue that it betters the team.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#602 » by Rasho Brezec » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:47 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:Anyone who endorses Toney Douglas as the starting point guard for a contender, doesn't really want to win.


Whether or not to trade Douglas for Crawford doesn't have anything to do with whether you want Douglas as starting point guard.


I have said Toney won't have the ball, so it has zero to with me personally.

Melo will be running the offense.

The discussion of Jamal Crawford is the conception that he WOULD be replacing TD as the starter, whereas I believe he is best as the sixth man.

If we trade Toney, who starts then?
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#603 » by god shammgod » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:47 pm

Falstaffxx wrote:
Da_Mane_Man wrote:the ONLY thing that concerns me about this move is that i read somewhere that crawford wants to be promised a starting spot wherever he signs. that would be AWFUL. he needs the ball in his hands way too much to be able to play with melo and stat. as good as i think this move would be to have him as our 6th man, it would be 10x worse if he were brought here to start.


If we trade for Crawford, it's obviously to make him our starting shooting guard.


he's definitely gonna start.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#604 » by Thugger HBC » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:47 pm

Da_Mane_Man wrote:the ONLY thing that concerns me about this move is that i read somewhere that crawford wants to be promised a starting spot wherever he signs. that would be AWFUL. he needs the ball in his hands way too much to be able to play with melo and stat. as good as i think this move would be to have him as our 6th man, it would be 10x worse if he were brought here to start.


I find that weird since I remember Crawford being reported as whatever the team needed.

Definitely the case for the Blazers, when he was rumored there.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#605 » by Falstaffxx » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:48 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:Anyone who endorses Toney Douglas as the starting point guard for a contender, doesn't really want to win.


Whether or not to trade Douglas for Crawford doesn't have anything to do with whether you want Douglas as starting point guard.


I have said Toney won't have the ball, so it has zero to with me personally.

Melo will be running the offense.

The discussion of Jamal Crawford is the conception that he WOULD be replacing TD as the starter, whereas I believe he is best as the sixth man.


Crawford would be brought in to be our starting shooting guard. He won't be a bench guy behind Fields or Shumpert.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#606 » by Li'l Penny » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:48 pm

Fury wrote:If it's Crawford vs Douglas, I'm taking Crawford

This has more to with getting more assets cheap. Knicks can't really sell teams on TD since he hasn't done anything but Crawful was a 6th man of the year.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#607 » by Falstaffxx » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:49 pm

KnicksFan007 wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:
Knicker23 wrote:People who would turn down Crawford are still in the pre-Chandler mindset days of not getting all we can get.... If Bibby is available, you get him in our situation.... If Crawford is available, you get him in our situation...... JJ and Baron as well [probably more so than Crawford]... Just like the Heat.


Bibby was a vet minimum signing. Crawford is a trade so you have to weigh the value of what we'd be giving up.

Exactly but we don't know what we are giving up and if It's Toney then it isn't much and people already tried trading him in different senarios on this board already. So, It's a moot argument to hate a trade involving him now.

I could understand if it involves more than Douglas and someone like Fields or something but If your getting a Sixth man then you cannot argue that it betters the team.


Not sure what you're getting at. We tried to trade him therefore not wanting to trade him for a specific player is moot?
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#608 » by TrueWarrior » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:49 pm

Im good either way on this though. Jamal and Toney are very close when you factor in age, defense, and 3pt shooting going in Toneys favor. You dont know Toney could surprise us as the 3rd option. He will never be a true PG but perhaps his injury last year really hampered him. I just think Jamal is better, and Toney's defense is getting overrated now.

Jamal went for 23, 25, 23, and 25 ptsin the first 4 games of the Magic series in only about 30 minutes. Meanwhile Dougie completely folded against Boston on both ends. Crawford had a sh*tty series against the BUlls but then again so did his whole team. This would be the biggest swaying point for me. Crawford is just more ready to win now and is more of a reliable scoring option to handle the load in big games. Get rid of the stigma of his time in NY, no matter how deep it is, and see Crawoford for who he is. One of the best 6th men in the league.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#609 » by The_Philosopher » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:49 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:If we trade Toney, who starts then?


Mike Bibby, Jamal Crawford starting back court would be awesome.

I can't wait to recreate that famous Hawks duo.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#610 » by Thugger HBC » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:50 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:Whether or not to trade Douglas for Crawford doesn't have anything to do with whether you want Douglas as starting point guard.


I have said Toney won't have the ball, so it has zero to with me personally.

Melo will be running the offense.

The discussion of Jamal Crawford is the conception that he WOULD be replacing TD as the starter, whereas I believe he is best as the sixth man.

If we trade Toney, who starts then?

Who cares, they won't have the ball.

My thinking is if they get Crawford, he goes sixth man, and we still have the mini mle for a pg.

I thinking folks are taking "starter" too serious.

It's minute management, just because a player starts means virtually nothing.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#611 » by Li'l Penny » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:50 pm

The_Philosopher wrote:
Rasho Brezec wrote:If we trade Toney, who starts then?


Mike Bibby, Jamal Crawford starting back court would be awesome.

I can't wait to recreate that famous Hawks duo.

We can sign Curry again after he gets waived and call ourselves the Baby Bulls.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#612 » by Jstarks3 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:50 pm

The_Philosopher wrote:
Knicker23 wrote:How could you possibly say we need more defense when the only offense we have is Melo and Amare?

Crawford has the potential to go for 35 in a playoff game, come up in a big spot and get us a W. That is worth bringing him in for.

You can make all the erroneous 'Isaiah move' connections ya want, we'd need him, hopefully off the bench, come playoffs.


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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#613 » by Thugger HBC » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:51 pm

TrueWarrior wrote:Im good either way on this though. Jamal and Toney are very close when you factor in age, defense, and 3pt shooting going in Toneys favor. You dont know Toney could surprise us as the 3rd option. He will never be a true PG but perhaps his injury last year really hampered him. I just think Jamal is better, and Toney's defense is getting overrated now.

Jamal went for 23, 25, 23, and 25 ptsin the first 4 games of the Magic series in only about 30 minutes. Meanwhile Dougie completely folded against Boston on both ends. Crawford had a sh*tty series against the BUlls but then again so did his whole team. This would be the biggest swaying point for me. Crawford is just more ready to win now and is more of a reliable scoring option to handle the load in big games. Get rid of the stigma of his time in NY, no matter how deep it is, and see Crawoford for who he is. One of the best 6th men in the league.


Stop, your making sense.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#614 » by NoMoreThrees » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:51 pm

The_Philosopher wrote:Barea and Crawford would be one of the worst defensive back courts in the league.


shumperts and fields one of the worst offensive back courts in league too. so somethin gotta give somehow here. and dougie defense way overrate he isnt that good. he tries which is great but he just isnt that good at it anyways. and we do need more scoring. amare and melo are the only guys on the whole roster that can score. we need another. craw would do it. craw great to take pressure off amare and melo. craw break down defense and lob to chandler or hit amare cutting or melo open 16 feet out. money. money!!!!
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#615 » by Falstaffxx » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:52 pm

TrueWarrior wrote:Im good either way on this though. Jamal and Toney are very close when you factor in age, defense, and 3pt shooting going in Toneys favor. You dont know Toney could surprise us as the 3rd option. He will never be a true PG but perhaps his injury last year really hampered him. I just think Jamal is better, and Toney's defense is getting overrated now.

Jamal went for 23, 25, 23, and 25 ptsin the first 4 games of the Magic series in only about 30 minutes. Meanwhile Dougie completely folded against Boston on both ends. This would be the biggest swaying point for me. Crawford is just more ready to win now and is more of a reliable scoring option to handle the load in big games. Get rid of the stigma of his time in NY, no matter how deep it is, and see Crawoford for who he is. One of the best 6th men in the league.


They are probably close. I can see the upside of Crawford, although I prefer Douglas. If we trade Douglas for Crawford our need for another point guard increases though. Douglas played some point for us last year. Crawford is less of a point guard than he is. Maybe we'll hear something on Barea soon, although that seems like a long-shot to me.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#616 » by Jstarks3 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:52 pm

The_Philosopher wrote:Barea and Crawford would be one of the worst defensive back courts in the league.



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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#617 » by method » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:53 pm

I would love getting Jamal as a 6th man....I just dont see it happening at least not with the sign and trade they mentioned.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#618 » by Falstaffxx » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:53 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:Who cares, they won't have the ball.

My thinking is if they get Crawford, he goes sixth man, and we still have the mini mle for a pg.

I thinking folks are taking "starter" too serious.

It's minute management, just because a player starts means virtually nothing.


Crawford is not going to be sixth man behind Fields, who is a small forward, or Shumpert, who is a rookie. Crawford would start.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#619 » by KnicksScholar24 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:54 pm

I am torn with trading Balkman, Walker, & Douglas for Crawford. If they Knicks are seriously trying to built a culture of defense, they can't trade two of their better defensive reserves (Douglas & Balkman) for a offense-only player like Crawford. But as far as talent and name recognition, Crawford beat those other players so he become a better trade asset for NY to have, in case they decide to go after Howard in the future.

    Pros:
    Proven NBA talent
    Scoring insurance if Melo or Stoudemire miss time
    Versatility to play SG and some PG
    Good at throwing the alley-oops pass (which is an asset with Chandler & Amar'e)
    Excels in the 6th-man role
    The Knicks will have probably the best scoring power in the league with Stoudemire, Anthony, & Crawford
    Classy guy/solid locker-room presence

    Cons:
    His nickname was Crawful for a reason
    Poor perimeter defender (although now he has some Bigs to protect the paint)
    Inefficient chucker
    Will lose defensive pieces to add him
    Not capable of starting full-time at PG
    Will likely take PT from Shumpert and Fields
    Will likely hinder the building of defensive culture

Tough decision, but seeing how D'Antoni is unlikely to have played Balkman anyway, Douglas is no more capable of playing the starting PG than Crawford, and Jamal is an upgrade offensively to Billy Walker, I am leaning toward bring Crawful back (assuming that is the correct package going out). I can't believe I'm co-signing this very Isiah-esque move. The years and size of the contract will also matter. The Knicks better not give up any draft picks or money, which they seem to always do. If any additional assets are trading hands, Atlanta should have to give up second round pick or Magnum Rolle or Charles Garcia or something, since they obviously weren't going to re-sign Crawford and the Knicks are giving them their starting PG.
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Re: Knicks emerge as front runners for Jamal Crawford? 

Post#620 » by 2010 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:54 pm

TrueWarrior wrote:Im good either way on this though. Jamal and Toney are very close when you factor in age, defense, and 3pt shooting going in Toneys favor. You dont know Toney could surprise us as the 3rd option. He will never be a true PG but perhaps his injury last year really hampered him. I just think Jamal is better, and Toney's defense is getting overrated now.

Jamal went for 23, 25, 23, and 25 ptsin the first 4 games of the Magic series in only about 30 minutes. Meanwhile Dougie completely folded against Boston on both ends. Crawford had a sh*tty series against the BUlls but then again so did his whole team. This would be the biggest swaying point for me. Crawford is just more ready to win now and is more of a reliable scoring option to handle the load in big games. Get rid of the stigma of his time in NY, no matter how deep it is, and see Crawoford for who he is. One of the best 6th men in the league.


*bingo*

We're no longer in a position to wait and hope guys develop. We're going the proven route. You guys wanted a winner right? You wanted to compete with the championship contending teams right? Well we can't be praying young guys step up anymore. We're going after dudes we know won't shrink in the heat of the moment.

Melo > Gallo
T. Chandler > D. Jordan
M. Bibby > A. Rautins
J. Crawford > T. Douglas

See any trend here, fellas?
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